Not to be morbid, but this is the time of year when inexperienced drivers risk stuffing their new toys into the scenery. Just wondering - how many new Locost drivers on this forum have ever driven a rear-wheel-drive car in the past?

Nope none but i had fun learning on the way to the SVA.

Its my first year in rear drive cars.I have been driving around deserted car parks trying to get the back end out because its totally different to drive.I have had 2 imprezas and an evo 8,all 4 wheel drive,but this is a new experience for me,but one which i love very much.am thinking of a track day to really get to grips with things, an stm7 zx9r is my new toy!

Being 21 with 20 years experience i was brought up on MK1 , MK2 Escorts and Cortinas etc so i learned how to play with rwd but have raced fwd cars and 4x4s. Nowadays young drivers have never driven rwd cars and have not got a clue how to drive them. The main difference between driving either of them badly is that in a rwd car you dont see what you hit

In the intro I should have added that I learned to drive on RWD cars - a FWD car was about the 4th or 5th car I ever drove.

The reason for asking is that FWD is far more forgiving than RWD - if you cock it up on the former you just understeer, but on RWD you're going to visit the scenery unless you've had some practice!

It all depends on how you like to drive.
I prefer a car that will oversteer before understeer. I don't like understeering cars.
Both require different throttle responses in corners.
Also front wheel drive cars suffer from torque steer, which can be nasty

[Edited on 2/1/2009 by nitram38]

I should also have added that I much prefer RWD - there aren't many FWD cars that I like to drive...

I find FWD cars harder to control when near or on the limit.

For me a RWD car easier to control on the limit, but it's a whole different set of techniques for FWD cars which I haven't really got the hang of.

I don't wish to be morbid either but our cars are very fast and easy to spin in the dry, let alone on greasy roads at this time of year. I wonder if the insurance companies are going to cotton to this and start to hike up the premiums for every one

since passing my driving test in 1990 ive had 2x vax chevette, opel manta GTE, mk2 granada, 3x sierra 1 being a cosworth,2x s1 rs turbo and now have a zafira GSI tuned to 250bhp witch on lift off the backend steps out lovely so dont mind ive but love RWD and live buy the rule if it ant sideways you ant trying hard enough

Started with FWD mk1 mIni, First rwd was MK2 cortina followed by Mk1 capri 1600GT, viva HB, MK1 & MK 2 Escorts then did a MK3 fwd Escort then back to 3 serria"s. think apart from a few hire cars all have been FWD from them on.

Dave

quote:

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Originally posted by mookaloid
I wonder if the insurance companies are going to cotton to this and start to hike up the premiums for every one

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my first car was a switchable 4wd (landrover).
followed by 2 sierras. (Rwd).
then a Montego GTI (Fwd).
Then a Mk6 Escort (Fwd).
1999 Impreza UK turbo Awd.
current ride is a 2006 Impreza 2.5 Uk turbo WRX AWD.

I also used to have a 3.0L V6 G3 Escort (RWD mk3) but i never had that on the road, i sold it on

where's the option for always driven RWD, unless i've had the misfortune to have to drive someone elses FWD car?
I really really don't like FWD...
first car was a nasty old mk5 cortina, then the BMW E30, then the E36. drive my dads car a fair bit, Vauxhall omega
and avoid my mum peugeots like the plague

in short, i've never owned a FWD car, and i never want to

quote:

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Originally posted by David Jenkins

quote:

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Originally posted by mookaloid
I wonder if the insurance companies are going to cotton to this and start to hike up the premiums for every one

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It's being so cheerful as keeps you going, eh?



(but I do know what you mean...)



[Edited on 2/1/09 by David Jenkins]

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First Car was a MK1 Cortina (1964) 1500. By the time I had to move it on to the great scrap yard in the sky it had progressed to a fire breathing 1662cc full race cross flow pumping out about 150(plus)horses. Great fun with 7 leave heavy duty rear springs to keep the back end in place. She used to eat the single rail boxes every 10k miles, one time I stripped ALL the teeth off the input shaft. 9 Boy did that go with a bang.)

Side ways driving was best of all.

Oh and 30mpg on a long run with twin 40's. But then 11:1 CR did help with that.

my first car was a capri followed by an RX7, never been without a RWD car.

If you want to practice in a safe environment, do something like a DWYB at the Pod, very cheap for a day of playing with the back end (so to speak) or an activity day at north weald (lotus on track organise them) all are less than £70 for the day.

Here is me at the POD in my old supra

I have an M3 now and that drifts very well. Spooky, Was watching Fast and Furious 3 Tokyo Drift


The stylus drifts very well but i havent had a chance to play properly yet




[Edited on 2-1-09 by Antnicuk]

Yep learnt to drive in RWD.......most of my cars have been...... but as those who know me/us....owt newer than 1970 is positively ultra modern.....

My last few tin-tops ..have been fwd....

IMHO only a RWD feels as though you are actually driving.........

Fozzie the fossil

I have never driven a RWD only car.

Driven switchable 4x4's like Shoguns and a Nevada. Even these cars in some conditions took me by surprise (I will admit I had no idea how to handle it at the time.) and it is with this in mind that on my SVA pass I am going to get some sort of tuition.

Being in my early twenties there isnt much thats desirable with low insurance i can get into so only ever owned FWD cars. I do have lots of karting experience including bukc and club100 with direct drive karts and some mid-rwd track day experience so should be enough for when the MNR's registered although i dont plan on using it to its limits till i've done an open aerodrome trackday.

I had my 200sx for nearly 6 years before selling it to build my VortX. it had 300bhp, and was very lively in the wet

A succession of jags and range rovers in the last 10 years, only dabbled in FWD, grew up on RWD cortina's and capri's, v8 rovers never less than 2litre's.

FWD you stop feeling like you are driving the car and just become a passenger behind the controls.

So a MK1 Golf GTI is no fun to drive or a Peugeot 1.9GTI or...... sorry there are LOADS of fun FWD cars and a lot of them are a lot more fun than a lot of rwd cars - especially the Fords people pay stupid money for nowadays! - most Capri's were horrible because the steering wobbled like no ones business even 10 minutes after you'd changed all the bushes at the front, Cortinas never handled nor did Granadas and 90% of Escorts and Sierras were underpowered and to be honest boring........ FWD is just different but once you get the hang of it it's just as much fun! or you can be a car snob and witter on about how much better it was in the olden days when all cars were rwd - I was there and tbh it wasn't better really - but if you want to pay £5k for a rusty Ford Escort I'm sure someone will be happy to let you find out for yourself

That's the whole point of this poll, sort-of. RWD and FWD both have a place on our roads - I was just wondering how many newbies have experienced RWD at speed, when all they've driven is FWD.

Many younger drivers have only ever driven FWD, which can certainly be fun (my daughter's old 205Gti, for example), and which can be extremely forgiving if you make a minor error. For instance, going too hot into a corner and hitting the brakes half-way round - not a good thing to do, but in all probability you'll just understeer and get away with it. Try the same trick with a RWD locost and you'll hit the scenery backwards!

There are other things, like changing gear half-way round a fast corner, which I was told by the instructor to do at 100mph in a FWD Pug 306 at Silverstone! That would be certain to cause a spin in RWD, and was a bit of a culture shock for me. Setting a RWD car up for a corner, and knowing what to do and not do as you go round, is part of the fun and the 'craft' of driving these beasts.

And I do agree about the old cars - some of them were horrific, and wouldn't be acceptable if they were introduced now... but people just didn't try to drive them too fast (not if they wanted to live until tomorrow) 'cos they knew how bad they were!

I ticked both FWD & RWD but admit to taking it easy this year until i get back the confidence from 20 years ago back.
One of my rear wheel drive cars was a Triumph Spitfire which had possibly the best front suspension (double wishbone) coupled with the worst rear you could get (transverse cart spring swing axle) lift off oversteer was more like lift off and die.
Chasing Cortinas through the back lanes from Brentwood to Rainham, when they went a bit quick they lifted off and i had to keep my foot in, Aaaarghhhh.

I have loads of RWD experience, but most of it is old.
Opel Monza, BMW 3.0SI, BMW 2002, BMW E28, the locost (which Cossiebri now has) , the first Sylva Star, the GTM, Jag XJ40, BMW 750i.

The main difference with a light RWD car is the things that can happen when you lift off / change down / don't brake properly. Everything happens so much quicker compared to an old barge like RWD saloon.

I won't pretend that I will somehow be talented behind the wheel because of ancient RWD experience in the wrong type of car, rather I intend being cautious as none of the above can possibly prepare me for the combination which I am about to try.

I have considerable experience of both including lots of Class 9 Autograss experience. 240 bhp rwd on grass/soil/mud is good for learning. I do think that there is an element of rwd snobbery about and we do look back at our early rwd experiences through rose tinted glasses. I'd love to have a go in a BTCC Civic or similar.

I didnt realise how much i had missed RWD until that spring morning in 2004 when i took my indy for SVA,apart from a couple of cars dave beddows has mentioned i find FWD cars as loose canons when you try to drive them at speed.

Lots of rwd driving - SD1's (x2), Capri (3/4 mile drift in snow on public road while all others were stationery ) Vauxhall Viva, ZT 260, toy car and all my bikes!

ATB

Simon

My first car was a Chrysler Avenger 1.6 so I learnt about oversteer before I'd had my first driving lesson!

Stu

David , theres no mention of RWD and cross ply tyres! Even our old works Morris Minor pick up used to go sideways on them, lucky to get 5,000 miles out of a set of rears. No where near as much fun when we fitted radials

Good topic!!!!

And some interesting replies

RWD snobbery? ....hardly, how can it be when that was all you had to drive!

Yes...MK3 'tinas for example.....didn't go around corners, they bounced......but the fun was, surely, changing things to improve them?????
That was certainly my inspiration back then, to learn how cars 'worked' (no, not just engines)...and to carry on learning to the point I built my own....

I totally understand what David (Jenkins) was saying about the braking/gearing into corners, at speed, totally alien in a FWD........to everything you had been taught whist learning to drive a RWD.

Having experienced both, I still say that FWD is more point and shoot, whereas RWD you have to take more consideration of the roads and conditions.....in other words, you really have to think.......

As mentioned above, you have more of a chance to get out of and cope with certain weather conditions than you have in a FWD......but only if you know how to handle it.....The reverse is also true, hence a lot of us give out warnings when newly sva'd cars go out on the roads at this icy/frosty time of year. The RWD cars, if not experienced with them, can turn around and bite you on the bum.....hard, very hard

I still say that RWD gives you the feeling of being a part of the car whilst driving, and FWD doesn't.....

Snobbery? certainly not! ..... caring about you and your cars........YES!!!

All the above IMHO....and as usual feel free to ignore!

Fozzie

Edit to add.... oooOOOooo Cross-Plys......now there's another topic........ramble, ramble, mutter mutter...

[Edited on 3-1-09 by Fozzie]

Only FWD experience for me. Apart from driving my Dad's 1969 MGB Roadster.

So it's going to be a big big step when I get the thing SVA'd on the road. I know these things can bite if you are not careful so I am a little nervous allready. It will be spring by the time I get it on the road and the driving conditions should be better.

The best solution by far is to drive sensibly while you get used to it and, if you can, go to a track day where there are instructors and loads of run-off space. There you can hoon about to your hearts content, learn what makes the car lose traction front and rear (or both!) and find out how to correct it.

I don't know what that sort of trackday costs at the moment, but it will £100 or so well spent.

I have had many fwd and rwd cars in my driving "history", have always prefered the feel of rwd, oversteer is always more fun than understeer! But as has been said, fwd is generally deemed to be more safe, especially for some drivers with limited ability or experience, you are less likely to get yourself into trouble!

A case in point, i recently sold my s13 to a younger driver, it was 3 weeks ago, very cold and frosty, i asked him if he had driven rwd before, he says no... i told him i didnt want to preach, but i said he needed to drive with caution on his way home, and to pick a few warm dry days to drive more "spirited" to learn the car and how different it is to fwd.... he nods and says he will take it easy... he lives 5 miles from me and made just half that before he crashed it into a tree backwards

[Edited on 3/1/09 by Ketchup]

I have driven mostly FWD until i bought a 2.0L sierra a while back to strip for a locost but it was too good to destroy. Had a few sideways moments in the wet due to bad tyres. Great fun. I now have a 320d for this past year. Definately requires more concentration in these greasy conditions but also when you want it to be its much more fun. When I was 17 and just past my test I was a real holigan in my old 1991 MK2 astra 1.4. Looking back now it was dangerous but i learnt how to handle a car that way. I also recently went to a rally driving experience in which i had 3 15min sessions in a MK2 Escort set up for gravel. Very Very good for teaching car handling. Consequently I have no fear of any car especially on track, just respect for the road conditions.

hi,well seeing that i am 17, and only past my test about 2 months ago, i have driven my saxo (fwd) car, and the first rwd experince was my indy on some private land. and i did not push the indy, i noticed the differance stright away(well i new it was going ot be different). sence then i have had a little drive in my dad jag, on private land, but i was scared of driving that.

so once it indy is on the road, i am going to drive it sesible, and pratice in bigg emoty spaces and see what teh limts are before i try it any where.

right here is my cars taht i have driven:
sj410
range rover 2.2 deseil
rover rover 3.5 auto
larder niva
mg something or other
ford fiesta
saxo
vaxuhall astra
rover 820
not a car but a 6 ton dump truck
indy
jaguar s type

not bad for a 17 year old.lol

stuart

Before getting my Indy, 2 years or so ago, I had only driven an old MGBGT relatively carefully. Then I got the Indy and started learning how to drive it. I still don't know how to rive it at much more than 75%, and I dislike driving it in the wet. But that's mainly because I wear a crash hat, and I can't see where I'm going! I think I drive my car quite sensibly, and I rarely have the tail out, although it doesn't worry me when it does go. Having said that, I have gone for a few overtakes and been a bit ambitious with the loud pedal and gone past a little bit sideways.

The westfeild is my first entry to RWD after a pair of 306's.
- Unless you count four years of schools karting, which i dont.


Daniel

Much of my early motoring was in FWD cars. Learnt in a Rover 414 and then moved onto various Fords.

My first car (as in the first that was registered to me) was my GTS... which was also the first RWD car I had driven.

My second was my Mk1 MR2 (RWD mid engined) which sadly had to go.

The daily driver is now a Mini Cooper S. FWD, but does handle very well indeed, very balanced.

Also driven RWD mid engined single seaters as part of formula student at uni which tought me a lot about controlling RWD on the limit.

Had a few hairy moments in the GTS, but thats through lack of concentration for a split second, and thats all it takes. I have since learnt a lot...

David