Whats the law regarding young children in our type of cars?

My daughter is nearly 3 and quite tall. If shes strapped in mar car she cant move anywhere. Obviously you cant use and dont need a booster seat etc.

I have taken her round the block in it just to give her a ride. She had privilidge of first go when i got my plates.

Whats the legality in taking her in it?

same as any other car?

The law is quite clear: you need a booster seat for children aged 3 and above, until they reach EITHER their 12th birthday OR 135cm in height

I got the info confirmed here

EDIT: btw, why do you say you can't use a booster seat? I s'pose not in a Triton-style GRP shell seat...

[Edited on 18.02.2009 by Humbug]

The law states that : Child from 3rd birthday up to 135cms in height (approx 4'5" (or 12th birthday whichever they reach first) then a correct child restraint MUST be used in the front seat. Not an adult belt. therefore she can not travel in your car, there are different regs if it had rear seats. See this site for more info. Kev

http://www.lawontheweb.co.uk/seatbelts.htm

My pals little lad, used to be a regular passenger in his westfield, with a booster seat fitted. I don't think it was a problem fitting/removing it.
Al.




Originally posted by Danozeman
Whats the law regarding young children in our type of cars?

My daughter is nearly 3 and quite tall. If shes strapped in mar car she cant move anywhere. Obviously you cant use and dont need a booster seat etc.

I have taken her round the block in it just to give her a ride. She had privilidge of first go when i got my plates.

Whats the legality in taking her in it?

I think you are mis-reading it. Use a booster seat and harness and you will comply with the law. A booster is the correct child restraint for a 3+ year old. All child seats for kids of this age use the adult belt [unless the child is very small].

'Where seat belts fitted, correct child restraint MUST be used. Must use adult belt if the correct child restraint is not available:'

Stu

If you need to use a booster seat then the best option is to by one the the hard foam types (cycle helmit type material) approx £10, remove the cover them trim it to fit your seat with a hacksaw/knife. Refit the cover. job done,

I'm pretty sure DarrenW has been into the legal side of this at some length, and has posted about it in the past. May be worth a search on the subject

I keep two like Slaters suggestion ^^ at home in the garage, and they are good. I have used them for the ankle biters from ages 3 1/2 to 11, and they do the job.

An interesting discussion, whereby the law was bought in with production cars in mind, that is the use of diagonal seat belts.

The booster cushion is so the youngsters are able to use the diagonal seat belts with minimal chance of garotting/decapitation in an emergency stop situation, as they are seated high enough to stop this happening.

However, in our cars, most have at least a 4 point harness which is akin to the fitments of the 'baby seats' that can be purchased, although at least a 5 point would be better.

Providing that a booster seat is used, to raise the child so the harness fits in the 'right' places, and the harness's can be adjusted enough to keep the child snug without the child slipping, I cannot see anything illegal about it.

I think a court would be hard pressed to deem that a harness safety belt adjusted correctly,was inferior to a diagonal belt/lap belt for which the law was written.

All IMHO of course .... feel free to ignore etc etc

Fozzie

I've fitted a booster seat (and child) into my Indy with Intatrim ranger seats and it works fine. I would prefer 5 point harnesses (for myself as well as the child) as submarining under the lap restraint is a possibility (but no more so than with a 3 point diagonal belt).

IMHO if you can correctly fit a suitable (legal) booster seat and secure the child firmly with the harnesses then you are complying with the law IMHO

[Edited on 18/2/09 by nick205]

Due to slippery GRP seats, too far back placed lower seatbelt mounts (my bad design) and 4-point seat belts, I'm somewhat concerned about having a front-ender in my Locost and 'submarineing' under the 4-points.

The belt then goes up into your chest and causes lots of damage!

I would have thought this problem was far worse in someone as small as a 3-year old!

Cheers,
James

I went into a lot of detail on this a while back and lobbied the DoT over it. Tried all ways to get a more favourable answer (based on our cars having harnessses when all of the guides cover diagonal belts).

Bottom line - you have to use booster seats. Such seats have compliance marks. Modifying said seats removes the compliance and they then arent within the law (and in an accident such mods would go against you).


After a lot of searching i managed to find a booster that would fit the GRP seats (was a budget netto / lidl style seat). Only problem was that said seat had a weight limit that is easily exceeded by young kids so even that is a grey area.


The powers that be even went on to say that if a booster seat couldnt be found that allowed the child to sit correctly in the car then they werent allowed to travel in the car if you wanted to remain within the law.
Of course i cited taxi's and emergency rules regarding kids and cars - but no cigar! EG - the emergency law does not cover pre-arranged trips or trips that could have been avoided. So you cant turn up at the school and offer your childs friend a lift home without the seat.

My kids travel in the Indy very infrequently and it certainly doesn't justify buying a booster seat specifically for it. I consider the four point harness to be safe enough with my kids in the vehicle. I know this may be illegal in the eyes of the law but sometimes the law is an ass.

I take my son and daughter out in my car. My daughter is tall enough not to need a booster but my 8yr old son isn't and needs one. I cut the polystyrene booster seat to shape to fit in the fiberglass seat. It fits very snug and does not move about, he is then restrained by the 4 point harness.

With regards to submarining this would still happen in a tin top. The only way to stop it is to have a 5 point harness.


[Edited on 18/2/09 by stuart_g]

i agree with all of the above but another concern of mine would be the noise so ear defenders would be good and goggles, a helmet is not good for young kids as they can make things worse in a crash! Kids necks arnt strong enough, they can get very bad whip lash or worse with the extra weight. If they are in a four point harness, they shouldnt be able to hit the dash any way.

just my thoughts as my daughter is three next month so ive been thinking this through.

Ed

I quite often take my 4 year old out and she quite often falls asleep

Use cheap booster seat from Aldi (cut to shape), 3 point harness and always run with passenger door in place. I drive like Miss Daisy and just enjoy the time with my Daughter rather than having a 'blast'.

See always wears a pair of pink ear defenders and matching sun glasses.

personally i dont see anything wrong with shaving a polystyrene booster to fit. i doubt the booster would fail in a crash. IIRC its sole purpose is to put the belts in the correct position (or should that be put the kids in the right position for the belts).

My kids love going out in my car but i never go far and never too fast. Helmet not required but i do like them to wear a hat (take the sting off any insects) and good goggles. I usually let them wear mine with the elastic. Those pink ear defenders look fantastic. My daughters sometimes wear there cycling lids as well.


I think its all about risk management at the end of the day. I very much doubt that the majority of Police would raise question over the booster due to the harnesses we use - but there is always one that would so i opt to use unmodified booster (only cos i found a narrow one that fits well).

The booster seat I keep at home I got from Tesco, it fitted in the Cobra Baby Cubs perfectly.

At the moment I have Tritons Wide Boys in the car, and for a perfect fit, a bit would have to be shaved off, but not much, I'm just being fussy, as it does fit quite snugly as it is.
I have also got neoprene seat pads (diy), so slipping on shiny grp isn't an issue.

I always put a 'beanie' type hat on them along with irridescent safety glasses (which they think look cool).....I will invest in a pair of those ear defenders though....

Fozzie

Sort-of getting away from booster seats, but isn't there a risk of slim kids slipping out between the 2 vertical shoulder belts of a 4- or 5-way harness?

[Edited on 19/2/09 by David Jenkins]

quote:

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Originally posted by David Jenkins
Sort-of getting away from booster sets, but isn't there a risk of slim kids slipping out between the 2 vertical shoulder belts of a 4- or 5-way harness?

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The other option is the one i was forced to take by the other half and get a sprint family (waits for abuse) But the rear seat is falt so booster seat fit fine and my eldest is tall enough not to need one and we can all go out together.

Will definately get some of those pink ear defenders and they have ski goggles with ballistic rated lenses