DIY Si
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 posted on 22/6/08 at 05:15 PM |
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Alfa V6 in rwd set up
Evening all. I've been over to one of the Alfa forums, but they don't appear to be quite as adventurous as we all are here with doing
silly things with engines. Those of you that either have done so, or know much about doing so, what if any mods are required to put the Alfa 2.5 24V
V6 in a seven? For example, is a winged sump or a baffle required, or is the cooling system a bugger when standard? Anything at all will help me!
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Humbug
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| posted on 22/6/08 at 05:36 PM |
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Doing a search for "Alfa V6" would be a start - plenty of posts on here.
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Volvorsport
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| posted on 22/6/08 at 05:37 PM |
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use an alfa 75 , they were rwd , altho with a transaxle , couple of guys on here are doing it .
www.dbsmotorsport.co.uk
getting dirty under a bus
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DIY Si
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| posted on 22/6/08 at 05:51 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Volvorsport
use an alfa 75 , they were rwd , altho with a transaxle , couple of guys on here are doing it .
Would do, but I already have a quite cheap V6 sat at home! I also wanted the 24V engine to start with so that any upgrades or engine swaps are a bit
easier.
The searches I have done either just show up my own threads, or don't say much about what mods have been done. Or, I'm not much good at
using the search facility! 
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clairetoo
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| posted on 22/6/08 at 06:05 PM |
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I looked into putting an Alfa V6 into my fury a while ago - there was an Alfa with a V6 (2.5) with a RWD gearbox back in the `70's , I tried to
find out more from the Alfa owners club and they had never heard of it 
There is a guy who has used this set-up in a Dax here
Its cuz I is blond , innit
Claire xx
Will weld for food......
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DIY Si
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| posted on 22/6/08 at 06:17 PM |
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There was the Alfa 6, but they had the 12V, and I don't know how similar the block is. The gearboxes are also rare and since I want to tune the
24V, I may well just end up destroying a rare expensive gearbox.
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ettore bugatti
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| posted on 22/6/08 at 06:23 PM |
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Hmm, I think all rwd Alfa V6 have transaxle gearboxes + de Dion axle.
Perhaps the Alfa Rio box is a possibility
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Schrodinger
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| posted on 22/6/08 at 07:33 PM |
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From memory the rwd Alfa has the box at the rear.
You MAY have to get the crank bored to take a spigot bearing as some of the fwd engines don't have the hole.
The bellhousing could be a problem.
Search out Owelly on here as he has put an Alfa V6 in something
Keith
Aviemore
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DIY Si
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| posted on 22/6/08 at 08:03 PM |
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Owelly and Johnmor have both done it, but they also both used the earlier 3 litre 12v V6. It may be there's no difference between the two
engines, but since I don't know for sure........
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clairetoo
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| posted on 22/6/08 at 09:32 PM |
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Well.............it seems you have to do what I did - sit your chosen engine and gearbox in the middle of the garage floor and figure out how to bolt
them together 
If no one has done used the 24 valve motor before then its up to you to blaze that trail.....
Its cuz I is blond , innit
Claire xx
Will weld for food......
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DIY Si
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| posted on 22/6/08 at 09:53 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by clairetoo
Well.............it seems you have to do what I did - sit your chosen engine and gearbox in the middle of the garage floor and figure out how to bolt
them together
If no one has done used the 24 valve motor before then its up to you to blaze that trail.....
Bugger it, I wanted an unusual but easy choice. Oh well, best figure out how to make a one off bell housing then.
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rachaeljf
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| posted on 23/6/08 at 12:37 PM |
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Simon,
The 12V and 24V bottom ends are the same for gearbox fitting purposes. I bought an "unfinished project", which included a 2.5 12V (ex 155)
and a 3.0 24V (ex 164) and an Alfa 155 in dozens of cardboard boxes! Both the engines have had the same gearbox fitted during the project, so I am
certain they are the same layout.
Cheers R
PS
[Edited on 23/6/08 by rachaeljf]
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Johnmor
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| posted on 24/6/08 at 06:44 PM |
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The Alfa 12v uses the same block as the 24v so the bellhousing will fit.
Its what you connect the bellhousing to that matters. I mated mine to a type 9 using the bellhousing from a front wheel drive 164 and then made a
conversion plate for a type 9 box. This keeps the hydraulic clutch and mechanism etc.
The electrics are simple for the 12v and the engine is sweet, very torquey but comes in with a fantastic howl around 4000revs. Makes a really quick
but easy to drive car (if a little noisy, so tempting to hear that howl).
I have lots of pics in my archive.
 
alfa engine
 
Engine in car 2
 
engine in
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DIY Si
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| posted on 24/6/08 at 06:55 PM |
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Cheers John. Your archive has been perused many times already! So you didn't do anything to the engine itself, just made up the plate and away
you went, as it where?
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Johnmor
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| posted on 24/6/08 at 09:34 PM |
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Thats about it, I used the sump from an Alfa 75, its designed for rear wheel drive and an upright engine. Aprt from that and a few miner things that
was it. You could modify the sump froma 155 or 164 if you cant get a 75 sump.
I also used the oil pump from 75 to suit the sump and thats driven by the drive from distributer on the front of the block, I may change mine as the
75 dizzy is in a better place to suit rear wheel drive.
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DIY Si
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| posted on 24/6/08 at 11:08 PM |
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Do you have to use the different oil pump? Just with mine being a 24V it doesn't have a dizzy, and I think the pump is chain driven.
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Johnmor
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| posted on 25/6/08 at 05:40 AM |
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I only chaned the pump because i used the 75 sump and the oil pickup matched the baffles in the sump, You may be able to simply swap the oil pick up
on the base of the existing pump or alter the baffles in the sump.
Im not sure how much ground clearance you have, I had to change my sump because the 75 sump is around 2" shorted than the standard 164 sump. You
may get away with keeping the existing sump ,then there is no problem except if the engine is mounted vertically the sump may be designed for the
engine sitting canted to one side. Did the engine come from a 156, I think it sat a little more upright than the 164.
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DIY Si
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| posted on 25/6/08 at 07:06 AM |
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It's from a 156. It's not quite upright, but I don't know how much difference there is between it and the 164 engine.
What have you done with regards to a spigot bearing? Is there one in the crank already, or will it need boring out to fit one?
[Edited on 25/6/08 by DIY Si]
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Trev Borg
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| posted on 25/6/08 at 07:17 AM |
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The main thing with the 24v would be clearance i would have thought.
I'm not sure what the exact width is of the 24v, but i have only got about 10mm clearance to the chassis rails on my Gemini with the 12v.
I suppose it depends on how high you sit the engine.
Mine sits low with a home made baffled and gated sump, with an accumulator.
Owelly has been running his with just a chopped sump, and no accumulator.
Before you judge a man, walk a mile in his shoes.
By that time, who cares.
You're a mile away, and you've got his shoes
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DIY Si
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| posted on 25/6/08 at 12:36 PM |
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The 24V isn't that much wider really. As long as I can get the manifolds to run in the right place it shouldn't matter. Hopefully.
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The Black Flash
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| posted on 26/6/08 at 08:47 PM |
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quote:
There is a guy who has used this set-up in a Dax here
Now that is exactly what I'm thinking of doing...looks like somebody got there first! Mind you I've spent weeks trying to work out if
the v6 would fit in a Dax Rush, so it's good to know it can.
Still at the drawing board stage myself, but I really fancy the idea of the alfa engine. Apart from the gearbox issue it seems like a good choice.
I'm thinking that an adaptor plate like John made is going to be the easiest way to go, rather than building a bellhousing, but then I've
never tried either!
There's a guy on the PPC forum (http://www.ppcmag.co.uk/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=1071&whichpage=2) who made a bellhousing from
strips of steel, interesting approach but it looks harder than a plate to me.
Oh and Hi BTW!
Andy
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rossnzwpi
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| posted on 1/11/08 at 01:00 AM |
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alfa v6 in locost rear gearbox
Hi, lots of info on the use of an Alfa V6 on this forum. I loved the sound and power delivery of my 164 12v. Don't underestimate 2 valve per
cylinder engines - they give more low rev torque.
In Sweden Ronny Norkvist has made a locost from scratch using the difficult to fit rear transaxle from an Alfa 75 (not much room behind the seat of a
locost!):
http://www.illustrera.se/konstruktion/2006-03/byggdagbok_200603.htm
Anyone got any experience with a Fiat Dino V6 ???
Cheers
Ross in NZ
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rossnzwpi
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| posted on 2/11/08 at 01:52 AM |
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alfa v6 and gearbox for rwd
Hi, the Dax link above shows a V6 from the early Alfa 6. It came with a ZF 5 speed and a separate Alfa bell housing. If you can find one of these it
would be an easy fit. These ZFs have lots of gearing options and are used on Maserati Biturbos (gearboxes quite cheap in USA - EBay). Fiat even had
a version of the ZF in their 2 litre twin cam 132 and GM in their Bedford vans!
Dino (Adelspyder) in South Australia made a custom sand cast bellhousing to mount a 164 V6 to an Alfa 105 gearbox and will make a kit up for people
doing the conversion. It is tailored to RHD though since he canted the engine over to fit in an Alfa Duetto Spider. The Alfa Spider conversion is
popular in USA too.
http://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/engine-conversions/38223-alfa-v6-into-73-spider.html
Cheers
Ross
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