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Track day kit vs Road day kit
Opirun - 4/4/13 at 11:07 AM

Hi all,

I am just trying to decide on my options for a kit car, been think a lot over the past week, especially after all the valuable and helpful comments everyone has posted on this forum. It has been very useful. One of the things I am considering is the option for having a kit only for off road use. This way I do not have to worry about IVA, etc.

One of the key things for me is that I build the kit myself, and that it has a bike engine. That has always been the passion for me. I have consider buying prebuilt ones, but I for me that's 80% of the achievement factor out of the window. One thing I do notice is that bike engined kits seldom get used much on the roads.

I am not interested in competitive racing, just having a blast every now and again. I know that track days can be in excessive of £100 a day, not including the car costs, tyres, repairs, etc. But wondering if there are options for a blast in airfields, etc which would be a cheaper alternative.

I look forward to learning from the experiences of others and your responses.

Thanks.

[Edited on 4/4/13 by Opirun]

loggyboy - 4/4/13 at 11:11 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Opirun
I am not interested in competitive racing, just having a blast every now and again. I know that track days can be in excessive of £100 a day, not including the car costs, tyres, repairs, etc. But wondering if there are options for a blast in airfields, etc which would be a cheaper alternative.


Even airfield days will start at about £100. Trackdays on proper tracks range from £100 (rarely and at the start/end of the year when they are less popular) to about £400 for somewhere like Silverstone at peak times.

whitestu - 4/4/13 at 11:19 AM

You'll want at least another £100 for fuel if you do a full track day.

Stu

Hellfire - 4/4/13 at 11:22 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Opirun
One thing I do notice is that bike engined kits seldom get used much on the roads. [Edited on 4/4/13 by Opirun]


Sorry but I have to disagree with this comment. I'd suggest that BECs get used on the roads at least as much as CECs. IME, our MK Indy actually gets used on the road more than an equivalent CEC would. The driving experience and thrill of a BEC is just so different from a CEC that you're actually waiting for half decent days, just so you can take it out............

Phil

Opirun - 4/4/13 at 11:27 AM

That's really good to hear! I think I have been heard to many CEC owners advising against BEC on the road because of the drive-ability on the road.

Seems that so far I am really underestimating the cost of the track day kit vs road day kit.

nick205 - 4/4/13 at 11:46 AM

I considered the option of a track only car when I built my MK a few years ago. On balance, the prospect of having it sat in the garage on a sunny day and not being able to use it made the then SVA and registration cost worth every penny.

Realistically, how many track days a year will you have the time and cash for? Do you have a trailer etc to get the car to and fro? Do you want that much money tied up in something with very limited use?

Finally, the resale value of a road legal car is always higher (perhaps not by the cost of IVA, but not far off it).

My preference would always be for road legal and make the most of every opportunity you get to drive it...everywhere. We used to eat a lot more take aways and watch more Block Buster DVDs when I had mine...any excuse to go for a blast

RickRick - 4/4/13 at 11:46 AM

My mnr's got an R1 engine in it, and i mainly drive it on the road, i guess there a some downsides to bec's on the road, it's quite easy to stall setting off, and there's not much torque, till say 5 mph, after that they just leave cec's way behind!

twybrow - 4/4/13 at 11:48 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Opirun
That's really good to hear! I think I have been heard to many CEC owners advising against BEC on the road because of the drive-ability on the road.

Seems that so far I am really underestimating the cost of the track day kit vs road day kit.


I use my BEC on the road more than I do on the track... It is bollox that they are undriaveable on the road. Yes, the engine and gearbox is more suited to full attack mode rather than bumbling along, but it is absolute tripe that they cannot be suitable to use on the road. My car does not over heat in traffic, the clutch is light and with the right adjustment, it drives just like a regular tintop would.

For me, as for Hellfire, the BEC brings a unique experience, that I have yet to see replicated in a CEC (and yes, I have been in some very powerful, very fast CECs!).

Have you been out in a BEC and a CEC yet? If not, I would start with that to help you decide. If you tell us where you are (add your location to your profile), I am sure there are plenty of fellow Locostbuilders who will happily take you out for a blast - any excuse to get out is as good one!

ReMan - 4/4/13 at 12:05 PM

I'm with all the pro BEC comments.
Mines a road car and a very driveable one at that, which occasianally gets used on the track
A quick half hour blast is enough to top up my tank

The IVA is not something to worry about.
If you plan to pass it you will
If you bodge a car together quickly with no thought it will fail

mark chandler - 4/4/13 at 12:21 PM

Mine has been SORN for a few years now as I would rather spend the money on extra track days, I had to build a trailer and stick a hook on my car so in reality the money gap is pretty small and my car is not insured anymore.

When on the road it was fine for driving about, the 'red mist' does have a habit of descending which also added to track only for self preservation.

If track focused then second hand slicks @ £25 a corner are a big saving, you would also use different rated springs to optimise.

Regards Mark

Jenko - 4/4/13 at 12:21 PM

I agree with all the comments re BEC on the road...they are fine.....And to flip that around, CEC are also great on track. For quick lap times, first is driver skill, followed by the cars set up (suspension, tyres, weight), engine power is close to the bottom of the list, but with the BEC you get a nice light weight car.

Airfield days are great because they are a) normally cheaper b) have a large open run of areas c) typically smaller, tighter and slower than the dedicated tracks which can suit our lightweight machines.

Again, it's nice to go for a blast every now and then, and I alway drive my car to track days.

Opirun - 4/4/13 at 12:25 PM

Once again, thanks everyone for your kind replies and input.

I should have made it clearer in my original post, for me there is no question of bec vs cec, I definitely have my mind set on a BEC. I made this decision after being taken for a ride in a Grinnell Scorpion, also by the input from others on this forum.

I do have a 4x4 but would need a trailer and towbar.

What I am trying to knock off is the decision between track day kit vs road day kit. I am now towards the road day kit and dealing with the IVA, etc. Therefore, narrowing down my focus. This has been really useful. I agree having the kit sitting in the garage without being able to use it on the road would be annoying along with my underestimation of the running costs for sole track day kits.

Hellfire - 4/4/13 at 06:12 PM

What's your budget and how soon do you want to build one?

Phil

adithorp - 4/4/13 at 07:24 PM

Who says BEC's don't get used on the road? Done three 3000mile tours to the Alps/Med and loads of 500 mile days. Don't believe all the guff that CEC owners will feed you; They probably never do more than a couple of hours in there's at a go.

Track days are great (booking one tonight) but so are days out, weekends at shows and tours.

Opirun - 4/4/13 at 08:41 PM

Budget, at the time of signing up to this forum I was hoping around £5k for BEC kit on the road. The more I learn from research and all the peeps in this forum the more I see this that coming in at this budget is going to be tricky if not impossible

Timescale, I would like to have this completed by October 2013. I think I can manage about 10 hours a week of kit build time.

P.S. I am with you all on the BEC

daniel mason - 4/4/13 at 08:51 PM

you would definately need to double your budget to build a bec.,and get it on the road. at least double infact

nick205 - 4/4/13 at 08:52 PM

Noting your budget, timescale and desire to self-build, I'd think a part built kit is your best bet.

mark chandler - 4/4/13 at 08:58 PM

If you scratch build you will be within the money budget, need to at least double the time though.

I think mine took around 9 months and that was going at it hard, more than 10 hours a week, building the frame was quite quick, it is all the little bits that take time.

sdh2903 - 4/4/13 at 09:07 PM

quote:
Originally posted by daniel mason
you would definately need to double your budget to build a bec.,and get it on the road. at least double infact


Not true,

I was on the road for 8k. I didnt scrimp on spec either, stack gauges(second hand but unused) , mnr reverse (second hand), new wheels and toyos. I was crafty with my donor and made money on it, I also got a very good deal on an R1 of which lots of parts were sold and money put back in the pot.

I reckon doing it again i could shave another grand off that, my on the road price includes everything inc IVA, registration and a full tank of fuel.

I wouldn't discount buying a built one. Buy it, strip it to a bare chassis and rebuild it to how YOU want it, with what engine you want. Still get the sense of achievement but you will save some money and no IVA, which is not as bad as people make out, build the car to the correct standards to a good quality and you will pass.

Good luck with whatever you decide

Opirun - 4/4/13 at 10:03 PM

Thanks all. Glad to hear it is possible-ish, I don't mind putting in more time if need be, also some weeks I can double my man hours as I will have a helping hand

Looking at prebuilt options, what how about something like this?

Lotus 7 / Caterham Replica Kit Car | eBay

So I would need to strip it sell the engine, etc an replace it with a BEC, then get it IVA'd.

Possible under 5k?

What do you think?

greenwood03 - 5/4/13 at 07:50 AM

the track versus road is an interesting one. Everyone would have different aims as far as their own track driving goes, meaning: some pals run slicks and everything they can in order to be the fastest thing out there, others run modest pintos and take their pleasure from piloting what they have as quickly as they are able.....subtle difference.

the thing for TD's for me is having pals around who i can have a good day with, because otherwise ( again for me) it can become a bit samey - and that isn't always possible, add in the costs of some circuits ( not a fan of hacking around a flat concrete field with cones ) and it starts to get a bit expensive for my me. £180/220 a day plus the tyres/fuel and gen wear....

so now do the more occasional TD with much more road driving, atleast with a road going car you can please yourself whener you choose. There's a fair few BEC's in our club that get used regularly on the road so i wouldn't let that put you off.

Never built a car but as has been said buying one that's already been iva'd /sva'd would seem a sensible choice. That said be wary with whatever you buy and do take stock of not just swapping engines etc but the cost of other bits n pieces that might creep up on you.....changing seats, harnesses, brakes, shocks, tyres etc etc can have a significant/huge impact and what seemed like a bargain may surprise you.Like all things depends how much you can do, what you can source cheaply etc etc.