I have the sinking feeling that the Lotus is NOT very safe in a side impact. In the U.S., land of the SUV and inattentive driver, I am very concerned about this.

I am not so concerned about deformation of the actual structure, but transfer of the energy in a collision to the driver/passenger. I am afraid of serious injury by the neck snapping sideways, even possibly hittin the grille of the enormous SUV which just ran the red light.

I plan on a full roll cage which will prevent intrusion of a vehicle into the Lotus. But I am still afraid of serious injury because there is NO crush space for the side of the Lotus.

Any ideas? Or is there no way to do anything about this? Oh, racing style seats with side head protection would not work in this car. I intend on driving it to work when its nice out. These seats seriously limit side visibility.

I have seen on racing westies and cateringvans people put a side bar from the bottom of the rear rollbar out and down/over the rear arch and then down to the bottom chassis member (i think!) by the back end of the footwell. i'll have a surf for a pic.

A.

I think I know what you are talking about - our Sprint and Midget type cars have a similar setup. Wonder if this would totally ruin a Lotus' looks?

check out this website, not exactly what I remembered but a solution nonetheless

Changing the topic slightly.

Are you not worried about ride height of your car on the roads over there?

I thought ours were pretty poor but on a fairly recent trip, I noted that the millions of SUV's and all the soggy boat-like motors have made the approach to road maintenance quite interesting.

No little pot holes like we have to put up with but everywhere I went there were big dips and bumps in the road that caused any unfortunate soul who had done the unthinkable (and bought a Jap car) to bottom out and issue a stream of sparks from the underside of their car!

Another thing I noticed was that 'lane discipline' on the freeways was interesting. It seems weaving in and out of lanes is perfectly acceptable practice, as is driving on the person in front's bumper!

Also, how does right of way work on X roads without lights? It seemed to me that whoever is the most aggressive gets
to go first, with no anger or complaints from the others waiting!


No complaints though, experience of our stressed out, cramped roads where you simply have to pay close attention gave you a definate advantage if you were in a hurry!
It is so much more relaxed over there.
Too many straight roads though.

As far as ride height, I was going to start at what I think is a reasonable height, and if I should need to adjust it, I will adjust the coilovers. There are plenty of lower riding cars over here, and mostly they have to deal with approach/departure from driveways and such, not a big deal with a Lotus.

The 4 way stops I think are what you are talking about. Pretty much you have to be aggressive about it because you will otherwise wait all day for grandma or the lady with the cell phone strapped to her ear to make her decision. Or the idiot who waves people on even though it is their turn. The key is to pay extreme attention and when you notice someone not paying attention, and not going when they should.. you take their opportunity away. When this has happened enought times, they play by the rules, hopefully.

I know it sounds shallow or hardass, but otherwise you will never get where you are oging.

As far as weaving and tailgating, I do neither although I have found myself "putting pressure" on the person in front if they are going waaaayy too slow. Or left lane bombers.. They are the worse. And I have had to be aggressive to get around people who are blocking the way - otherwise you will be stuck behind inconsiderate people just in their own little world. But weaving and tailgating.. does happen alot here.

I think it's a cultural thing. All of us Americans think we are entitled, and anybody who tramples on our rights and so on and so on. I would assume the British are a little more polite.

Brian

Seen pictures of an (apparently famous) lotus 7 called "the black brick"

Had pods on the side.

Could do something like that - give you a crushable zone.
Plus if you did it right, you could carry a sixpack or two in it.

Very different look though.

- Greg H

Check out Ben's road cage, maybe what your after:

http://www.benedict.org.uk/

Check out Ben's road cage, maybe what your after:

http://www.benedict.org.uk/
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Would look a lot better if it was about 9" lower!

Andrew.

Interesting! Thanks.

Safety aside, that ruins the lines of the car.

Personal opinion of course, but I bet quite a few agree...

hippy i agree

Cheers

James

Forcus,

We do a fair bit of the old 'putting pressure' on here too. Mainly because weaving and under-taking are quite severely frowned upon here so your only option is often a bit of bullying.

I don't know if you have the same but our main problem on the motorway/freeway is people with an inate fear of changing lanes....They are not quite as slow as the truck or grandma in the inside lane, so they sit in the middle for their entire journey. Why they seem to feel safer in the middle lane, surrounded by traffic, is beyond me!

As far as politeness goes, I reckon it stems from being too reserved - we wouldn't want to bother or inconvenience anyone else, you wouldn't want to cause a scene after all !!
Your lot are just a bit more prepared to 'wear your heart on your sleeve', if you are angry/happy/sad, show it!
It makes you more friendly - at least 20 random people just sparked up conversation for no reason in the 3 weeks I was there for.

We wouldn't do that - everyone you talked to would think you were a madman!

We are getting better but our over-politeness and reserve really isn't a myth

As far as safety goes, I reckon if you get hit by a Dodge Ram (damn, I love those things), no amount of crash protection will save you

quote:

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Originally posted by uberf1end
Forcus,

We do a fair bit of the old 'putting pressure' on here too. Mainly because weaving and under-taking are quite severely frowned upon here so your only option is often a bit of bullying.

I don't know if you have the same but our main problem on the motorway/freeway is people with an inate fear of changing lanes....They are not quite as slow as the truck or grandma in the inside lane, so they sit in the middle for their entire journey. Why they seem to feel safer in the middle lane, surrounded by traffic, is beyond me!

As far as politeness goes, I reckon it stems from being too reserved - we wouldn't want to bother or inconvenience anyone else, you wouldn't want to cause a scene after all !!
Your lot are just a bit more prepared to 'wear your heart on your sleeve', if you are angry/happy/sad, show it!
It makes you more friendly - at least 20 random people just sparked up conversation for no reason in the 3 weeks I was there for.

We wouldn't do that - everyone you talked to would think you were a madman!

We are getting better but our over-politeness and reserve really isn't a myth

As far as safety goes, I reckon if you get hit by a Dodge Ram (damn, I love those things), no amount of crash protection will save you

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That rollcage does look a bit on the large side.
If you are not using the car for competition, I couldn't agree more - a design where the cage is more inside than out would be infinitely preferable.

Despite being more function than form, the lines of a Locost are very good without a cage. Maybe I've just convinced myself of that 'cos I have one?


Mmmm, trucks

Before I crossed the Atlantic, I was a firm believer in small, high revving, efficient engines being the only real way to power a vehicle (hence why I have a bike engine in mine).
However, I have since fallen for the lazy V8 or giant diesel truck that rules stateside. I now believe that the 3rd car in the garage (after the Locost and the daily runabout) should be a massive pick-up. Shame Dodge Rams are about £30,000 over here.

quote:

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Originally posted by uberf1end
Despite being more function than form, the lines of a Locost are very good without a cage. Maybe I've just convinced myself of that 'cos I have one?


Mmmm, trucks

Before I crossed the Atlantic, I was a firm believer in small, high revving, efficient engines being the only real way to power a vehicle (hence why I have a bike engine in mine).
However, I have since fallen for the lazy V8 or giant diesel truck that rules stateside. I now believe that the 3rd car in the garage (after the Locost and the daily runabout) should be a massive pick-up. Shame Dodge Rams are about £30,000 over here.

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The (my) rollcage is indeed a bit on the large side, especially on the height. That's 'cos I'm quite tall ~6'3" with quite a long torso and wanted the cage to easily clear my helmet (ooo-errr!)
I do agree the lines of the car suffer because of it and the weight of the (bike engined) car suffers significantly as well.
However after my last sevenesque type car which had only a cosmetic "roll bar" it was a sacrifice I definately wanted to make.
Contributing to this is an incident when I was hit in an RTA by another Tiger (his fault BTW). He hit my front o/s wheel and ripped off all that front suspension. If the collision had beed a fraction of a second later, he would have T-boned me in the side of where I was sitting.
Also when I was blatting round country roads it was always at the back of my mind that in the (unlikely I know) event of having a major off / incident which may or may not be my fault then I was very exposed.
I know I probably worry too much but for me, it definately tempered my enjoyment slightly and so I decided to go for the full cage.
Looks wise I don't think it's as bad in the flesh and anyway I don't really care what people think. The bigger sacrifice is the weight penalty but you pays yer money and takes yer choice.
I should also add that now I've got a short sump on it, the front suspension is not sitting up to quite the exessive degree it was when the pics on my website were taken. At some point I'll get around to taking some more & redoing the website, jut don't hold your breath!

At the end of the day, I'm happy with it!

Cheers,
Ben

I reckon you are, of course, so right to worry but until I have that accident (fingers crossed I never do), I will continue to just try to put it out of my mind!

I comfort myself with the thought that motorcyclists take bigger risks everyday so at least I am not quite the stupidest motorist on the road

[Edited on 15/5/03 by uberf1end]

Benedict,

I hope that you don't take my comments as insults. It was solely my opinion. And I can't agree more on the safety. I am trying to strike that balance between safety and looks.

At one point I had decided that looks were everything and threw safety to the wind. But I quickly became grounded again on that matter. Summer has started here and in the time of one week, about 10 motorcyclists had been killed. Many were not killed by any fault of their own (People pulling out in front of them, etc).

By the way, besides my other vehicles, my daily driver is a Focus 2.0 Zetec which is pretty common to the UK Focii. Small world!

quote:

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Originally posted by Forcus
I hope that you don't take my comments as insults.

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quote:

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It was solely my opinion

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Forcus, where are you based?

I haven't seen you on locost NA list I don't think...

I'm in sunny (raining now..) FL.....

quote:

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Originally posted by benedict
..... and anyway I don't really care what people think. ..... At the end of the day, I'm happy with it!

Cheers,
Ben

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Alan, where are YOU based? I remember talking to you and saying that I live in Tampa, but can't remember for the life of me where you are...

Anyway...

When I do my build, I'm planning on having a fiberglass tub house about 4" of that impact-styrafoam stuff along the outside portion of the car, TVR Speed 12 style.

Personally, I think the addition of pods running alongside the car between the wheels makes for a brawny disposition. If they're functional for safety it's even better.

As for you open-air folks, you probably didn't pick the Locost for it's safety. Basically, if you're in a wreck you're pretty well hosed.

Forcus, the only suggestion I could offer you would be to mount a bar between the windshield and rear rollbar or maybe another tube along the outside running level and 4" or so away from the body panels. It may not look fantastic but if would give the impression that your car is wider than it really is and would also give you a chance at being batted away rather than run over... In the case of a Hummer, be sure to gun it and get out of the way!

-MR

When my brother took his driving test in the US a few years ago, he mentioned the question on the 4-way stops.

Apparently it went something along those lines of:

Q. Two cars arrive at the 4 way stop at the same time, who goes?

A. Whoever got there first!!!!!!!!

benedict

"I comfort myself with the thought that motorcyclists take bigger risks everyday so at least I am not quite the stupidest motorist on the road"

Bear in mind when you make comments like this that most accidents on bikes are caused by car driver's - using phones, day dreaming, talking, being vain (women/makeup) etc etc etc.

ATB

Simon (motorist/motorcyclist!)

<rant>
As a bike rider (don't like the term biker!) I also agree with Simon. Some motorcycle accidents are caused by morons who just outride themselves or the bike and end up regretting it (or dead!). Some are caused by moron car drivers who are just not paying enough attention to the road.

I have found myself driving along and suddenly suprised that a bike has "crept up on me". This is my fault not theirs! However trying to overtake me whilst there's another car coming the other way and whilst we are going around a blind bend is definately their fault when they wipe out and die!
</rant>

Right that's off my chest.

I ride a bike, and Im building this car..
which will be safer-
On a bike, you can 'Bail' from the accident- the bike may take lots of damage, but if you're fit and fairly flexible, then you'll flail down the road, fairly unharmed...
In a locost, youre strapped in, so have to suffer whatever the car does...

Another thought for those that might find it amusing pulling out in front of a bike. It's worth bearing in mind that a bike travelling at reasonable speed will get halfway THRU your car before stopping, even if you're in the way!!

ATB

Simon

The 4-way stop rule is whoever gets there first, but if two people get there at the same time, the person on the right goes first. If 4 people arrive at the same time (Department of Motor Vehicles feels that this will never happen) you have to muscle it out...

There is a method of "bailing" from a Locost crach - www.locost-ejector-seat.com


-MR

quote:

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Originally posted by Jumpy Guy
I ride a bike, and Im building this car..
which will be safer...

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Hear, hear

ATB

Simon

My main worry about the Locost is being run over by a big truck - if you got hit side-on the big wheels would just run over you, instead of being pushed along by the bumpers (or rolled over) as would happen in a saloon.

DJ

David, just stay on the b-roads and keep away from trucks!

Oh and lobby your local MP to put freight back on the railways and let us have our roads back!

No dissing truckers but they do think they own the road just because they have a job to do. There should be a psychiatric test for all potential truck drivers as they are armed and dangerous with those 'kin huge 18 wheelers!

I doubt that you would really have to worry about 18 wheelers running you over - they have pretty low bumpers that are designed to aviod such an occurance... Large pickups will still not run you over (unless equipped with insanely oversize tires, but then it wouldn't matter what car you're driving). At its lowest height, the locost is still more than half the height of a big tire, so it would still push you along (ignoring the fact that there will most likely be bumper at the same height.

I wouldn't worry about it too much, but a roll cage or side impact pods wouldn't hurt in any event.

-MR

I was on a dual carriageway waiting to turn left at a roundabout when a JCB fourtrak went past to go straight on. That made me feel small. The bars down the side of the seating area are as thick as the side impact bars in car doors and the car is light enough to be pushed down the road so unless the bumper rides over the side you might be o.k. 4X4 might be a problem as they don't look where they are going anyway, too busy doing their hair and answering the phone usually or rushing to pick up kids, get to stables etc.

yours, Pete.

JCB fourtrack = 60mph tractor!

Usually heavily laden, going fast, and driven by someone with a tractor licence, not a HGV one. Not a good combo, as you can usually get a tractor licence by driving a short distance without falling into the ditch.

Get a lot of these things on the road in East Anglia... scary.

DJ

quote:

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Originally posted by andyd
David, just stay on the b-roads and keep away from trucks!

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quote:

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Originally posted by David Jenkins
JCB fourtrack = 60mph tractor!

Get a lot of these things on the road in East Anglia... scary.

DJ

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quote:

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Originally posted by Simon
benedict

"I comfort myself with the thought that motorcyclists take bigger risks everyday so at least I am not quite the stupidest motorist on the road"

Bear in mind when you make comments like this

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quote:

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Originally posted by timf
when the farms use the big jcb to plough through the hedges at the side of their field to get to the other one .

2 big rubber marks in road and unmetionable ones elsewhere

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benedict,

So you didn't - thousand apologies

ATB

Simon

I've been worried about the safety of this "my god my ass is an inch off the ground" machine I'm building also.I saw where caterham has installed aluminum honeycomb panels for side and rear impact protection.It's extremely light incredibly strong and does absorb energy really well in a crash situation. I am an aircraft mechanic and work with the stuff quite a bit. It would take about $800 U.S. to do what Caterham does to theirs with certed material(approved for aircraft use)or$200 u.s. without certs. As for the american suv's and pickups,(the E.L.F. proclaimed scourge of mankind)I'm going with rocket lauchers!

Luego have addressed the side impact protection thing by using rectangular tube to make the diagonal bracers around the passenger compartment of the Velocity Xt (and I assume the standard Velocity and Viento?), but at the end of the day, if side impacts concern you that greatly, better not build a seven replica! No seven replica will offer good side protection because, as stated by another member earlier, ther is no deformable bodywork beside you to absorb the crash. You'll just have to drive it in a helmet and HANS harness!

I categorise my Locost as "Offers nowhere near as much protection as a modern saloon, but a hell of a lot more than my old motorcycle!"

Funny - my wife is happy for me to build a Locost, 'cos she thinks it's going to be a lot safer than the motorcycles I used to ride...



David

You shoudln't have told us that Dave, we'll find out your address now and blackmail you for favours, lest your wife should receive certain 'indiscriminate' mail describing the less than 110% side impact protection in a 7!

quote:

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Originally posted by Jumpy Guy
I ride a bike, and Im building this car..
which will be safer-
On a bike, you can 'Bail' from the accident- the bike may take lots of damage, but if you're fit and fairly flexible, then you'll flail down the road, fairly unharmed...
In a locost, youre strapped in, so have to suffer whatever the car does...

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