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Author: Subject: another stealth tax?
02GF74

posted on 11/9/08 at 12:29 PM Reply With Quote
another stealth tax?

Gordon has announced measures of £910m aimed at helping people with soaring gas and electricity bills.
here

For which the big energy companies will pay for.

Right, so which do you think is the more likely:
1. Mr head fat cat at company XYZ is going to give up his jag and bonus and take a cut in salary
or
2. The price of leccy and gas will go up.



[Edited on 11/9/08 by 02GF74]






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meany

posted on 11/9/08 at 12:31 PM Reply With Quote
the price of electric and gas IS going up

we got out letter this morning from EON






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02GF74

posted on 11/9/08 at 12:37 PM Reply With Quote
bl**dy hell, that was quick!!!






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meany

posted on 11/9/08 at 12:40 PM Reply With Quote
or should i say, we got 2 letters from EON,in 2 envelopes,
1 for the electric and 1 for the gas, both letters saying the same thing, both also having the same leaflet about conserving energy....hows that for irony.






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owelly

posted on 11/9/08 at 01:18 PM Reply With Quote
The price of gas has increased by 245% since the year 2000. By the end of November, the total increase of wholesale gas will be 315% (since 2000).

The government were handing out money for companies to change to using gas on the premise that they would save money (as opposed to diesel fuel in the powerstation where I work). Now the cost of the £8million refurb (in 1999/2000) and change to gas will not be paid back for a very long time!!

But as we are now greener, we can sell the deficit of 'polution tokens' to companies who can't comply with the strict emission regulations!





http://www.ppcmag.co.uk

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nstrug

posted on 11/9/08 at 01:20 PM Reply With Quote
Salaries, even executive bonuses are a small part of an energy company's costs.

The money will come from raising prices and cutting reinvestment and dividends.

The increase in cost from the tax rise will be lost in the overall signal of massive wholesale price rises due to the global energy crisis, largely brought about by the rise of China and substantially by some very dodgy deals in the futures and derivatives markets.

Remember that energy retailers buy on the wholesale futures market, so although wholesale costs are now dropping, retail costs will probably rise for the next 6 months.

We also need to bear in mind that the UK has ransomed itself to Russia by the 'dash-to-gas': the obsession with building gas-powered powerstations, that we now have to buy gas from Russia to fuel as (British) North sea gas runs out.

The short term solution is to buy gas from Norway, who are less likely to be arseholes about it than the Russians.

The long term solution is massive investment in nuclear and renewable energy. We really need a new Manhattan Project or Apollo Project for energy, but there is no political will to do this.

Nick

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alistairolsen

posted on 11/9/08 at 01:35 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by nstrug


The money will come from raising prices and cutting reinvestment and dividends.


The long term solution is massive investment in nuclear and renewable energy. We really need a new Manhattan Project or Apollo Project for energy, but there is no political will to do this.

Nick


+1 except unless youre talking wave energy which hasnt yet been perfected, bin the renewables.

First step in the right direction is getting labour away to bleep like they should have been in 2001 after they failed to deliver anything except chaos at the end of their first term. Sadly the short sighted british voting minority allowed them another 8 years to financially ruin the country

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Moorron

posted on 11/9/08 at 02:08 PM Reply With Quote
I consider myself ‘doing well’ me and the missus pull in about 50K a year and my mortgage is at 42K on a 120K house with less than 15 years left. We both are good with money and don’t spend a lot on ourselves (except my car hobby). But with huge increases in daily running costs I am starting to ‘feel’ the effects and I also wince at how harder done people are going to cope.

I nearly threw my glass of morning juice at the tv this morning when watching the BBC news and some smug Minister was telling how you would save £250 a year if you insulate your walls and roof, yet its only available to those who are elderly or on benefits! What about everyone else who have done this in the past with their own money? What about when its fitted and they work out the cost increase is still higher than the saving from these great tips? Also wouldn’t it be best for the suppliers to just give the £250 to those who would save that amount? As it cuts out the insulation fitters who will be taking a cut from it all? I was angry and upset to see how he was so sure that this great idea was going to offset all our money problems in regards to living costs.

I caught up with an old friend the other day who now works in the gas storage industry building huge gas storage units. His company fits these to places like India and the like and when I asked him have you got orders for the uk thinking we are going to do something about it for the future he said ‘nope’. So even thought we know some of the problems are because we don’t store are own gas and have to buy it back from the EU, we aren’t even going to try and change it.

I get the impression the gas companies tried it on, got away with it and are know just doing what they want knowing nothing is going to stop them.

Regarding the OP, is this another stealth tax? I don’t think so, it’s just another idiotic jester by the government to make them feel they are doing something to help when infact if they opened their eyes it actually one of the worse things to do.

grrr

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Macbeast

posted on 11/9/08 at 03:13 PM Reply With Quote
Like many, I live in a flat in a 100-year old building.

So no loft to insulate, no cavity to insulate.

I replaced my boiler last year and I have double glazing, both at my own expense. Generally I can't claim any benefits: when I applied for jobseeker's allowance they said they calculated I could live on £57 a week and I was getting more than that on a bit of pension so sod off bloated plutocrat. At the time, I was spending that on cigarettes

Gordon's announcement does not have me dancing round in circles strewing roses from my hat.

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Paul TigerB6

posted on 11/9/08 at 03:51 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by nstrugThe money will come from raising prices and cutting reinvestment and dividends.



As above, except there will likely be a bit extra rise to maintain the dividends. This bunch of numpties in government have once again given absolutely nothing except a reason to increase prices even further.

Whens the election?? We can vote in a new bunch of numpties then!!

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designer

posted on 11/9/08 at 04:08 PM Reply With Quote
Funny how electricity here, in France, has not gone up since last August.

Here the government doesn't let them do what they want. It's the same with all things; for example, my solicitor drives a Twingo!!

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Bigheppy

posted on 11/9/08 at 05:17 PM Reply With Quote
Its the fault of the Thatcher government. They were the ones who saw a quick profit by selling off all the profitable national companies and were probably the ones who benefitted the most too. If these industries were publically owned the prices could be capped very easily and the profits being made would help to pay off the national debt. All the rubbish about giving people more choice was a smoke screen to convinced people that privatisation was a good idea.
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matt_claydon

posted on 11/9/08 at 07:51 PM Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by designer
Funny how electricity here, in France, has not gone up since last August.


Because some time ago you had a bit of foresight and invested heavily in nuclear.

Just 'cos it's a bit controversial our lot are scared to go that way so we're left relying on oil and gas fired power stations (and a few dirty coal ones) and are massively at the mercy of global fuel price rises. Yes, nuclear fuel is a limited resource to, but it's not yet in the same short supply as oil and gas since the China and India aren't using it all!

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nstrug

posted on 11/9/08 at 10:41 PM Reply With Quote
As mentioned above, France did the right thing and are now world leaders in nuclear power.

We need to go further with nuclear power though - its only used for generating electricity at the moment but in the short term could be used for generating synthetic petrol/diesel and in the longer term for moving to an all-hydrogen economy.

There is obviously a huge infrastructure problem with a hydrogen economy but there is real potential in synthetic hydrocarbons as they don't require any new infra.

The real problem is that if you discuss pebble beds, energy amplifiers, ITER etc., the majority of people immediately think 'Chernobyl', 'Three Mile Island' and can't see beyond that.

Regarding renewables, there is clearly little potential in the UK outside of hydro in Scotland and offshore wave, but I believe that there is real longterm potential in the solar power satellite concept.

Current biofuels are a horrible, destructive dead end, although there may be some potential in algaeoil.

Nick

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DarrenW

posted on 12/9/08 at 08:58 AM Reply With Quote
The way i see it is - take from the rich and give to the poor. What a nice man Mr Brown is.

BUT - the rich in this case are not rich - it will just be those scratching a living who dont actually need the extra insulation that will ultimately pay.
My house has cavity wall and loft insulation. Im happy with it. but why should i pay a subsidy for those who maybe could benefit from extra.





News last night also had good figures. People will stay pay half the bill.

Loft insulation - half will be £250. Take 15 months to pay back.
Cavity wall - half = £250, takes 20 months to pay back.

Firstly - who will be mad enough to pay £250 for loft insulation?????? Let alone if its anly half the bill.


Time to set up an insulation company me thinks. Id put a bill in for £400, make a killing and the client thinks they are getting a steal.






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Spyderman

posted on 14/9/08 at 11:39 AM Reply With Quote
The idea of insulating and using less power is a sound one.
However good old Gordy's plan of helping people insulate is not his idea.
This is something that has been going on for a long time.
We had our cavity insulation done last year and would have had the loft insulation done as well if we didn't have so much junk up there, all for free.
Pensioners and those receiving benefits have been eligible for those measures for years.

So what is this wonderful bonus Brown has given us? Absolutely zilch!





Spyderman

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