My wife's C3 diesel was recalled a few weeks ago to have the big end shells replaced. It has been fine since until today. There was a big bang
and the car started shaking. The engine was idling lumpily when we switched it off. We stopped and I looked under the front to see a whole lot of
oil pouring off the front of the engine block. When it was up on the towing dolly (4 hours later 
) the breakdown guy and I looked underneath.
Apart from being greasy, there was no obvious sign of damage. No holes. No bits missing or loose. What do you think has let go? Points will be
awarded once the dealer who did the recall work has had fixed it again.
[Edited on 22-12-2012 by smart51]
crankshaft has let go, as the bolts were not tightened up
[Edited on 22/12/12 by steve m]
Spun a big end, thrust bearing let go, pushed crank forward, oil seal popped, oil floods out
Crankshaft bearing gone due to oil starvation which bent the oil pan.
Rod through the side of the block.
[Edited on 22/12/12 by CRAIGR]
quote:
Originally posted by CRAIGR
Rod through the side of the block.
[Edited on 22/12/12 by CRAIGR]
quote:
Originally posted by ReMan
quote:
Originally posted by CRAIGR
Rod through the side of the block.
[Edited on 22/12/12 by CRAIGR]
+1
quote:
Originally posted by smart51
the breakdown guy and I looked underneath. Apart from being greasy, there was no obvious sign of damage. No holes. No bits missing or loose.
It' French!
It will be because the cheese melted !!
quote:
Originally posted by I predict a Riot
It' French!
It will be because the cheese melted !!
quote:
Originally posted by blakep82
i'm not so sure...
oil seal seems quite possible, as above
quote:
Originally posted by MikeRJ
quote:
Originally posted by blakep82
i'm not so sure...
oil seal seems quite possible, as above
An oil seal failing wouldn't cause a big bang followed by the engine running roughly. It's thrown a rod. Probably the numpty that replaced the bearings didn't torque up the big end bolts correctly.
Modern engine bays are tight as hell, its quite possible its thrown something through the block that cant be seen behind panels, ac/pas/collant pipework and the 101 other components 'needed' for moden engines.
rod
Conrod.
My 306 once through a conrod when it ran itself to near 8k RPM (this was a DIESEL) on its own engine oil with runaway throttle.
Would still idle and drive, and actually didn't lose too much oil, impressive how well they can idle on 3 cylinders.
P.s. a rod through the block can leave a surprisingly neat/small hole..
Turbo oil feed turbo seized, come on don't keep us in suspenders.
Rod through the block.
Happened on my type r and couldn't see it till other parts where out tthe way.
Rod/Crank
They either haven't replaced the big end bolts when they should have done or they haven't tightened them correctly.
Or they didn't check the crank journals when replacing the shells and its started to knock slightly before complete failure
(being a diesel it might not have been heard ? )
Hopefully the main dealer will accept liability and not try and blame something else....
+1 for it's French xD
I'm going to say someone engaged a random improbability drive which improbably removed one of the pistons, the ensuing detonation cause it to
blow an oil gasket and it blew loads of oil out the bottom.
another +1 for rod thro' block, you just can't see the hole cos it's hidden behind something!
I'll go for the rod option.
Adding the main dealer trying to pretend it was nothing to do with their work and attempting to invoice £2k for a new engine.
[Edited on 23/12/12 by iank]
Citroen
Search results (1–3 of 32) New search
Recall: No. 1 of 32
Recall Ref: R/2010/192
Exact Model: C1, C3 & Nemo
Description: ENGINE MAY FAIL
VIN: VF7******AA591443 to VF7******89739019
Build Date: 10/05/2010 to 17/10/2010
Numbers: 72
Defect: Due to incorrect machining, it is possible that the crankshaft is not to the correct specification, which can lead to insufficient lubrication
of the crankshaft and subsequent engine failure.
Action: Recall all affected vehicles and replace the engine.
Launch Date: 05 November 2010
Just the shells then?
quote:
Originally posted by ReMan
Citroen
Search results (1–3 of 32) New search
Recall: No. 1 of 32
Recall Ref: R/2010/192
Exact Model: C1, C3 & Nemo
Description: ENGINE MAY FAIL
VIN: VF7******AA591443 to VF7******89739019
Build Date: 10/05/2010 to 17/10/2010
Numbers: 72
Defect: Due to incorrect machining, it is possible that the crankshaft is not to the correct specification, which can lead to insufficient lubrication of the crankshaft and subsequent engine failure.
Action: Recall all affected vehicles and replace the engine.
Launch Date: 05 November 2010
Just the shells then?
First thing that came up on a google
link
Apart from the banter I did genuinely woder wtf would be a recall for shells?
My guess is a broken rod through the block possibly due to big end issue.
Coming from the evo scene this was common. My mates evo 9 let go at spa due to the con rod bolts coming loose
Because they were not torqued properly. That made a real mess bits of rod piston and block all over the place!
quote:
Originally posted by ReMan
First thing that came up on a google
link
Apart from the banter I did genuinely woder wtf would be a recall for shells?
Found out it is this recall. The action was to replace the big end shells. They lasted 3 weeks. I'm guessing it will be hard for them to duck
this one.
Vehicle Details
Reference : R/2012/129
Manufacturer Ref : MQM
Make: CITROEN
Model : C1,C3 Pluriel, C3 II, C3, DS3 and Nemo
Launch Date : 14/11/2012
Numbers Involved : 1169
Build Start Date : 26/05/2010
Build End Date : 26/08/2010
Recall Details
Concern : ENGINE MAY FAIL
Description : It has been established that the con-rod (big end) shell bearings may not have been manufactured to specification. This could lead to
premature deterioration of the shells and if not identified, then engine failure could result.
Remedial Action : Recall all affected and replace con-rod shell bearings.
Spoke to the repair centre today. A con rod has snapped punching a hole in the block. He said the recall was to fit oversize big end shells to make up for an undersize crank. Citroen have told him to measure the crank, which he will do this afternoon. It looks like they've fitted the oversize shells to an engine that didn't need them and one of them siezed, causing the con rod to snap.
Ouch.
on the plus side that will be a free new engine then if there is any justice!
quote:
Originally posted by smart51
Spoke to the repair centre today. A con rod has snapped punching a hole in the block. He said the recall was to fit oversize big end shells to make up for an undersize crank. Citroen have told him to measure the crank, which he will do this afternoon. It looks like they've fitted the oversize shells to an engine that didn't need them and one of them siezed, causing the con rod to snap.
quote:
Originally posted by britishtrident
quote:
Originally posted by smart51
Spoke to the repair centre today. A con rod has snapped punching a hole in the block. He said the recall was to fit oversize big end shells to make up for an undersize crank. Citroen have told him to measure the crank, which he will do this afternoon. It looks like they've fitted the oversize shells to an engine that didn't need them and one of them siezed, causing the con rod to snap.
And nobody had a though to try turning it over by hand before sending it out of the door...
So they fitted new shells and didn't measure the crank and check for ovality, nor did they check the bearing clearance 
You were probably very lucky it lasted as long as it did, Not your problem its theirs, New engine please 
Incompetent work done by a main dealer, how surprising! (Not)
Lets hope they are capable of fitting a new engine without messing things up.
quote:
Originally posted by smart51
We'd driven it for 3 weeks after the original work was done, but the day it broke was the fist time it had been driven on the motorway. Thankfully it didn't let go on the M42.
Citroen have agreed to pay for the repair, which includes the lower half of the engine case. The parts are on their way. I'd have thought it a
fine balance, replacing the parts and paying someone to rebuild vs the OEM cost of a new engine. It must only be slightly cheaper to repair.
[Edited on 11-1-2013 by smart51]
quote:
Originally posted by CRAIGR
Rod through the side of the block.
Where do i claim my prize
sdh2903 - 11/1/13 at 04:55 PMif it were me, I wouldn't be happy with that. I'd be pushing for a new engine. look what happened the last time they opened it up. Plus if there are any further problems post rebuild it will be a minefield of who's responsible.
You have them bang to rights, new engine please!
MikeRJ - 11/1/13 at 04:58 PMquote:
Originally posted by smart51
Citroen have agreed to pay for the repair, which includes the lower half of the engine case. The parts are on their way. I'd have thought it a fine balance, replacing the parts and paying someone to rebuild vs the OEM cost of a new engine. It must only be slightly cheaper to repair.
They obviously won't be repairing the bottom end, it will be a new short engine.
sdh2903 - 11/1/13 at 05:02 PMThe op says includes new engine case, implies they are rebuilding rather than replacing the short motor.
britishtrident - 12/1/13 at 10:13 AMLawyer's letter required you are entitled to a FULL BRAND NEW ENGINE fitted by another dealer as the existing dealer has proven to be not capable of doing major engine work.
perksy - 12/1/13 at 10:24 AMI'd of thought from a labour cost point of view it would be better for them to fit a complete new engine ?
I'd be very twitchy if the same garage were going to rebuild only the bottom end.
They might even let one of the Apprentices on it for some practice
britishtrident - 12/1/13 at 10:30 AMquote:
Originally posted by smart51
Citroen have agreed to pay for the repair, which includes the lower half of the engine case. The parts are on their way. I'd have thought it a fine balance, replacing the parts and paying someone to rebuild vs the OEM cost of a new engine. It must only be slightly cheaper to repair.
[Edited on 11-1-2013 by smart51]
You are not to blame they damaged your car responsibility is shared between the manufacturer and the dealer, the manufacturer ordered the work and the dealer was incompetent.
They are patching up the engine ----- go to a lawyer and demand either a a full new factory engine + compensation or they pay you a very decent sum to buy the car off you.
[Edited on 12/1/13 by britishtrident]
MikeRJ - 12/1/13 at 11:11 AMquote:
Originally posted by sdh2903
The op says includes new engine case, implies they are rebuilding rather than replacing the short motor.
That simply wouldn't be viable, it's got a broken con rod from a seized big end so crank will be scrap as well. By the time they price up the numerous parts and main dealer labour rates to put it together a new short engine will be much cheaper.
snakebelly - 12/1/13 at 01:26 PMAre you sure it's not just the dealer doing the work off his own back to avoid involving the manufacturer and the subsequent embarrassment? As already stated I would definitely push for at least a full factory recon unit with a stated warranty, are they going to change the oil pump or reuse the old one? Are they replacing all the rods and pistons or just the broken one? It's a minefield for you should something else let go in say 3 months time, you can bet your house on them denying at that stage any responsibility.
coyoteboy - 12/1/13 at 04:44 PMTBH if they did that to mine I'd rather have a guaranteed used engine than a partially rebuilt one (but I don't trust other people rebuilding car bits).
smart51 - 17/1/13 at 10:39 AMWell, good news / bad news. The good news is they can't get parts to fix the old engine so they've been authorised to replace with a brand new engine. Bad news: they can't get one of those either. They were promised one for the 18th (tomorrow) but have been told it ain't coming for at least a week. Meanwhile, their curtesy car is keeping the miles down on our car.
owelly - 17/1/13 at 11:55 AMGood result. Hope the courtesy car is a nice one. ;-)
britishtrident - 17/1/13 at 12:16 PMThey have effectively deprived you of the car by ruining the engine, you should demand some compensation or they keep the car and give you the full retail value of the car and compensation.