hi, i'm 18 and currently building a locost with a 1300gt engine (i know the insurance will be painfull)

in couple of years i would like to fit a 1300 bike engine.

has anyone else swapped a 1.3 for another 1.3, if so did it affect your insurance

you may get a shock, it won't be that dear....i pay £130 no no claims.....41 years old, Blade engine.......i would expect you to pay not much more for your current build..

jon u seem to forget that under 25's get penalised

i'm dreadin mine couldnt get insurance for a 1.4 fiat terra van

and im gonna be payin 800 for a 1.3 golf mk2 with 3 yrs no claims at 23

yeah, but its a locost........

there cheap, go out n try it........

k i'll trust u on this 1

its ok guys, i did my research and got a quote for a 1600cc toyota powered locost before i decided to build.many companies dont do under 24 years old, but a few do. one of my quotes was £750. and im only 19!! you cant get insurance like that on a corsa, 1.1 litre, for that. i was amazed at how cheap it is, and for you oldies who pay next to nothing, £750 is damn cheap.

same here im only 19

450 squid for a 1.8 pinto powered locost

not bad considering my 1.6 orion would be about a grand at only half the fun

I'm 19 and have been given a quote for £4-500 for basically anything below 1600 at any state of tune and including motorbike engines, 3rd party, a value for the car of £3000, 3000 miles p/a and as a second car, with no ncb.

This compares to a best quote after a solid day of phoning up companies of £1800 for VW polo 16 valve (1.4, 100 BHP), fully comp, and 10000 miles.

Obviously perhaps not the fairest of comparisons, but given the number of insurance companies that either point blank turned me down or gave me daft quotes (phone robot: "that's £4483 for a 10 month term, is that ok?" me: "hahahahaha"-click-) I strongly suspect that I simply wouldn't get a quote for cars with more than 100bhp perhaps 125hp unless I was willing to blow £2500 or more.

my quote of £750 was with 5k limited mileage, 3rd party, nil ncb and having a claim already to my name.

my quote was with graham sykes, who were your quotes with redeye and kingr???

there........

bloody heck how many people here under 25???

24 years old, 6 points,blade engine,£145 its a steal. Fastest thing ive ever driven too

I'm nowhere near 25 either

I was once!

I notice Mr Faunch that you daren't put your picture up or the illusion of your so called age will be revealed. For all of you who don't know Steve, he's the one in my and ChrisG's photo archive in the Le Mans pics usually with a baseball hat on back to front. Do you all think he's 24? thought not!
Only joking Steve!

hey those guys who have given figures of their insurance can you give the insurers name so we can compare.cheers.

Hey chrisW,how about a list of insurance companies in the links?

Or do we all have to go put and buy those shite kit-car mags.

yeah too right. those mags are s**t only 1 maybe two articles worth reading and the rest is classified ads.

so u mean being 19 and wanting to drop a 5.7L supercharged V8 into my locost might be a bad idea?

me thinks it will have to be a track only car till im able to pay the insurance with my pension

i got an online quote for my 17 year old son, assuming hes passed his test, for a 1990 ford escort 1.4.

does 3,200 strike you as a bargain?

TPTF


best I got was 1400 tptf 500 xs for a 1990 1.1L fiesta.


Oh to be young again - like bollox!


atb

steve

x flow 1600 £119 with footman james nncb

Guys, sorry to be barer of bad news...but I must remind you to look at your location. You people in the mainland don't tend to do as much wrecking as we do, and no one really cares about us N.Ireland people...so they can use stuff our insurance away up and we'll have to pay. That's why so many young bucks are tearing about in £199 a month 3yrs free insurance Corsas.

I've been trying for ages to even get a quote for me on my nearly finished Locost, with a 1300 Xflow as I knew insurance was going to be tough. So far the nearest I've come to a quote is "HA HA...no chance son". I'm ever hopeful though...dunno what to do next, maybe just fly about without insurance.

On the NI Se7ens (http://www.nise7ens.net) club site, under technical/insurance there are listed the insureres that cover NI. At the minute the complete list isn't up, but it should be soon. Direct link is:
http://www.nise7ens.net/insurance.htm

The names of the insurers that cover NI are:
Aon McMillen
EA Davies (25+)
Laing & Co
Adrian Flux (19+)
Sureterm Direct
Graham Sykes (25+)

There you have it, you can get the search on google for the addresses yourselves as I'm nackered after a night of hard locost building.

By the way, I'm 17. And before anyone slabbers about young whippersnappers, my locost is bronze welded...no aul mig muck for me

Hope this helps.

Willie

p.s.Try getting a quote in parents names, I'm on a 1.1Renault 5 for £500 under ma's name

bronze welding isnt actually welding unless youre using bronze to make the chassis. its called brazing, its half way btween welding and soldering. its not welding cause it doesnt fuse the pieces together just bonds them.

its nice to know theres other young scamps like me building a locost, but i dont have an probs with insurance.... yet.

cheers
fin

Brazing is when you heat the whole joint up and the bronze flows in by capilary attraction or whatever you call it. Must say, I tend to call bronze welding brazing, but it should be called bronze welding. Caterham call it Bronze Welding too.

You don't need fusion to weld. The bronze welding is very strong. After someone reckoned my harness tube wasn't strong enough, and that the "brazed" joint's weren't good enough I cut one end of the tube and put in a crow bar. I yanked as hard as I could 5ft from the weld...and I couldn't get teh tube to bend never mind the joint to let go. I've also taken a sledge to wishbones, chassis tube (Not on the chassis at the time) etc, and never once has the brazing given up.

Quite often with MIG welding and espically arc the first wee bit isn't too well penentrated...with bronze welding you can get it to flow right through. I've welded bits then split them on the bandsaw to check.

So there you go...

heh heh...sorry about that, I'm used to people not liking brazing/bronze welding so I thought I'd just explain abit.

Willie

i know bronze is good, ive used a lot of it. i know its works well and is very strong but its still not the same as welding, as you say... by capillary action. welding is the fusion of the two materials. thats why ali welding is so hard, the temperatures are high and its got to be done quickly or it will oxidise not letting you join the two parts. you can bronze (braze) two different steels or steel to iron but youll find it difficult to weld them.

ive also done silver soldering which is also strong and is done in the same way as bronze.

Hi Findlay,

Sorry to take so long to reply. If I remember correctly, the best quote I got was from Adrian Flux, which is particularly amusing since they gave me an absolutely appaling quote on my dub only a few months ago.

Willie - I was aware that insurance in Ireland is an absolute pig, I seem to remember Citroen did a similar offer of several years insurance "free" with their saxo, which resulted in them selling like hot cakes in Ireland. Sadly there's not a lot that you can do about expensive insurance, if it's expensive then it's expensive, simple as that, kit cars should be cheaper than normal cars though, even if they're still expensive in comparison to English prices.

Kingr

I've been thinking a lot about insurance (being 17 and building a 2.0 vaux locost). I also have a 998 mini (£400 FC, cheap as chips), If i'm insured fully comp on the mini then i can drive any other car 3rd party, so i get my dad to insure the locost in his name (i.e. full no claims, over 25 etc. etc.) and pay him however much it costs, then i can drive it under 3rd party. I might let him have a go for a discount on the insurance too!

Isn't there the catch that you can't be the owner? You'd have to register the car in his name as well.

not necesarily, my mini is in my dads name but im insured fully comp on that.
IAN

Vaux, £400 FC on for a mini seems cheap, is the insurance in your name? i am 17 and have had a quote for a 993cc nova for £1800 without pass plus and £1100 with pass plus.

yeah but its a nova and they have a reputation! Whos it with? a lot of companies quoted about £900 to £1000 for my car but Norwich Union were just over £400.
If its still high get one of your parents to insure it and put you on as a named driver, far cheaper.
IAN

[Edited on 11/11/02 by Vaux2.0L]

It's not always the case that you're allowed to drive anything 3rd party if you're fully comp on another, you'd have to check with your insurer. Basically outside of actually insuring you on your car, it's up to them, and I would suspect given the price of the quote, you wouldn't get that option. Less money = less flexibility is generally the rule. Secondly, you're heading for rather murky legal water doing what you propose, insurance companies have the rather nasty habbit of happily taking your money under the appearance that you're being insured until you make a claim, at which point, they "discover" that perhaps you haven't been entirely truthful about how you're representing yourself and boom you're so deeply in trouble you don't know which way is up. You can go to prison for driving a car without insurance.

The place where they would get you would be that (in my understanding) the primary driver is the person who does the most driving. This clearly would not be the case.

Could be I'm wrong, and all this is perfectly legit, it is a rather complicated situation with different people being owner/insurer/driver.

I know I wouldn't mess around with insurance.

Kingr

Fair comment, my insurer does let me drive other cars 3rd party I've already checked. I think it mite be so cheap cos everything in my Family is Insured with the same company, even my Grandads properties. We might get sum special deal.
IAN

Hi
Ive been a bit slow replying but i need some help and pointers. How much would the insurers do me for with a blade engined locost at 17 and newly passed driving licence

seriously, you can never tell.just ring around.... no more than 1000. better than all your mates driving round in 1.1 fiestas.

cheers

I just got my first off the cuff quote form adrian flux,MK indy 2 litre 3000 miles a year fully comp at £185.
I reckon i can get this down a bit with flux or by shopping around,i was hoping for £150 tops so its looking good

[Edited on 18/12/02 by bob]

Sorry bob but mi eyes have just gone all misty on me. price aint toooo bad i suppose.
back in1980 I asked for a quote on my Mk1 cortina, just turned 21 'n' told everything Id done to it. he went out the back did some figures then came in and said £325 Fully comp me the ONLY driver, I thought steep but not bad,


The he said " A QUARTER"

Nuff said I thought made my excuses as you do & left

(payin £400pa tpft for doggy old sierra at mo, must start buildin)

[Edited on 18/12/02 by jollygreengiant]

Jammie bastards the lot of you. I tried one company and nearly died. Cheeky swines quoted 1790 quid for a MINI! That was direct line though. Dread to think what a 1400 turbo locost might cost... tried Adrian Flux, but im still awaiting the reply...

worst quote i got for 1600 16v locost was £750. and im only 19 with no no claims.

quote:

---

insurance companies have the rather nasty habbit of happily taking your money under the appearance that you're being insured until you make a claim

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by bob
I just got my first off the cuff quote form adrian flux,MK indy 2 litre 3000 miles a year fully comp at £185.

---

well they could take the veiw that the book says "for £250" and to get a pro to fix anything ie the insurance approved bodyshops would prob cost more than 250 theyll prob right the thing off

quote:

---

Just a quick question, but is there any point in getting Fully Comp insurance on a car you built yourself?

---

yes,stuart, that is true but as johnston said, if the claim made is more than the car is worth then they will write the car off.

an example..... i drive a fiat tipo at the mo. the interior is velour and in tip top condition, the bodywork is in perfect condition(the chassis was galvanised in the factory like all cars should be) no rust at all. the car runs like a dream etc etc etc...... but by the parkers car price guide its only worth about £500, no where near its value as a good car to us, but if we were to have damage done to the car more than 500 then the insurance company will write it off. its cheaper for them to give us the £500 than to pay £600 for the damage repair.

cheers
fin

Its a little more complicated than that. There a 4 categories of BER (beyond economic repair)vehicles, A,B,C&D.
a, This is a total loss (T/L) with no salvage value, typically a burn out. The salvage companies are contracted to remove these fre of charge and store them until cleared for disposal (ie the owner gets the dosh and signs the car to the insurance company)
b, a vehicle which is sufficiently damaged that it must never go back on the road, salvage value usually about 5% of retail
c, significant damage but not repaired cos the cost exceed the value, salvage pay typically 15-17.5% of retail
d, constructive total loss, usually a stolen recovered where the total repair cost are unknown (engine faults 600 miles later may be blamed on the way the car was driven whilst joy ridden), or any damage on an older car which exceeds the value but do not relate to any safety issue whilst being driven on the road eg a dented door on an '87 metro, repair costs £400, vehicle value 30p. salvage have to pay 20% of retail.

your Fiat Tipo worth a retail of £500 would get salvage of £100, less admin cost of the repair (£50) means any repair costing more than £350 woulf write it off as a category D.

Also any car with a retail of less than £2000 will not be recorded as a total loss on the HPI system, and will only carry a PNC warning on the V5 (police national computer)

If a locost were to be damaged, because the retail value would be a little vague (look in Glass's guide under L for locost!!), and the salvage value would be nil to a salvage agent., the insurance company would rather repair, pay you a CIL (cash in lieu) rather than write it off. I have heard there is a bit of a market developing for T/L kit cars which can be rebuilt without using any of the original parts (work that one out for yourselves!!) to avoid the SVA.

If any locost owner has an accident, drop me a line, before you negotiate wilth an insurance assessor (this is short for crafty devious .... ), who may leave you in a less than perfect position. Remember your insurance should leave you in the same financial position as you were BEFORE the accident.

Hope it never happens

Mark

PS Dealing with all this boring poo 50 hours a week pays for my locost build!!

cheers for clearing that up.

all i was trying to say was that the situation was bad............. but its actually even worse than what i thought. ouch. my poor poor tipo. the last accident to happen to it (i think it was last year BTW) was 400 damage, the whole fibreglass tailgate was damaged. The guy who went into the back of me paid up himself, it was he who didnt want the insurance involved, i look back now and im glad he did.

cheers
fin

Fin,
Its even worse than that, out of the £500 payout, they would also deduct your excess, usually £120 now, but they do let you cash in the unused part of your Road Fund Licence!!

The best one is when the insurance company asks you for the value of thew vehicle so that they can work out the value of the insurance premium on a fully comp insurance. ( T reg 3.5 sd1, 5 year old vehicle, then) Car gets stolen 1 week after fitting £260 jvc stereo (receipt to proove) and 5 new tyres (£350 had receipt) also had my tools in the boot about a grands worth, and the car was worth on the street £1500.
Insurance company offer £500. reason "we only pay out on bottom book value".
"so why did you ask me the value of the vehicle." I said.
"so that we can calculate the value of the premium."
"so pay me the value of the vehicle then"
"Sorry but we only pay out bottom book value."


And Round ANd round AND...................

Wont use Bishopsgate now on principal.

5 months after settling the car turned up. But thats another story.

Enjoy.


Don't like Norwich Union either for similar reasons. (agreed Value Classic policy, they didn't pay out & it wern't even my fault)

[Edited on 28/1/03 by jollygreengiant]

They are legally obliged to pay "current market value", but it is up to you to PROVE what the current market value is!

A good tip is to take advantage of their tightfistedness. If they think that the cost of settling the claim will be greater than the difference between what you have been offered and what you want, they will settle higher, but remember, they are skilled negotitors and use time (letters going back and forth) to wear you down.

1, Get adverts out of autotrader, freeads, ebay, local paper to back up your value.
2, Get the garage where you get the car serviced to vouch for its condition (or your mate the mechanic to lie)
3, Hire a local independant assessor to fight your case, the usually cast £50 a go, but insurance companies usually buckle very quickly when they get involved, because you can also claim back the costs if he proves them wrong
4, Dont lose your temper over the phone, they do psycological profiling and and angry policyholder is usually close to settling (end of tether) and they will just clam up and dig their heels in, knowing you will settle shortly.
5, Always get the names of claims handlers BEFORE you start a conversation, and try and record the conversation if possible, the initial calls are taken by juniors, and they can and do say the most stupid things at times, which can be VERY useful later on in the proceedings
6, Talk to me before you claim, I can point out the potential potholes before you fall in them. Knowing what to say is important, but not as important as what NOT to say!

Hope my advice will not be needed, but if it is............

Mark

mark you seem very wise on the insurance side of things! in fact you are just like my dad who was in the insurance game for 35 years before this sept decideing he was going back to uni to allow him to earn big bucks as a claims investigator! however you have said almost everything my dad has ever told me about insurance companys so i just want to tell everybody here that this guy knows what he is on about and he speaks the truth about those b@stard insurance companys!!!

if anybody has any insurance worrys and cant get hold of mark then just ask me and i will get my dad to help out

James

Talking crap is my speciality btw!!!

Just to make sure no-one gets the wrong idea, I don't work for insurance companies, I work for an insurance approved bodyshop and have to deal with the insurance companies all day long, arguing about estimates, labour rates, cost etc. You really get to know how the cunning so and so's work (just in case they are looking in!! Bastards!! oops!)

Mark, going back to what JGG was saying about the value you give for you car when asking for a quote...

Is there any implication for under-valuing your own car, i.e. you say its worth £500 to get a cheaper premium when its really worth £5000??

If you value the car at £500, even the smallest accident will write it off, they will pay you the £500 LESS YOUR EXCESS (usually £150 minimum on a locost).

If anything, over value the car by at least 20%, it is less lightly to be declared BER, if itis nicked and not recovered, or burned, they have less scope for knocking your value down.

If it is damaged, the average assessor will want to give you money to repair the car yourself, so he has no comeback on repairing such a specialist car. you can value your labour at £23.50 per hour, plus all parts at retail, no matter what discount you can wangle, and dont forget paint and materials at about £50 per average tintop panel.

If you want to reduce your premium, go for a higher excess, If you car is damaged by some (insured) moron, you dont paythe excess as you will be claiming on his insurance, not yours, or if you claim on your own policy, you pay the excess at the end of the repair, and then your company reimburse you once the have claimed repair costs from the third party. if you damage the car yourself, then bite the bullet like a man!!

Mark

Hello, it's been a while since i asked that question about insurance. And now it seems that it doesn't matter, as it looks like im going to have to sell my locost due to my (and my dad's) lack of time or enthusiasm for the project. It's got a 1300 gt engine, 4 speed box, live axle, gaz adjustables. should turn out to be a nice example. If you'r interested and would like the complete spec then give me an e-mail at jhaines@orange.net with subject "your car" (my phone beeps when i get mail)

Im suprised there are so many people under 21 on here. I think the work has spread about cheap insurance.

I think the only car that could match the quote ive been given for my 2.1l tuned pinto MK Indy is a 998cc Mini. They mite be fun to drive but, come on 30bhp or 155bhp.....