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astra pulled out without checking mirrors?
02GF74 - 12/6/09 at 12:56 PM

see last 4 sec of vodeo

read article first before deciding to view video - nothing horrific is shown.

omega0684 - 12/6/09 at 01:06 PM

the guys speedo clearly reads 170+ mph & he got off scott free! band from driving for life and bike crushed, banned from riding forever!

200mph - 12/6/09 at 01:06 PM

While I have little sympathy for people breaking the law to this degree, the astra driver was negligent there. He was moving to overtake on a road where no-one should be doing so, that includes both him/her and the biker, although there was at least room for the biker to do so.

blakep82 - 12/6/09 at 01:09 PM

as silly as it may sound, he would have been perfectly safe overtaking (at any speed) had the car not pulled out on him...

Guinness - 12/6/09 at 01:13 PM

was decapitated and lost both of his legs

02GF74 - 12/6/09 at 01:13 PM

do we see the car indicate before pulling out? (MSM)

Is there road markings saying no overtaking?

I didn't spot this on the viewing and it takes too long to see the end bit.


Goes to show how quickly a bit of fun can turn to total s&*t.

Regardless, be careful out there!.

[Edited on 12/6/09 by 02GF74]

blakep82 - 12/6/09 at 01:28 PM

a couple of years ago my mates asked if i wanted to go out for a ride on his bike. he'd only had his license a few weeks. er, nah mate. you're alright...

pewe - 12/6/09 at 01:46 PM

To ride on the open road at those sort of speeds is nothing short of totally and criminally reckless.
There is no margin for error especially if you are white-lining it on over-takes.
Had the guy who died been paying attention he would have seen the Astra indicating and held back. The positioning of the Astra should also have told him it was going to overtake.
Not only did he lose his life as a result of his negligence but he has traumatised innocent passers-by, probably for the rest of their lives.
Sorry but I don't have sympathy when there's that kind of suicidal behaviour and his mate should be banged up for being a part of it.
Ride/drive safely out there.
Pewe

MikeR - 12/6/09 at 01:48 PM

Sorry, even if the bloke had checked his mirrors I can understand why he pulled out.

He would have seen a bike in the distance. There is no reasonable way he could have been expected to realise just how fast the bikes where going without studying his rear view instead of glancing.

I know a lot of people will disagree with me here but they where asking for a crash. The only people I feel sorry for is the other people involved. I've see far too many sunday bikers driving like that.

balidey - 12/6/09 at 01:49 PM

I know it may be a bit controversial, but I think part of the blame is to do with the road. The current fashion for new roads is to make them wide. If they are narrow then everyone follows in line, but make them 3 lanes wide, but still only 2 lanes invites people (from BOTH directions) to overtake where its not safe. Loads of roads like that in my neck of the woods. If they were narrower, or made into dual carriage way then fine, but this half way house is part of the reason for lots of bad overtakes.

And even though their speeds were reckless on whats obviously a busy route, its never nice to hear of someone dieing

whitestu - 12/6/09 at 01:49 PM

I agree with Pewe - In my view [as a biker] that's the biker's fault. If you look at the road positioning of the Astra it was clear he was looking to overtake and the biker tried to get past him anyway.

Riding like that he was never going to last long!



[Edited on 12/6/09 by whitestu]

tomprescott - 12/6/09 at 02:04 PM

I agree with balidey and pewe. I think going that fast is always likely to end in tears on a public road; there is no accounting for other peoples actions so it makes sense to drive carefully in case someone does pull out without looking so you have time to stop.

And the roads are a good point too, I had a calibra on my bumper yesterday when I was doing the limit, he stayed there until the road widened a bit then decided to pull out - despite there was a roundabout 100 feet ahead and an oncoming van! Luckily he swerved back in again!

l0rd - 12/6/09 at 02:48 PM

I am shamed, but i have to admit, i nearly caused a similar accident last year.

Looked at my rear mirror. There was a Ford ranger pick up track about 300ft away. By the time that i checked again in front of me if there was a car comeing and started overtake, a bike was up my arse.

I felt sorry for the guy if i scared him as i pulled over. I see him often though as we both arrive nearly at the same time at the same town but he has always been a nut driver, overtaking too closely,pulling in front of me several times too closely.

I believe he is beging to have an accident and have someone feeling sorry for the rest of his life.

hellbent345 - 12/6/09 at 02:52 PM

tbh that astra would have had no idea that bike was coming, from the video, the bikes would have been hidden behind the car behind him when he looked, and noone really expects, when you are in that kind of road positioning, someone to come roaring up your arse and try and get past before you! that said why did the astra pull out on the van anyway?
Al

Edit to say, lord, if you checked behind and back in front to begin the overtake, you shouldnt be shamed if the bike came thundering up behind you!

The police will blame this on excess speed, and will fuel thier drive for 30mph speedlimits everywhere (that will be next!) - in actual fact it was completely reckless driving, and speed without skill or judgment, speed in the incorrect place. Speed doesnt kill, but driving poorly will kill, speed is just the factor that decides how badly dead you are.


[Edited on 12/6/09 by hellbent345]

phoenix70 - 12/6/09 at 03:21 PM

The only people I have any sympathy with are the innocent victims of this pair of nutters, it is people like them that give the do-gooders like BRAKE the ammunitions to try and get speed limits reduced. As has been said elsewhere on this thread, Speed doesn't kill, it's reckless driving that kills.

So because of idiots like these pair, the rest of us have to watch not fracture the speed limit in case we get caught by a speed camera.

The astra driver had no chance of seeing him, the guy with camera has 100mph on his clock and the other one was pulling away from him, so probably 120-140mph....

I think they should have thrown the book at the surviving rider, a three year ban, pathetic.




[Edited on 12/6/09 by phoenix70]

ashg - 12/6/09 at 03:37 PM

ride like that your going to die pretty quickly. as demonstrated in the video

the speed didnt kill him. poor judgement and riding like a twat did.

if he did the same thing at 50mph he would still be dead.

Johneturbo - 12/6/09 at 04:18 PM

sad for everyone involved.

would a lot of your views be different if you'd only seen the last 5 secs of the video, and there wasn't anything about the speeds involed ie 170mph on the dual carrage way.

can't tell if the astra signalled, if so then it was bad judgement on the bikers part.
if not then the car driver should be held responsible.

indykid - 12/6/09 at 04:51 PM

just been discussing this on another car forum and although the bikers are trying to defend it to an extent, it's hard to dispute it was the biker's fault. the car driver's not beyond reproach but is far less responsible.

neither of them should have been in the middle of the road at that instant and the result was tragic.

fwiw, the bike is most probably an import and the speedo in km/h. the differential speed of him to the cars on the dual carriageway is nowhere near 100mph. at best, he's doing 110mph max
tom

Steve G - 12/6/09 at 04:55 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Johneturbo
sad for everyone involved.

can't tell if the astra signalled, if so then it was bad judgement on the bikers part.
if not then the car driver should be held responsible.



The car definately signals but only as he starts the overtake - i had to maximise the screen to see it. I have to agree that the car driver should have been held partially (not fully) responsible for that crash. Firstly he was crossing into the hatched area in order to overtake whereas the biker didnt need to due to the width of the lane, and secondly it was very unlikely he used his mirrors before pulling out as there was several seconds to see that bike coming down the outside irrespective of the bikers speeding. Should be minimum of Driving Without Due Care and Attention for the car driver, and quite possibly Causing Death by Dangerous Driving.

As for the bikers, well one paid the ultimate price and the other got to see his best mate decappitated. I dont see how anyone could claim he got away scott free with a 3 year ban, small fine, suspended sentence......... but mostly seeing his mate killed like that. Safe to say surely that jailing him wouldnt really achieve much after seeing his mate die?? Plenty of criminals need jailing before the biker - so couldnt justify sending him down myself.

Got to agree - the real victims there are the couple in the camper van who were in totally the wrong place but now have to live with that accident for the rest of their lives (plus the family of the biker).

Macbeast - 12/6/09 at 05:08 PM

The gene pool is a little clearer today.

How can you say the couple in the camper were in the wrong place ??

[Edited on 12/6/09 by Macbeast]

Steve G - 12/6/09 at 05:22 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Macbeast
How can you say the couple in the camper were in the wrong place ??


Didnt mean that literally and thought that might be pretty obvious - just the wrong place at the wrong time for them etc. As i said its them i feel most for - minding their own business doing nothing wrong when the actions of a lunatic biker and car driver who also made a mistake leave them having the trauma of a fatal RTA for the rest of their lives

mark chandler - 12/6/09 at 05:32 PM

As above really, he cracked the throttle open from the roundabout, must have been doing 120 as he tried to swerve around the astra and killed himself.

The Astra although indicating late did not jerk out and would have had minimal time to see if a bike was racing up behind him.

The bloke killed himself and nearly a few other people, irrespective of seeing his mate killed the other rider should have recieved a more appropriate sentance, I pity the poor people that had to clear this up and the innocent parties that were involved.

Both of them could just as easily hit child at 100mph when crossing the road, so had no concern whatsoever for anyone elses life.

[Edited on 12/6/09 by mark chandler]

Macbeast - 12/6/09 at 06:12 PM

OK Steve - sorry misunderstood.

SteveWalker - 12/6/09 at 06:14 PM

I've had a couple of looks through and it's not very clear, but my impression is that the Astra was probably indicating before the bike passed the car behind him, but was not visible to the camera and that the bike would have probably been hidden from him by that car. The driver not seeing the bike is not suprising, with the distance from the car behind, no vehicle travelling anywhere near the speed limit would been able to pass the car behind and catch up with him by the time he pulled out.

Steve G - 12/6/09 at 06:17 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Macbeast
OK Steve - sorry misunderstood.


No problem at all mate - didnt explain myself too well.

The £190 fine is a joke isnt it - should have been 10 times that!! Still dont think jail would achieve much - not when there are career criminals who seem to get non-custodial sentences one after another.

adithorp - 12/6/09 at 06:54 PM

Lunacy! Ride like that and it's just a matter of time before it goes tit's up.

What about undertaking his mate...Not exactly in a position to accuse the Astra driver of poor overtaking.

Only good thing there is it wasn't someone else he killed.

Paul (Notts) - 12/6/09 at 07:04 PM

The Astra driver was alread starting his overtaking manover before the bike past the car behind the astra...Feel sorry for the drivers of the cars involved.

Paul

thunderace - 12/6/09 at 09:26 PM

i have been a biker for 25 years
i have one rule and it works
im invisable .
very sad for the ones left behind.
totally his own fault.

l0rd - 12/6/09 at 10:35 PM

As far as i am concerned, it's the bikers fault completely.

What i would like to say also is that here in UK you have a bad tendancy of indicating and pulling out instantly expecting that the vehicle behind you will slow down to let you pass.

I see that every day driving down M5 and M4 and i am fed up of it. specially when you get cars that do 60Mph behind lorries, and all the rest doing 80+ Mph in the midle lane.

02GF74 - 13/6/09 at 09:32 AM

quote:
Originally posted by l0rd
As far as i am concerned, it's the bikers fault completely.

What i would like to say also is that here in UK you have a bad tendancy of indicating and pulling out instantly expecting that the vehicle behind you will slow down to let you pass.



It is too easy to jump onto the biker riding at excessive speed therefore it must be his fault type of band wagon.

I looked at the video again, and highliht two things.

rule 68
areas of white diagonal stripes or white chevrons painted on the road are to separate traffic streams.... Do not drive over these areas if you can avoid doing so. where the chevron has a solid white line, you must not enter the aread except in an emergency

The driver clearly crossed into the marked off area. He had no reason to do so. Just becasue the car in front was going too slow for him is no excuse to cross into that area.

Rule 42
remember the routine: Mirror - signal - manoeuvre

We may never know if the driver used the mirror and we can see the indicator going but it looks like the driver was already moving to overtake when he/she put the indicator on - as noted above.

unfortunatley the motorcyclist broke the golden rule of not paying attention to his "escape lane" - a safe place in the road to go if forced by other traffic - making an overtake along side a vehicle coming in the opposite direction left him nowhere to go.

very tragic all round.

omega 24 v6 - 13/6/09 at 10:26 AM

IMHO he was lucky to get as far as he did before that accident.

Ninehigh - 13/6/09 at 09:39 PM

quote:
Originally posted by phoenix70
it is people like them that give the do-gooders like BRAKE the ammunitions to try and get speed limits reduced.[Edited on 12/6/09 by phoenix70]


Oh yes we should definately reduce them from 140! This is the problem with the do-gooders he probably would have been almost as dead if he was doing 25... Plus it's not going a little over the limit that appears to be the problem it's going way over the limit, along with overtaking while another car's coming the other way (only THAT doesn't kill does it?)