Vortx RT+ vs Vortx RT & The Vortx RT Dash
EViS - 25/3/06 at 04:20 PM
What is the difference between the RT and RT+?
What is NOT included in the RT Starter Kit or a Zetec donor vehicle which I will have to go source from somewhere else?
Is is not possible to fit a custom dash made out of MDF/leather-type upholstery?
Is a MNR Vortx RT considered to be more/less/about the same expensive to build as a Luego Velocity or MK Indy?
EDIT: I deleted the previous thread by mistake 
. Here was the only reply prior to deletion, sorry chockymonster 
.
-----------------------------------------------
chockymonster, posted on 25/3/06 at 15:51
The RT+ is about 30kg lighter than the RT, it uses cortina uprights instead of sierra which gives better geometry.
It also has inboard front suspension, fully rose jointed supsension, removable rear rose jointed brace to allow easy diff change and the GRP tunnel
cover as standard.
As for the list of other stuff if you're using a zetec you'll need a rear diff and driveshafts, sierra or cortina uprights and brakes. Fuel
tank, pedal box bits, lights, wiring loom, propshaft, switches + other bits I haven't considered yet!!
As for the dash, it's integral in the bodywork.
Marc says that £5,500 will build you an RT.
I had the same quandry when deciding which one to go for, Marc was totally honest about the differences and went through the pros and cons for what I
wanted to do. He said that the RT could be 3 seconds or so a lap slower around a circuit than the RT+.
Bear in mind that the chassis is totally customisable, Chris thinks that only 3 or 4 of the cars built so far have the same base kit as it's all
customisable.
[Edited on 25/3/06 by EViS]
chockymonster - 25/3/06 at 04:52 PM
I was wondering where that had gone!
I was going to suggest popping up to see them, but like me you're in the wrong part of the country for most of the kit makers.
5 hour drive to harrogate isn't pleasant! I'm not looking forward to the drive back with the kit 
Krismc - 25/3/06 at 05:44 PM
Well i went for the Rt plus and im glad i did its a well put together piece of kit....... oh will be if i ever get it done!!!
quote:
What is NOT included in the RT Starter Kit or a Zetec donor vehicle which I will have to go source from somewhere else?
well im doing a zetec doner version and so far the list is as follows!
Engine £200, Omex ecu, throttle bodies £1800, raceleada hubs £850, sierra LSD diff 4x4 rear beam and gear box £100, £120 re brake refurb, seats £400,
steering setup and handbrake £40
plus all the stuff not in the kit but available from mnr like wiring loom, carbon upgrades, fuel tank lights etc came to nearly another £1000
all in all im bout £8-10k for finishing project if that helps
oh and i visited 3 other kit manufactures and the MNR is far superior in current design and they dont charge extra for stuff that should be done but
isnt from other places like powder coating!
quote:
removable rear rose jointed brace to allow easy diff
where or what???
[Edited on 25/3/06 by Krismc]
[Edited on 25/3/06 by Krismc]
chockymonster - 25/3/06 at 07:05 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Krismc
quote:
removable rear rose jointed brace to allow easy diff
where or what???
I dunno! my kit hasn't been made yet but it's part of the specs on MNR's site
quote:
Dedicated Car Engine And Bike Engine Chassis
Fully Rosejointed Independant Suspension All Round.
Chassis Constructed From Round Section 16 & 18 Guage Tubing.
Lighter And Stiffer Construction
Triangulated And Braced Front And Rear Floor Pans
Additional Rear Bulkead And Diff Area Triangulation
Additional Front Bulkead And Foot Area Triangulation
T45 Rear Roll Hoop With Diagonal And Stays ( optional full cage )
Fully Integrated Rear Chassis Section For Improved Fuel Tank Protection, With Crushable Rear Structure To Absorb Rear Impacts.
Easily Removable Rosejointed Rear Strut Brace, To Enable Quick Differential Change.
Side Bracing For Greater Protection In Side Impacts
Easily Adjustable Front And Rear Tracking.
Easily Adjustable Front And Rear Camber.
Easily Adjustable Front And Rear Castor.
Easily Adjustable Front And Rear Stagger.
Floor Mounted Pedal Box With Brake Balance Adjuster.
EViS - 25/3/06 at 07:56 PM
quote:
well im doing a zetec doner version and so far the list is as follows!
Engine £200, Omex ecu, throttle bodies £1800, raceleada hubs £850, sierra LSD diff 4x4 rear beam and gear box £100, £120 re brake refurb, seats £400,
steering setup and handbrake £40
plus all the stuff not in the kit but available from mnr like wiring loom, carbon upgrades, fuel tank lights etc came to nearly another £1000
all in all im bout £8-10k for finishing project if that helps
My zetec would be budgeted at around £80, and a donor sierra at around £150.
On a budget build, Omex ecu & throttle bodies (£1800) wouldn't be needed, correct? Doesn't a zetec engine already have its own ford
ecu?
And the remainder can be taken out of a £150 sierra donor, no?
G.Man - 25/3/06 at 08:44 PM
from the sierra donor you will need steering column with switchgear and shroud, front uprights, engine (if you want it), gearbox for either stock
motor or zetec, diff, drive shafts, brakes front and rear, fuses and relays, steering wheel..(wheels and tyres are useful until you aquire your new
ones)
Extra parts you will need for the car will be wiring loom, lights, seats, seatbelts, instruments, propshaft, handbrake cable, radiator, hoses, engine
wiring loom and ecu (may get with the zetec) hoses, exhaust system, wheels, tyres and a battery, preferably light weight....
The main differences between the RT and RT+ will be the rollcage CDS/T45 polly bushed/rose jointed suspension, I believe either can take the cortina
uprights, but Marc may correct me on this, if you can get a set of cortina front uprights, bite the persons hand off, or ask marc about the new
prototypes...
You should be able to put a respectable car together with car engine for around £5.5-6k.. You just need to be a show whore...
EViS - 25/3/06 at 09:03 PM
That was MOST helpful, thanks!
Would it not be possible to put a 'respectable' one together for a max budget of £4k 
. Or are you going by RRP prices of parts, and not
ebay and scrapyard ones ?
Also, how do cortina uprights differ to sierra ones? Not sure which doner car to buy here... do the parts from each differ much?
chockymonster - 26/3/06 at 01:07 AM
quote:
Originally posted by EViS
That was MOST helpful, thanks!
Would it not be possible to put a 'respectable' one together for a max budget of £4k . Or are you going by RRP prices of parts, and not
ebay and scrapyard ones ?
Also, how do cortina uprights differ to sierra ones? Not sure which doner car to buy here... do the parts from each differ much?
The cortina ones are lighter and allow better geometry settings than the sierra.
The sierra used a macpherson strut setup and the cortina used a wishbone and coil setup which is exactly what vortx etc uses.
From what I understand, the problem using the sierra upright is that in the original setup the upright swung with the strut which kept camber
constant, with a wishbone design the upright rotates with the balljoint and camber changes when steering. If you use the cortina upright you
don't have this problem. Bear in mind that this is what I've read since deciding to build so don't take it too much as gospel!
Another thing to point out is that Hyundai made the Stellar based on the cortina, if you look at the early stellar 1 it's using the cortina
wishbone setup.
As for the 4k budget, I think you'd be pushing it but then it depends on how you want the car to look and how quickly you want it done.
If you're a "got to do it now" type of person then I think you'll find it hard, but if you're prepared to do the harder bits
yourself and set realistic targets then I suppose it could be done.
I've set myself a tight budget on the RT+ of £8,500, that may move a bit but my plan is to get the car running and then upgrade as I grow into
the car. That way I can keep improving instead of building a fantastic car with everything I want and then having limited upgrade options. If you
approach it the same way then I suppose it could be done. Talk to Marc or Chris, they'll give you a better idea of what you can acheive.
EViS - 26/3/06 at 01:22 AM
I know someone who is currently building a Luego with a budget set at £4k, and it seems like he will keep to this target. Is there any reason for why
an MNR (or any other manufacturer for that matter) would cost more to build than a said Luego?
[Edited on 26/3/06 by EViS]
G.Man - 26/3/06 at 05:42 AM
depends how much you save on all the extra bits I mentioned...
Its down to your bargain hunting ability, not the make...
chockymonster - 26/3/06 at 07:56 AM
quote:
Originally posted by G.Man
depends how much you save on all the extra bits I mentioned...
Its down to your bargain hunting ability, not the make...
And your ability to resist the nice pretty shiny bits!
G.Man - 26/3/06 at 08:18 AM
I covet the precious things..
Krismc - 26/3/06 at 09:01 AM
quote:
Dedicated Car Engine And Bike Engine Chassis
Fully Rosejointed Independant Suspension All Round.
Chassis Constructed From Round Section 16 & 18 Guage Tubing.
Lighter And Stiffer Construction
Triangulated And Braced Front And Rear Floor Pans
Additional Rear Bulkead And Diff Area Triangulation
Additional Front Bulkead And Foot Area Triangulation
T45 Rear Roll Hoop With Diagonal And Stays ( optional full cage )
Fully Integrated Rear Chassis Section For Improved Fuel Tank Protection, With Crushable Rear Structure To Absorb Rear Impacts.
Easily Removable Rosejointed Rear Strut Brace, To Enable Quick Differential Change.
Side Bracing For Greater Protection In Side Impacts
Easily Adjustable Front And Rear Tracking.
Easily Adjustable Front And Rear Camber.
Easily Adjustable Front And Rear Castor.
Easily Adjustable Front And Rear Stagger.
Floor Mounted Pedal Box With Brake Balance Adjuster.
Are you sure thats supposed to be in the kit. ive just read the leaflets ive got and it says that too but im sure you have to pay a extra £245.!!
........confirmed i payed extra for that
[Edited on 26/3/06 by Krismc]
G.Man - 26/3/06 at 09:28 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Krismc
quote:
Dedicated Car Engine And Bike Engine Chassis
Fully Rosejointed Independant Suspension All Round.
Chassis Constructed From Round Section 16 & 18 Guage Tubing.
Lighter And Stiffer Construction
Triangulated And Braced Front And Rear Floor Pans
Additional Rear Bulkead And Diff Area Triangulation
Additional Front Bulkead And Foot Area Triangulation
T45 Rear Roll Hoop With Diagonal And Stays ( optional full cage )
Fully Integrated Rear Chassis Section For Improved Fuel Tank Protection, With Crushable Rear Structure To Absorb Rear Impacts.
Easily Removable Rosejointed Rear Strut Brace, To Enable Quick Differential Change.
Side Bracing For Greater Protection In Side Impacts
Easily Adjustable Front And Rear Tracking.
Easily Adjustable Front And Rear Camber.
Easily Adjustable Front And Rear Castor.
Easily Adjustable Front And Rear Stagger.
Floor Mounted Pedal Box With Brake Balance Adjuster.
Are you sure thats supposed to be in the kit. ive just read the leaflets ive got and it says that too but im sure you have to pay a extra £245.!!
........confirmed i payed extra for that
[Edited on 26/3/06 by Krismc]
Depends on the package you bought, MNR did some show special packs that included the pedal box and some that didnt...
G.Man - 26/3/06 at 09:34 AM
quote:
Originally posted by chockymonster
quote:
Originally posted by Krismc
quote:
removable rear rose jointed brace to allow easy diff
where or what???
I dunno! my kit hasn't been made yet but it's part of the specs on MNR's site
I thought that was only with the vortx super, but it has been included on the RT+
Either its a new addition, or an incorrect copy and paste onto the new website..
chockymonster - 26/3/06 at 09:42 AM
quote:
Originally posted by G.Man
quote:
Originally posted by chockymonster
quote:
Originally posted by Krismc
quote:
removable rear rose jointed brace to allow easy diff
where or what???
I dunno! my kit hasn't been made yet but it's part of the specs on MNR's site
I thought that was only with the vortx super, but it has been included on the RT+
Either its a new addition, or an incorrect copy and paste onto the new website..
I'll check with Chris on monday on that, as for the pedal box I thought it came with the kit too, but I've still had to order one?
[Edited on 26/3/06 by chockymonster]
Krismc - 26/3/06 at 10:07 AM
quote:
I'll check with Chris on monday on that, as for the pedal box I thought it came with the kit too, but I've still had to order one?
strange
EViS - 26/3/06 at 11:40 AM
quote:
Originally posted by G.Man
depends how much you save on all the extra bits I mentioned...
Its down to your bargain hunting ability, not the make...
Although the Luego Budget Blaster Package costs £1,950 inc Vat. Whilst the MNR Starter Kit is £2795 inc Vat.
For that additional £800 I'm sure I could get most of the additional parts together... although granted that the MNR GRP is fully powder coated,
something that the Luego isn't and i'll have to get done...
marc n - 26/3/06 at 11:49 AM
hi guys
yep some of the info isnt quite correct on the web ( thats this weeks mission ) last weeks was the build manual , the pedal carcass is included in the
kit pedals / mc etc are not in the standard kits, altough the standard kit lists are not set in stone as i dont think any 1 kit we have supplied has
been the same due to individual requirements
best regards
marc
Krismc - 26/3/06 at 01:21 PM
cheers for clearing that up marc!!
ps i still aint got a build manual or a link that works, is it not quite done yet??
marc n - 26/3/06 at 01:26 PM
hi chris yes its done but cant work out how to place it on our website
going to try and sort it out on monday morning with the kind offer of assistance from chocky monster , you can downlaoad it from chris walters
site, i will u2u the password to veiw it
marc n - 26/3/06 at 01:27 PM
u2u now sent
amalyos - 26/3/06 at 04:19 PM
If there's anyone down south that wants to see the MNR without the 5hr ride up North, your welcome to come and see my build. I've got the
RT+, fitting the R1 engine.
I'm in Essex (no fluffy dice yet)
Just U2U me.
Steve.
RogerL - 22/4/06 at 04:30 AM
Question for Krismc or anyone using Zetec engine:
I am building a VortX RT+ with a Zetec engine and Ford T9 transmission.
What is the best deal on bellhousing to fit this
combination ?
Caterham sells an alloy bellhousing. Raceline also makes an alloy bellhousing plus sump and other nice bits.
G.Man - 22/4/06 at 07:11 AM
shouldnt the stock ford bellhousing fit?
Ford have never changed their bellhousings as I understand it
Krismc - 22/4/06 at 08:55 AM
Stock bellhousing from type 9, FRS 122 starter motor and a pinto lightend flywheel, and you will have too change to Hydrualic clutch to fit into a
VORTX (unless you want to lose leg room) this is a simple kit form from burton power! all the best
KRIS