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tin top track car low budget
tjoh84 - 9/12/08 at 10:42 PM

after selling the 7 looking for a cheap hot hatch for road and track use any ideas what to go for been looking at clio 172 at mo about 2-3k

colt_mivec - 9/12/08 at 10:49 PM

Mitsubishi Colt CZT 150Bhp 1.5 Turbo Mivec

Remap and intercooler have seen 218hp

Mark G - 9/12/08 at 10:53 PM

I think you'd be hard pushed to beat a 1.9 205 GTI. They're pretty easy to find at a decent price and dont' cost the earth to fix if you wreck it.

Also you'll find a few out there with the MI16 conversions.

greggors84 - 9/12/08 at 11:00 PM

Have you seen any 172s for that money?

Thought they would be a bit more than that.

Depends if you want to do any work on it or straight out the box and go.

As said, if you start with a 205 1.9 GTi, fit some decent dampers (ebay) and decent track tyres. Strip out the interior of anything thats not needed (rear seats, carpets, sound deadening).

Not sure how much Mi16 engines go for these days but I would think if you did all the work yourself you could get a very nice handling 205 with loads of grunt for 2k. Even without the engine a 1.9 205 will give you huge amounts of fun on a track.

PAUL FISHER - 9/12/08 at 11:24 PM

I don't think you will go far wrong with a 172 clio,you can pick up a year 2000 clio for £1500,strip it out,decat the exhaust and fit a induction kit and you have got a 180+bhp little flying machine.
There's nothing wrong with the 205 gti's,but most of them are around 20 years old now,I looked at one which was rusting quite around the rear suspension mounts,put me off a bit,also the 1.9 gti are only 130bhp,you need to get a 16v motor fitted to get up to 160bhp,and throttle bodies to get to around 180 bhp.
See this thread here.

http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/viewthread.php?tid=100342

Here's a video of mine at Cadwell the other week,not great quality video,but a bit better if you click on "watch in high resolution".

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=UlMgk3aSVrw





[Edited on 19/05/04 by PAUL FISHER]

twybrow - 9/12/08 at 11:32 PM

Another vote for the 205 GTI... Get a good one and it won't go down in value either! The most fun I have ever had in a car (track day with our stripped 205 gti)....!

Simon - 10/12/08 at 12:48 AM

ZR160

ATB

Simon

mediabloke - 10/12/08 at 01:01 AM

FF or FR?

FF: Peugot 306 - easier to find than a 205? or an Astra F GSi - if you can find an un-chavved one - for redtop-powered fun...?

FR: an old 328 manual Beemer, no question. Strip it, cage it, brace it and abuse it. The drift boys love them. Getting a 330 or M3 wouldn't be cheap, but only a kit car would give me a wider grin!

Francis

[Edited on 10/12/08 by mediabloke]

liam.mccaffrey - 10/12/08 at 01:05 AM

i just bought a 205 mi16 road rally car very fun

James - 10/12/08 at 08:46 AM

quote:
Originally posted by greggors84
Even without the engine a 1.9 205 will give you huge amounts of fun on a track.


You have to be pushing really hard if you want to overtake anyone though!



Cheers,
James

stu da rude - 10/12/08 at 08:57 AM

205 ftw



I built that for approx 2.5k, ill pm you the full spec if you're interested buddy.

MK9R - 10/12/08 at 09:16 AM

My mate who i go on trackdays with has had loads of track prepped 205's, which when they were working were great, but they just let him down over and over again. He ended up with a 53 plate 172 cup, totally standard, which was as good as the prepped 205 on thetrack. Cars have come on a lot in the past 20 years, and the 172 is better than a 205 GTI. Although the 172 did break down a few times, but mainly due to the renault garage who did the warranty work not knowing their arse from their elbow (the did the alternator belt up so tight it twanged like an elastic band!!!!)

nick205 - 10/12/08 at 09:45 AM

For that sort of money you should be able to pick up a 306 GTI6 in suitable order for stripping and tracking.

The 205's will always be a bit of a benchmark (and a particular favourite of mine, hence my username) but as said they're getting old now and unless you're a real fan there are definitely younger, quicker and more reliable choices of car.

On the flip side a good 205 will hold it's value well if maintained

Jubal - 10/12/08 at 12:10 PM

I have had a 205 in the past (Mi16). Mine was OK but I got bored quickly. Also, I was lucky I never saw any oil surge issues (except the light coming on round Cascades!!) but many do with Mi16 engines. I like the clio option, Cat d 172 seem to go for 2-2.5k. Not heard anything about them letting go on track.

I also think an MR2 Mk2 Rev 3 Turbo is vfm at about 2.5k for a tatty one if you fit in one. Can get down to about 1000kg wet and mid engine rwd, 240bhp. It will still be slow compared to a bec but not miles off a blade car. Will eat tyres and brakes tho, so budget for that.

Richard Quinn - 10/12/08 at 12:36 PM

quote:
Originally posted by nick205
The 205's will always be a bit of a benchmark (and a particular favourite of mine, hence my username)
and I always thought it was because the later Pinto block was a particular favourite of yours

will121 - 10/12/08 at 12:48 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Jubal
I also think an MR2 Mk2 Rev 3 Turbo is vfm at about 2.5k for a tatty one if you fit in one. Can get down to about 1000kg wet and mid engine rwd, 240bhp.


PPC Mag done a report of budget track cars and the MR2 came out quite good, ive got a fiesta with a 2litre zetec fitted, done 4 track days and only issue is a clutch, to cut down the potential options deciding on front or rear wheel drive be a start.

Danozeman - 10/12/08 at 12:53 PM

306 rallye!! Throw the seats away u dont want and away yo go!!!

James - 10/12/08 at 01:01 PM

quote:
Originally posted by greggors84
Even without the engine a 1.9 205 will give you huge amounts of fun on a track.


You have to be pushing really hard if you want to overtake anyone though!



Cheers,
James

locoboy - 10/12/08 at 01:04 PM

<---------
Lowered
Recon rear beam
Full weld in cage
Buckets
Sticky tyres
Harnesses
MOT and still taxed

Yours for £1600!

[Edited on 10/12/08 by locoboy]

carpmart - 10/12/08 at 02:21 PM

What about an Impreza? You can pick up an imported STi V1 or V2 for £3k which will have a red top engine so 280 bhp. They have water injection as standard, close ratio box, larger intercooler etc etc

Put it on a bit of a diet and maybe up the boost a little and you have 300bhp+ per ton.

Actually, I think I might go down this route myself!

MK9R - 10/12/08 at 02:49 PM

quote:
Originally posted by carpmart
What about an Impreza? You can pick up an imported STi V1 or V2 for £3k which will have a red top engine so 280 bhp. They have water injection as standard, close ratio box, larger intercooler etc etc

Put it on a bit of a diet and maybe up the boost a little and you have 300bhp+ per ton.

Actually, I think I might go down this route myself!



running cost on track for an impreza are horrific, 25 laps of the nurburg ring cost me over £1k in consumables!!! 2.5 sets of pads, 1 x warped disks and 4 tyres!! And thats on a circuit fast and not hard on brakes!! Take it somewhere tight and twisty and it will kill a set of tires and disks in less than a day!!

carpmart - 10/12/08 at 03:05 PM

quote:
Originally posted by MK9R
quote:
Originally posted by carpmart
What about an Impreza? You can pick up an imported STi V1 or V2 for £3k which will have a red top engine so 280 bhp. They have water injection as standard, close ratio box, larger intercooler etc etc

Put it on a bit of a diet and maybe up the boost a little and you have 300bhp+ per ton.

Actually, I think I might go down this route myself!



running cost on track for an impreza are horrific, 25 laps of the nurburg ring cost me over £1k in consumables!!! 2.5 sets of pads, 1 x warped disks and 4 tyres!! And thats on a circuit fast and not hard on brakes!! Take it somewhere tight and twisty and it will kill a set of tires and disks in less than a day!!


What makes it so hard on the brakes? Have you upgraded them? Also, why would this be so much different to run from a brake perspective than a 205, clio etc? Is it just that these components cost that bit more as they are for an Impreza?

Tyres would be a consumable on any track day and there are hard and soft ways to use tyres. It seems logical to me that four tyres delivering traction should lead to more balanced wear across the set as opposed to a two wheel drive car, do you agree?

MK9R - 10/12/08 at 03:22 PM

quote:
Originally posted by carpmart
quote:
Originally posted by MK9R
quote:
Originally posted by carpmart
What about an Impreza? You can pick up an imported STi V1 or V2 for £3k which will have a red top engine so 280 bhp. They have water injection as standard, close ratio box, larger intercooler etc etc

Put it on a bit of a diet and maybe up the boost a little and you have 300bhp+ per ton.

Actually, I think I might go down this route myself!



running cost on track for an impreza are horrific, 25 laps of the nurburg ring cost me over £1k in consumables!!! 2.5 sets of pads, 1 x warped disks and 4 tyres!! And thats on a circuit fast and not hard on brakes!! Take it somewhere tight and twisty and it will kill a set of tires and disks in less than a day!!


What makes it so hard on the brakes? Have you upgraded them? Also, why would this be so much different to run from a brake perspective than a 205, clio etc? Is it just that these components cost that bit more as they are for an Impreza?

Tyres would be a consumable on any track day and there are hard and soft ways to use tyres. It seems logical to me that four tyres delivering traction should lead to more balanced wear across the set as opposed to a two wheel drive car, do you agree?


One major thing - Weight! 205's are about 800kg, imprezas are about 1300kg (IIRC), the heavier the car the quicker everything wears out. Then the cost of everything is so much higher, standard discs are about £140 each, reasonble pads are £100 a set (but can pay double) , tyres are £100 a corner. The impreza is very hard on tires if driven "intrestingly"

Oh, and my impreza was doing 80miles on a full tank at the ring!!!!

They are great cars on the road, but on track they are just too heavy in standard form.

To put this all in perspective, my ST is still on the same set of halfords brake pads after 9 track days (and they weren't new when i started), and i've only bought 6 tyres (and the 4 i started with were shagged)

[Edited on 10/12/08 by MK9R]

[Edited on 10/12/08 by MK9R]

dubstar_04 - 10/12/08 at 03:33 PM

I know where there is a nice MI16 205 for sale. It needs a bit of tinkering with but its driveable and they guy who owns it will probably part with it for very little cash!!.

loggyboy - 10/12/08 at 05:08 PM

If you are gonna consider a car as old as the 205 (mi16 or 1.9 6v) then its also worth considering a Red topped Nova. Obviously im bias, but they can be made in to serious track weapons and arguebley the C20XE is a better engine and i'd guess more common than the Mi16.

WIth carefull part hunting you could make a basic 'Valver'd' Nova for about £500 (i did) and you could make a V.good track spec for way under £1500

Check out these examples:

http://www.pngclub.com/forum/showthread.php?t=85108

http://www.pngclub.com/forum/showthread.php?t=77794
http://www.pngclub.com/forum/showthread.php?t=96402

carpmart - 10/12/08 at 05:23 PM

quote:
Originally posted by MK9R
quote:
Originally posted by carpmart
quote:
Originally posted by MK9R
quote:
Originally posted by carpmart
What about an Impreza? You can pick up an imported STi V1 or V2 for £3k which will have a red top engine so 280 bhp. They have water injection as standard, close ratio box, larger intercooler etc etc

Put it on a bit of a diet and maybe up the boost a little and you have 300bhp+ per ton.

Actually, I think I might go down this route myself!



running cost on track for an impreza are horrific, 25 laps of the nurburg ring cost me over £1k in consumables!!! 2.5 sets of pads, 1 x warped disks and 4 tyres!! And thats on a circuit fast and not hard on brakes!! Take it somewhere tight and twisty and it will kill a set of tires and disks in less than a day!!


What makes it so hard on the brakes? Have you upgraded them? Also, why would this be so much different to run from a brake perspective than a 205, clio etc? Is it just that these components cost that bit more as they are for an Impreza?

Tyres would be a consumable on any track day and there are hard and soft ways to use tyres. It seems logical to me that four tyres delivering traction should lead to more balanced wear across the set as opposed to a two wheel drive car, do you agree?


One major thing - Weight! 205's are about 800kg, imprezas are about 1300kg (IIRC), the heavier the car the quicker everything wears out. Then the cost of everything is so much higher, standard discs are about £140 each, reasonble pads are £100 a set (but can pay double) , tyres are £100 a corner. The impreza is very hard on tires if driven "intrestingly"

Oh, and my impreza was doing 80miles on a full tank at the ring!!!!

They are great cars on the road, but on track they are just too heavy in standard form.

To put this all in perspective, my ST is still on the same set of halfords brake pads after 9 track days (and they weren't new when i started), and i've only bought 6 tyres (and the 4 i started with were shagged)

[Edited on 10/12/08 by MK9R]

[Edited on 10/12/08 by MK9R]


OK I see why you had a bad experience with 'consumables' on your impreza! A standard car will never make a good track car. The original poster asked for ideas for a track car. I refer you to my original post where I suggested stripping the car so I never saw the 'track car' the OP wants as being standard. I therefore respectfully suggest that your experience is not 100% relevant.

I understand 'stuff' wears out quicker with more mass to stop, accelerate etc. I am pretty sure I could strip an early STi down to a ton in weight without going too mad. The OP wanted a track car not a road car so I think it could still be a possibility.

Why are you using tyres at 100 quid a corner on a track car? I would get some old shitters on there if I was going aggressive driving style or some 888's if I was going for some more 'finessfull' track fun. Either option is no where near 100 each corner. My fury is harder on tyres than a track day E30 325i I had but then my E39 5 series can scrub out some rear Potenza's or Verdestad (can't spell) in a few thousand miles on the road. My fireblade powered Drakart gets through part worn 7 inch slicks in two or three 10 min sessions. It all depends on the tyre and how you use them.

H

nick205 - 16/12/08 at 08:59 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Richard Quinn
quote:
Originally posted by nick205
The 205's will always be a bit of a benchmark (and a particular favourite of mine, hence my username)
and I always thought it was because the later Pinto block was a particular favourite of yours


Don't get me wrong I'm partial to a nice Pinto too, but not enough to build a username around it