big_wasa
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| posted on 12/5/08 at 08:43 PM |
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zx12r engine / ignition question
Ive been offered a new toy
Question does the above engine need the key to run ? does it have security like the honda hiss system.
Whats a very keen price for an engine that you cant see run ?
Anything to look for ?
cheers chaps 
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minitici
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| posted on 12/5/08 at 08:53 PM |
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IIRC if you can source a US spec ECU it does not have the immobiliser......
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big_wasa
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| posted on 12/5/08 at 08:58 PM |
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does that mean the uk one does ? can it be bypassed ?
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carlgeldard
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| posted on 12/5/08 at 09:28 PM |
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You don't need the clocks or ingition barrel. All you need is a 100 ohm resistor in the gray wire from the ignition switch connector to the ecu.
The grand total of 18p from maplins
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big_wasa
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| posted on 12/5/08 at 09:31 PM |
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its got the clocks nice one 
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worX
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| posted on 13/5/08 at 05:26 AM |
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And if you don't have a Maplins near you, send me a U2U and I'll post you one...
Steve 
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thomas4age
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| posted on 13/5/08 at 10:48 AM |
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also you should bypass the side stand switch, otherwise the startgr motor won;t run, the switch is to ground.
wire should be green/white at the switch and the same at the fusebox end. cut it and attatch to ground.
other than that and the 100ohm inbetween the grey wire and 12v supply
there's nothing wiring wise.
only tip remaining is to open up the black square box called tilt sensor (at the battery box) hold it upright and put a dosh of glue in it to keep the
trigger wheel from moving. there's an arrow on the box which points upwards.
Grtz Thomas
If Lucas made guns, Wars wouldn't start either.
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carlgeldard
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| posted on 13/5/08 at 09:16 PM |
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Right this was taken from a thread on the yahoo BEC site some time ago and it is what I used and I found it to be correct
Riight! That's a big question.
And let me say that I'm doing all this from memory, so you WILL need a
circuit diagram.
I have a fairly poor scanned one that I got from a guy on ebay for a
couple of quid as part of a CD based dealer workshop manual. I can send
you a copy if you like
Firstly the bike loom is actually in effect two looms; the main bike power
loom that powers, lights, indicators, clocks, switch gear etc etc and the
engine management loom which runs the engine. The difficulty is that all
the wires are mixed together in the same cable bundles, and the two looms
intersect at key places like the fuse box and the multi way connectors. MY
objective (as I'm a racer and very weight sensitive) is to remove
everything I don't need to run the engine, including all the extraneous
cables and connectors, if you're not comfortable doing this then you can
leave much of the unneeded stuff in the loom.
Before you get started you'll need at least two other items.
A hardback notebook A4 size. Use this to make a note of EVERY change you
make to the loom, what you cut out, what you connected together, the wire
colours and most importantly why you did it.
Secondly get yourself one of those little dymo labellers for 20 quid. the
plastic labels are much more resilient than paper ones. Label everything
as you identify it, and leave the labels on the wires when you cut stuff
out, label both the bit that is left and the bit you cut out in case you
need it again. Bind the labels into the finished loom, they'll be
invaluable when you make modifications later.
Ok lets get started, my personal preference is to reduce the loom to an
engine only management loom, and build a completely separate loom for
other the car systems like lights etc So I have ignition switches, fuses
and start buttons that are external to the bike loom. This is because the
bike loom will never be long enough, or have the correct current rating to
drive the normal car systems. All you'll then need is to feed a switched
and unswitched supply into your management loom from the main car fuse
board. and pull out things like the tacho feed for the instruments, start
button and FI warning light.
So lets get started.
Find the section in the workshop manual that details the electronic
ignition system. This section has a dedicated circuit diagram that
details only those bits of the loom that make the engine run. In my
manual it's on page 2-22.
Now find and locate all of the sensors that are on the engine. These are
relatively easy as they will all be (bar the inlet air temp sensor)
attached via one of the two big square multi way yellow and black
plugs. The best way to do this is to find a likely looking plug, count
the number of connections and identify the wire colours, cross refer to
the circuit diagram and the EFI section of the manual and you should be
able to positively identify the use of each plug. Incidentally the EFI
section of the manual also includes troubleshooting data which gives the
individual circuit diagram for each sensor and this can help enormously.
Label everything! If not sure put a ? on the label. eg Throttle Pos??
You're looking for
4x 2 way connectors to the stick coils,
A separate injector loom (usually attached to the throttle bodies)
The side stand switch (or the connector to it),
Crank angle sensor connector(2way)
Cam sensor connector (2way)
Water temp sensor connector(triangular and easy to spot)
Throttle pos connector (3 way)
Inlet air pressure connector +sensor (3way) and identical to throttle pos
only a different colour plastic plug. These two are in close proximity
and will cross connect onto the wrong sensor. Get it wrong and you'll
blow up the pressure sensor so check the wire colours and clearly label.
(50+ quid penalty for getting it wrong)
Gear selection switch (easy to see as it's a separate yellow\black
multiway plug)
The engine subloom is pretty straight forward, the only complexity is that
there are some additional connectors which you don't need for the Fan,
horns, and headlight relay I think. Again check the wire colours and just
label them up (preferably in a different colour)
Now things get a bit less easy.
Outside of the engine sub loom you'll also need to identify and label
The Main ECU connectors (x2)
An atmospheric pressure sensor + connector (3way)
Inlet air temp (2 way) (actually this sensor is located in air intake
below the fuel tank and is often missed by breakers so make sure you get
it). plug it into the appropriate plug so you don't lose it.
fuel pump * level sensor (3way)
The ECU shorting plug (looks like a multi way blanked off connector)
The main fuse box multi way connectors
The bike down sensor (a big black box found in the battery compartment
with a rotating disk inside, a picture is on my site)
The handlebar clutch switch connector.
The connector for the clocks, and on this the wires that feed the tacho
and the FI warning light.
The FI diagnostic plug. You can connect one of the cores on this to earth
to trigger a diagnostic sequence. Handy in the paddock and worth adding a
push button to do this
Lastly identify the connectors that feed to handlebar switches.
Label everything up, and cross check the wire colours with the circuit
diagram.
I think that should be everything on the engine management side, so
whatever is left is simply driving ancillary systems. Now refer to the
main wiring diagrams later in the manual and label everything else up,
crosschecking the number of ways and wire colours in each connector.
Be warned by the way that the wiring diagrams colour codes are fairly non
intuitive so find the list in the manual of what they mean, write it out
and stick it prominently in front of you when working on the loom.
So you've got every connector labelled now? Cross check and make the
effort to chase up anything you can't find or positively identify..
This whole process will take about 2-3 nights, a few glasses of wine and
an indulgent wife as the loom is invariably grotty and the kitchen table
is simply the best place to perform this work.
One other piece of complexity is that you may have an aftermarket anti
theft device bodged into the loom. These typically have a power connector
(usually unswitched) and will cut a couple of ECU controls lines typically
the power to the ECU and probably power to the stick coils. Find where it
has been spliced into the system, label the ends and remove it. Then
refer to the EFI circuit diagram and reconnect the cut ends.
Right now for the conversion process. something worth knowing is that
Black\Yellow wires are always earth.
1) Find all your ancillary connectors (the ones for non engine management
bits) and trace the wires, you'll often find that these circuits simple
run from say the headlamp connector back to the fuse box or a
switched\unswitched supply. Strip the covering off the loom and trace the
wires. when you are sure you've got the right wires, and that no other
wires connect to it on route, cut the wire away at the fuse box end, or at
the nearest unidentified intersection. Always leave a couple of inches
of cut end left (in case you need to rejoin it after a mistake) make a
note of what you did and why and don’t forget to label the ends. If the
unneeded wires pass through one of the nice yellow and black connectors,
leave at least six inches on either side, and label them as unused. If
you need to run extra wires to the engine such as for instrumentation
sensors these extra free connections through the multiway connectors are
very useful to allow you to make neat engine bay connections
2)Eventually you'll have got rid of the stuff you don't need and be left
with just a few wires in the connectors.
3)Ok next we need to identify the main engine management power feeds. In
my loom plain white wires are unswitched feeds and the Big thick white
ones are the main high current ones.
One of these will be a thick white wire... this is the unswitched
permanent power feed to the engine management system. It goes from the
battery box connection, branches to feed pin 43 on the ECU providing
power for the main ECU ,the fuel pump relays and ends up connecting to
the handlebar ignition switch. After passing through the ignition switch
it becomes a Switched feed and returns to the fuse box on a brown wire.
The white wire is also where the alternator output can be connected too (2
white wires) or the alty output can be attached direct to the battery
Identify and clearly label these lines. I use a separate fuse box where
all my fuses are located and a separate ignition switch so I provide power
to these cables directly and can dispense with the bike fuse box. I power
the unswitched feed direct from the battery via my FIA cut off switch and
a 15 amp fuse and the switched feed via the ignition switch and a 10 amp
fuse in the main fuse box. If you use this method you can cut out the
cables to the handlebar switch and just connect to these feeds directly
from your external car fuses.
At the bike fuse box the switched feed goes through a 10 amp fuse and
becomes a fused +switched feed coloured brown\white. I simply connect the
brown and brown + white together and connect them to my external switched
feed from the main car loom. Remember that this is already protected by a
10 amp fuse. The unswitched feed no longer needs to go via the battery
box relay and so can be cut off at it's first intersection with the loom,
and the handle bar connectors can be cut away after you've defeated the
anti theft system.
3) The Starter relay. Again I use a standard car starter relay rather than
the bike relay. This is to allow me to easily replace it when it fails
( and they do) I simply have a push button on the dash which proves a
switched 12v feed to the solenoid and this switches the main power line
that feeds the starter motor. You'll also need to connect ECU line pin 28
(detect start button pushed) to the switched output of this button so the
ECU knows that you're trying to start the beast and will run the fuel
pumps.
4) Theft deterrent. There is a grey wire on the handlebar switchgear that
attaches to ECU pin 39. This wire should be connected to the 10amp
protected switched power feed. and it needs a 100 ohm resister in it to
defeat the antitheft\hotwire system.
5) Safety interlocks. You cannot start the bike engine unless its in
neutral, the side stand is up, the clutch lever is pulled etc etc. Around
the bike there are a bunch of switches that sense the positions of all
these components The fuse box contains a set of diodes that force all of
these signals together to feed ecu pin 24 (i think). IOf anyone of these
interlocks fails then the line will be floating at around 5v. When it’s
safe to start the bike the interlock sense line will be connected to earth
so all of the interlocks can be defeated by tying this one line to
earth. Then you can then remove the interlock wiring. But do not remove
the gear selection\neutral sense wires which are green, and in fact you
can use the Neutral wire to drive a dash neutral warning light in exactly
the same way as the FI warning light below.
6)Bike down switch. This kills the engine should you drop the bike. Not
needed in a car and likely to kill the engine unexpectedly on the track.
Defeat this by filling it full or areldite in the up position.
7) Kill switch. The kill switch provides power from the brown\white fused
10 amp switched ignition line to the red power line that feeds the coils.
You can either keep the switch and connect it via an FIA kill switch on
the car or simply remove it and connect the red and Br\W lines together.
On my racer the FIA switch interrupts the main ECU power line to kill the
engine anyway
8) I run separate control switches for my fuel pump so that i can kill
the pumps in the racer as required by the regs. Be warned however that
the ECU senses that the relays are operating correctly or it will throw an
error code, so if you do this make sure you do it with a high currrent
switch which breaks the main power line to the fuel pumps, not on the
relay coil circuit which is where the ECU senses the relay operation.
9) With all these mods in place you can junk the bike fuse box, the
handlebar switches, the starter relay and battery box + all the unused
associated cables and connectors.
10) Connect the ECU warning light via a suitable 12v diode, this is a
switched to earth light meaning that you'll have to feed the diode 12v,
and connect its output to ECU pin 33. The ECU will earth the line
completing the circuit and light the diode when required.
Then you can plug it all together and check it out.
Normal ECU operation is as follows.
Ignition On
ECU light on for 2 secs.
Fuel pumps run for 2-3 secs then stop
Warning light goes out and stays out.
Hit start button.
Fuel pumps run and engine starts.
If start fails, fuel pumps stop when button is released.
This I think is all the major mods that I made, once you've completed
these you'll be able to read the diagrams well enough to sort things out
yourself anyway.
BTW my engine was from a 2000 A1 zx12r so you'll need to check yours and
get an appropriate diagram. The wire colours and connections may have
changes, but I hope you can see the logic involved.
I hope this helps
Carl
[Edited on 13/5/08 by carlgeldard]
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carlgeldard
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| posted on 13/5/08 at 09:22 PM |
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Some more help here
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big_wasa
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| posted on 13/5/08 at 10:01 PM |
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wow cheers
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carlgeldard
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| posted on 14/5/08 at 07:01 AM |
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Yes I know it made my life easy. Top bloke that rgb racer Adrian Moore.
This is a good site aswell
[Edited on 14/5/08 by carlgeldard]
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carlgeldard
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| posted on 14/5/08 at 07:14 AM |
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You might need to see this to work out were the 100 ohm resistor goes (PIN39)
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thomas4age
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| posted on 16/5/08 at 10:43 AM |
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I have made an in colour wiring diagramm for mountening this engine in a sylva striker race-car.
it's however to large to put up in my album.
grtz Thomas
If Lucas made guns, Wars wouldn't start either.
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thomas4age
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| posted on 16/5/08 at 11:02 AM |
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Ah well Half the size works!
http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/upload/Kawasaki%20ZX12R%20[compleet].JPG
good luck, I had two, one required to ground the Green wire at the fuse box, the other one didn't I don't know why.
good luck
grtz Thomas
If Lucas made guns, Wars wouldn't start either.
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