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Author: Subject: Thinking locost.
dhutch

posted on 13/2/08 at 01:44 PM Reply With Quote
Thinking locost.

Few more questions on my quest to own a seven.

First one is something ive always thought about, and its prompted this post.

quote:
Originally posted by iankCars that are used regularly in all weathers or kept outside will deteriorate quite quickly. A car that's kept in a dry garage and only taken out on sunny Sundays and the occasional trackday will last almost indefinitely.


Obviously most locosts, as well as many other kit cars, are built with a mild steel chassis. Painted somehow, on the outside. And then clad in aluminium and or grp (or crp) body work. Usually attached by being riveted though the sidewall of the chassis members.

So you have a mild steel chassis, painted, possibly not very well, on the outside only, with a load of holes in it, and a load of aluminium body work, and option for chaffing between the two as well.

Find in the dry. But getting it wet sounds like a bit of a recipe for corrosion.
- Dissimilar metals, unprotected mild steel in areas that may well not dry out very well, inside of members etc. And if your lucky, some road salt too. And this even if you keep in undercover.

I believe a number of chassis now are stainless steel. Which is maybe a good idea, assuming its a suitable grade and correctly welded.
- Other people get the chassis powder coated, or even galvanised?
- You can used anodised aluminium panels maybe. Or just all plastic, although with aluminium rivets i presume?

Im just thinking out loud really.

I would have my seven as a second car. But i wouldn't want to feel i couldn't get it out when i wanted to, for fear of getting it it wet. (i have friends with classic mini's).
- And although i have access to garage space at home quite a lot of the time, that cant be guaranteed. Especially as and when i have the car at uni with my (3rd 4th year student).

*Edited for spelling, 23 corrections made.

Cheers, Daniel.

[Edited on 13/2/08 by dhutch]

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nitram38

posted on 13/2/08 at 01:51 PM Reply With Quote
You are thinking too deeply about this!
If you want a car, build one out of steel and use blind rivets on the aluminium panels. Paint the whole thing.
Steel, simply because it has some flex.
Stainless is very hard and apart from drilling issues, will flex and crack.
Aluminium is worse than stainless for cracking.
Unless you have an bottomless wallet, stick to the steel version and invest your money in a decent garage!

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iank

posted on 13/2/08 at 01:59 PM Reply With Quote
Galv can twist even a land rover chassis so isn't really suitable for thin tube chassis IMO.
Also be careful of powdercoat - it's great until water gets underneath and then it will allow the chassis to rust quickly, it then falls off in sheets.

Waxoyl is probably the best protection for the chassis (inject through the rivet holes before pulling them in).
I've chosen POR-15 undercoat and I'm going to be putting on some nice ex-nato paint to protect that. But painting a spaceframe is a complete PITA.





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Anonymous

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nick205

posted on 13/2/08 at 02:11 PM Reply With Quote
Mild steel chasis is the proven way to go for this type of car for ease of construction and fatigue strength amongst other reasons.

If you're worried about corrosion...

1. Paint the chasis properly ensuring the best possible key to the bare metal.

2. Use blind rivets and PU sealant/adhesive to attached aluminium and GRP panels - nothing should chaf if it's secured properly.

3. Apply WaxOyl to the inside of all the tubes when you drill for rivets.

4. Apply some underbody sealer to any exposed areas underneath the car.

5. Keep it clean.

That's about the best you can do IMHO.

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nib1980

posted on 13/2/08 at 02:12 PM Reply With Quote
It's only cost's 128 in materials for a new chassis, just build a new one??
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tegwin

posted on 13/2/08 at 02:13 PM Reply With Quote
Dont make a stainless chassis unless you know what you are doing..

It will become brittle on welds, crack and kill you...


My chassis is stainless and its a pain in the backside drilling holes in it....





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02GF74

posted on 13/2/08 at 02:16 PM Reply With Quote
don't worry about it - nothing lasts forever.
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James

posted on 13/2/08 at 02:24 PM Reply With Quote
Agreed, just don't worry about it.

You be bored of it and sell it, or want to re-chassis it or something before it gets any where near rusting away.

Although I've not driven it all last year, mine has done 2000miles, mostly in the very wet Nov' 2006 cos my tin top was off the road.

Nothing has rusted that I can tell!

Cheers,
James

P.S. As a test, leave a piece if 1.6mm steel outside in the rain.... see how long it takes before it's structurally unsound....





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onzarob

posted on 13/2/08 at 02:24 PM Reply With Quote
I think the motto is, Enjoy building it enjoy wearing it out!!!

Waxoil is friend.


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eznfrank

posted on 13/2/08 at 02:29 PM Reply With Quote
I think I'd be more worried about it getting robbed at Uni?
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dhutch

posted on 13/2/08 at 03:27 PM Reply With Quote
Right ok.

I wouldnt say ive been thinking too hard about it, just really probing the ground, and trying to find out the general consensous/thoughts.

Im planning to buy a second hand car, so wouldnt as such have any control over how it was done, paint used, quality of preperation, method of pannel attachment, etc.

As i say, im just trying to get the feel of of it.
- In terms of it geting nicked at uni, it'll be fine...
- No, serously, we have secure (6ft solid gate and wall) offraod parking for 2-3cars. That was a requirment of the house, :p


Daniel

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dhutch

posted on 13/2/08 at 03:40 PM Reply With Quote
But yeah, the current train of thought is that i could get a 750mc spec locost.
- Obviously that imposes a number of limitations, such as engine (1.3 xcrossflow), brakes, tyres even, no lsd, 6point rollcage, etc.
- Which certainly rules out having a bec, and anything other than a locost. And i would be interested in people thoughts.

However maybe its not such a bad thing. Keep the engine managable, keep me inside a rollcage, and on what i beleave are fairly progressive tyres.

And you seam to be able to buy a feasable car for around my current planned budget of 4k ish. And give me a serous bit of playtime for weekends, a very track able car, and the possabilty of racing relativly cheaply in the future if i wanted to, sharing a number of weekends with my cousins saxmax events.

I also quite like the more rustic/classic look is thats the right way of putting it.
- The mega clean lines of the mnr pannels and inboard shocks is very appealing, as is the idea of a bec.
- But its realistical out of buget i think, as are the roundier plasticly looking westfields, and the tigars with the odd looking (to my mind) bonnet.

Alternativly i dont know. Robin hood 2b anyone?

I dont know! As i say, im just knocking (lots) of ideas round in my (fairly small) head, and trying to see how the thing might work out.


Cheers. Daniel.

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Canada EH!

posted on 13/2/08 at 03:43 PM Reply With Quote
Thinking locost

Hence the reason for an industry of people manufacturing new chassis for Lotus 6,7,9.11.
All kidding aside, there was a method used in the aircraft industry of old when fusalage's were made out of steel and covered in fabric or aluminum.
Upon completion of the framework linseed oil was blown into the interior of the tubes by means of a system much like the auto oiler for air tools.
To assist in this holes were drilled to connect all of the blocked passages then later closed with rivets.
JUST make sure you are finished welding when you do this, or you will have constructed an incendury device.

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onzarob

posted on 13/2/08 at 04:30 PM Reply With Quote
A Robin Hood 2b would be a good choice because of the weather gear thats available and you can get a very tidy car for 4K
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xxx

posted on 13/2/08 at 05:31 PM Reply With Quote
Hey Daniel, Im at Loughborough Uni and my home is Cheshire (Chester) and I have a 750mc spec road-going Locost (1.3 xflow) so we've got a lot in common! The locost is at home (Chester) but Id be up for taking you for a spin, showing you round it etc over easter or something. Where abouts in Cheshire are you? Are you doing automotive engineering?

Drop me an email mate: colin4696@hotmail.com

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zilspeed

posted on 13/2/08 at 08:06 PM Reply With Quote
Feel free to flame me, but I don't mean this in a mean spirited way at all, so I apologise if that's how it comes across.

Anyway, to the point.

WTF happened to decent spelling with you young whippersnappers ?
Seriously, does it not have an effect on your marks any more ?
I know it certainly did when I were a lad.

Right flame away, I'm sure I deserve it.

John F - regular typos a feature






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dhutch

posted on 13/2/08 at 10:03 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by xxx
Hey Daniel, Im at Loughborough Uni and my home is Cheshire (Chester) and I have a 750mc spec road-going Locost (1.3 xflow) so we've got a lot in common! The locost is at home (Chester) but Id be up for taking you for a spin, showing you round it etc over easter or something. Where abouts in Cheshire are you? Are you doing automotive engineering?

Drop me an email mate: colin4696@hotmail.com
Ah, wow, yeah.
- I live near tarporley, just off the a49.
- And i do mech eng at loughborough.

Im currently in uttoxeter on a 15month placement with jcb between second and third year. (Good money, good experience, but wee poor holidays).

Ive added you on msn if thats ok, im on danielhutch=at=hotmail=co=uk

But yeah, sounds excellent. Im very jealous!



Daniel

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dhutch

posted on 13/2/08 at 11:27 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by zilspeed
Feel free to flame me, but I don't mean this in a mean spirited way at all, so I apologise if that's how it comes across.

Anyway, to the point.

WTF happened to decent spelling with you young whippersnappers ?
Seriously, does it not have an effect on your marks any more ?
I know it certainly did when I were a lad.

Right flame away, I'm sure I deserve it.

John F - regular typos a feature

Yeah sorry, its probably shocking.
- Post of my mosts are sent at work atm, where im trying not to make it too obvious, and i dont have a spellchecker add-on. Couple that with naturally shocking spelling, dyslexia, lack of proof reading, and that fact that in my dyslexiacated mind it looks fine... Urrmm yeah, no, theres no real excuse. But yeah, teenagers of the world eh! Stun them all with high frequency sirens i say!

Hutch. (runs off to run posts though smell chequer)

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Simon

posted on 16/2/08 at 08:07 PM Reply With Quote
If corrosion is a worry for you, then you could also finish (all brackets fitted, all holes drilled) your chassis and get it galvanised. As for the different metals rubbing together (eg ally and steel), I'm sure you could buy some thin rubber to line the panels with before fitting.

Or get it all gold plated

ATB

Simon






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dhutch

posted on 18/2/08 at 02:51 PM Reply With Quote
Im proberbly worrying about nothing i guess.


Anyway, i went over to worxs (steves) on sunday and we had another good talk about cars. And he took me out for a spin up the road and back, with promise of a 'proper' drive when its a bit warmer.
- Ties in with the origanal as well, because hes car had been outside in all weathers for a year now, and is frankly fine for it. Although of cause im there are less well finished cars out there that would fair less well!

He was also pointing out the diffrence between well setup, well thought out car. And one that looks bascaly the same, thats not half the car the other is.
- All the little things like upgraded brakes/disks/shocks and having all the suspention geometry set up right.
- Might not look like a massive amount, and might not add a massive amount to the price even. But makes the diffrence between a good car and a bad car



Daniel

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2b_pablo

posted on 18/2/08 at 03:41 PM Reply With Quote
you could have my car for 4k, stainless monocoque chassis

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b72/paulmckernon/kitcar/07rebuild/Image010.jpg





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if it aint broke... pull it off and upgrade it!

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