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finally ....
02GF74 - 5/6/13 at 09:02 AM

quote:
Drivers who hog the middle lane or tailgate other cars will face on-the-spot fines of £100 and three points on their licence.



http://uk.news.yahoo.com/middle-lane-hogs-face-100-spot-fines-010820727.html#5DDZLHK

ray.h. - 5/6/13 at 09:10 AM

I cant agree more but other countries let you undertake. I can see it carries a higher risk than overtaking but maybe a better solution.

dave107 - 5/6/13 at 09:20 AM

two flaws in that 1. not enough police to carry out the fines and 2. isn't on the spot more dangerous than letting them carry on doing it.

johnemms - 5/6/13 at 09:27 AM

Copper stops you .. issues ticket..
No need to provide any evidence...
You are now Guilty until proven innocent

Or.. you can spend a shed load of cash on a barrister and get away with it.
Poor bloke pays - Rich guys walk - again..

Duncan Grier - 5/6/13 at 09:27 AM

About time poor driving in this country got some focus - think £100 is to little a fine tbh for mobile

However there is the issue where you sit closer to a car hogging the fast lane to remind him you want to pass as you dont want to undertake and could end up with the ticket yourself.

There should be further tests for motorway driving also before your allowed on them

Lets hope common sense is applied by those with the power and with the idiots (majority of them) get the book thrown at them

And dont get me started on reducing all the decent roads left in this country to 50 zones or lower.....speed ramps

I honestly dont think its the slighlty higher speeds that are the issue in most cases but just general poor driving ability - road perception and safe overtaking. Of course excessive speed and taking the whole road etc etc is an issue but really points back to my 1st point of poor driving knowledge / ability

Right back to work lol

DG

Duncan Grier - 5/6/13 at 09:30 AM

quote:
Originally posted by johnemms
Copper stops you .. issues ticket..
No need to provide any evidence...
You are now Guilty until proven innocent

Or.. you can spend a shed load of cash on a barrister and get away with it.
Poor bloke pays - Rich guys walk - again..


I thinks its actually worse than that

rich will work something out or can afford it
poor dont care and most avoid insurance etc and / or dont get fines as they cant pay them / wont
its the middle ground us hard working people who need our cars and adhere to the laws who will get teh fines and have to pay them as we cant afford court fees and they know we will pay up and get meatier fines

DG

Slimy38 - 5/6/13 at 09:52 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Duncan Grier
Of course excessive speed and taking the whole road etc etc is an issue but really points back to my 1st point of poor driving knowledge / ability


There has been god knows how many reports saying that accidents due to excessive speed are actually extremely low, I think it's lack of concentration that's the biggest one? And that won't be helped at all by car manufacturers making cars really comfortable with loads of mod cons.

And yes, we will always have the situation where people are taught to pass the test instead of being taught to drive. I think it's absolutely bonkers that you can pass a test without touching a dual carriageway or motorway.

onenastyviper - 5/6/13 at 10:31 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Duncan Grier
quote:
Originally posted by johnemms
Copper stops you .. issues ticket..
No need to provide any evidence...
You are now Guilty until proven innocent

Or.. you can spend a shed load of cash on a barrister and get away with it.
Poor bloke pays - Rich guys walk - again..


I thinks its actually worse than that

rich will work something out or can afford it
poor dont care and most avoid insurance etc and / or dont get fines as they cant pay them / wont
its the middle ground us hard working people who need our cars and adhere to the laws who will get teh fines and have to pay them as we cant afford court fees and they know we will pay up and get meatier fines

DG


If you are adhering to the laws, why would you get a fine?

Duncan Grier - 5/6/13 at 10:44 AM

quote:
Originally posted by onenastyviper
quote:
Originally posted by Duncan Grier
quote:
Originally posted by johnemms
Copper stops you .. issues ticket..
No need to provide any evidence...
You are now Guilty until proven innocent

Or.. you can spend a shed load of cash on a barrister and get away with it.
Poor bloke pays - Rich guys walk - again..


I thinks its actually worse than that

rich will work something out or can afford it
poor dont care and most avoid insurance etc and / or dont get fines as they cant pay them / wont
its the middle ground us hard working people who need our cars and adhere to the laws who will get teh fines and have to pay them as we cant afford court fees and they know we will pay up and get meatier fines

DG


If you are adhering to the laws, why would you get a fine?


More of a general statment, not had any fines or points myself but more of what I hear and see from other people in the same situations and very different outcomes

As for getting the ticket to start with agree you are going to have to be in a situation viewed to be breaking the law

DG

owelly - 5/6/13 at 10:48 AM

I've just returned from a North Wales/Chester/Lancashire sojourn and the Centre Lane Only Drivers seemed utterly oblivious to any other vehicles on the road. I'll happily sit in the inside lane and filter past vehicles in the middle and outer lanes. As long as you don't change lanes to carry-out the manouver, it's perfectly legal. You do need to be watching what the CLODs are doing so they don't decide to move left as you're filtering and you could still be accused of dangerous driving if things turn squirrelly!

loggyboy - 5/6/13 at 10:50 AM

quote:
Originally posted by johnemms
Copper stops you .. issues ticket..
No need to provide any evidence...
You are now Guilty until proven innocent

Or.. you can spend a shed load of cash on a barrister and get away with it.
Poor bloke pays - Rich guys walk - again..


Not at all, its not an indisputable prosection. Its a Fixed Penalty, just like any other offence. If you dont accept it you choose to go to court and ask them to prove it.

iank - 5/6/13 at 10:58 AM

With on the spot fines there will be a LOT more people fitting dash camera so they can prove they were driving legally when they were pulled.

One question, if you are sat in the middle lane doing exactly 70mph are you actually commiting an offence? No one could legally overtake or filter on the inside anyway (not saying this is a good or acceptable thing but it's not clear to me at the moment).

Doubt it will make the roads safer as the numpties that sit in the middle lane will just start chopping in and out without looking which is probably worse as it's dangerous rather than just irritating.

iank - 5/6/13 at 11:01 AM

quote:
Originally posted by loggyboy
quote:
Originally posted by johnemms
Copper stops you .. issues ticket..
No need to provide any evidence...
You are now Guilty until proven innocent

Or.. you can spend a shed load of cash on a barrister and get away with it.
Poor bloke pays - Rich guys walk - again..


Not at all, its not an indisputable prosection. Its a Fixed Penalty, just like any other offence. If you dont accept it you choose to go to court and ask them to prove it.


In the magistrates courts if it's your word against a 2x policeman don't expect to win unless you have video evidence. If there's a jury it's different, but you'll need a pile of cash to go down that route (or have plenty of free time).

RK - 5/6/13 at 11:21 AM

I kind of agree with dave107: when they pull someone over here, they have decided to go half ways into the lane so they don't get run over whilst standing there collecting money out their prey. Of course, everyone else has to go around them with predictable results.

And again, governments are addicted to money. Gotta pay for the sick, the poor, the old, and let't not forget, your political friends who need contracts (that don't always show up in the budgeting).

DavidM - 5/6/13 at 09:01 PM

While middle lane hoggers are an irritant, I'm puzzled how they are breaking the law. When I had driving lessons I was taught that the inside lane was for normal driving, the middle lane for normal driving and overtaking, the outside lane for overtaking only. It also says that in the highway code last time I looked. So which law is being broken?

David

iank - 5/6/13 at 09:19 PM

quote:
Originally posted by DavidM
While middle lane hoggers are an irritant, I'm puzzled how they are breaking the law. When I had driving lessons I was taught that the inside lane was for normal driving, the middle lane for normal driving and overtaking, the outside lane for overtaking only. It also says that in the highway code last time I looked. So which law is being broken?

David


Not any more (if it ever did) the law will be one of the quoted ones

https://www.gov.uk/motorways-253-to-273/lane-discipline-264-to-266
quote:

Lane discipline (264 to 266)
264
You should always drive in the left-hand lane when the road ahead is clear. If you are overtaking a number of slower-moving vehicles, you should return to the left-hand lane as soon as you are safely past. Slow-moving or speed-restricted vehicles should always remain in the left-hand lane of the carriageway unless overtaking. You MUST NOT drive on the hard shoulder except in an emergency or if directed to do so by the police, HA traffic officers in uniform or by signs.

Laws MT(E&W)R regs 5, 9 & 16(1)(a), MT(S)R regs 4, 8 & 14(1)(a), and RTA 1988, sects 35 & 186, as amended by TMA 2004 sect 6

silky16v - 5/6/13 at 10:32 PM

Refuse to drive in the inside lane due to state they are in from the all the wagons leaving rutts in them, I dare anyone to drive the inside lane in a half decent car and not find themselves being tramlined all over the place
Once again another useless idea from the government to fleece cash, road awareness and motorway lessons should become part of the test
You only have to look at the way Germans have to go through to get a licence

MikeRJ - 6/6/13 at 06:18 AM

quote:
Originally posted by silky16v
Refuse to drive in the inside lane due to state they are in from the all the wagons leaving rutts in them, I dare anyone to drive the inside lane in a half decent car and not find themselves being tramlined all over the place


I always use the inside lane when not overtaking and don't have a problem with tramlining, but perhaps my car isn't a half decent one (Civic Type R).

Tramlining issues are greatly exacerbated by having large wheels and very low profile tyres which are also incompatible with the rest of our potholed road system.

[Edited on 6/6/13 by MikeRJ]

hughpinder - 6/6/13 at 07:43 AM

As MikeRJ says - I've never noticed any significance difference in tramlining - but I've never run a tyre profile less than a 50 (because of the potholes). If you ever drive on the continent, the first thing you notice on getting back to the uk is how the middle lane hogs stop the traffic flow on motorways.
Hugh

iank - 6/6/13 at 08:50 AM

quote:
Originally posted by hughpinder
As MikeRJ says - I've never noticed any significance difference in tramlining - but I've never run a tyre profile less than a 50 (because of the potholes). If you ever drive on the continent, the first thing you notice on getting back to the uk is how the middle lane hogs stop the traffic flow on motorways.
Hugh


First thing I tend to notice is being the M20 it's like driving on a plowed field whatever lane you pick
Quality of driving does drop markedly compared to the French motorways.

Furyous - 6/6/13 at 07:50 PM

quote:
Originally posted by ray.h.
I cant agree more but other countries let you undertake. I can see it carries a higher risk than overtaking but maybe a better solution.


New Zealand allows undertaking. They also fine people for doing 4kph over the limit. It doesn't work. You end up with 3 lanes of traffic side by side doing precisely 100kph. When someone eventually gets ahead, they won't pull over. And then you get people swerving from lane 3 to lane 1 then back to lane 3 to get past.

Having learned to drive in the UK where there's a good variation in speed and people (used to) keep left, it gets frustrating. UK motorway driving standards have definitely plummeted in the last few years for some reason.

jacko - 6/6/13 at 08:11 PM

what dose my head in is trucks or coaches doing 59 and another trying to pass at 60 taking miles and miles to do it

DavidM - 6/6/13 at 09:38 PM

quote:
Originally posted by iank
quote:
Originally posted by DavidM
While middle lane hoggers are an irritant, I'm puzzled how they are breaking the law. When I had driving lessons I was taught that the inside lane was for normal driving, the middle lane for normal driving and overtaking, the outside lane for overtaking only. It also says that in the highway code last time I looked. So which law is being broken?

David


Not any more (if it ever did) the law will be one of the quoted ones

https://www.gov.uk/motorways-253-to-273/lane-discipline-264-to-266
quote:

Lane discipline (264 to 266)
264
You should always drive in the left-hand lane when the road ahead is clear. If you are overtaking a number of slower-moving vehicles, you should return to the left-hand lane as soon as you are safely past. Slow-moving or speed-restricted vehicles should always remain in the left-hand lane of the carriageway unless overtaking. You MUST NOT drive on the hard shoulder except in an emergency or if directed to do so by the police, HA traffic officers in uniform or by signs.

Laws MT(E&W)R regs 5, 9 & 16(1)(a), MT(S)R regs 4, 8 & 14(1)(a), and RTA 1988, sects 35 & 186, as amended by TMA 2004 sect 6


Well it was 1977 when I passed my test. It's interesting that they used "should" rather than "must" in relation to keeping left.

David

pekwah1 - 6/6/13 at 10:49 PM

yep, no actual law but it is the highway code.
As for tramlining, i have a new(ish) beemer with kinda low profile tyres, never had any issues with tramlining and i drive around 50k miles a year!
As for the lane discipline, it's terrible! It's not a surprise our traffic is so bad as the majority of drivers refuse to use the left hand lanes, effectively reducing the number of lanes on the motorways, so the government can widen all they like but if noones uses the extra lanes, and we're not allowed to undertake, it's all a bit pointless!