Alez
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| posted on 18/6/04 at 10:06 AM |
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Tiny scary cars these are
Hi,
I now have some hours of Locost driving on the road and as I'm now used to it I can see better how different it feels from a normal road car.
My daily driver is a Golf II, I feel comfortable, safe on the road and with total control over the small holes and bumps of the roads here up to say
85-110 mph depending on the road / highway.
Now, exact same road on the Locost and I start to feel unsafe say at 60-70 mph! If I tried to reach 85-110 mph I could jump anywhere anytime I reckon.
Any bump turns my steering wheel (the same bump at the same speed would not move my Golf's steering wheel at all), lifts the car up making it
rev up and things.
Why is that? Much smaller wheelbase? Much lighter car? Much stiffer suspension? Smaller overall wheel diameter? Also, is your experience the same
(particularly BECs like mine, which are generally lighter)? Is this just a feeling due to having much more feedback or is it really much more
dangerous for the same speed?
Cheers,
Alex
[Edit Edit Edit]
PS: Needless to say I can't take a roundabout at 60 mph with the Golf!! It's about straights I'm talking about here..
[Edited on 18/6/04 by Alez]
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David Jenkins
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| posted on 18/6/04 at 10:13 AM |
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For a start, you're much closer to the ground and this, plus the open cockpit, gives a far greater impression of speed. Most modern cars
insulate you from the real world (one cause of excessive speed and foolish behaviour, in my view)
As for jumping around - do you have excessive bump steer? That won't help stability.
In my admittedly limited experience (as a passenger in the IsonBlade!) I found it remarkably smooth and stable...
cheers,
David
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spunky
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| posted on 18/6/04 at 10:50 AM |
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IMHO. If the bump steer is excessive I'd say you my need some adjustment on your geometry.
I'd heard about these cars being 'twitchy' but have been very surprised at how stable mine is. One hand on the wheel the other on
the stick over some pretty lousy B roads. Front axle weight is only 210Kg and suspension is set hard.
John
The reckless man may not live as long......
But the cautious man does not live at all.....
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Terrapin_racing
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| posted on 18/6/04 at 10:51 AM |
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Hey - have you checked for bump steer on the suspension! - if not eliminated you car will be very hairy to drive! - especially on those spanish roads
http://www.racerpartswholesale.com/longtech3.htm
http://www.stockcarproducts.com/tech1n.htm
[Edited on 18/6/04 by Terrapin_racing]
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zilspeed
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| posted on 18/6/04 at 11:15 AM |
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All of the above is undoubtedly true, but even if your car can be made to have zero bump steer, it will still feel unpleasant on really bumpy roads.
Unfortunately, there are loads of those around here.
I hate to say it, but there are certain roads around here which can be covered far more quickly in my passat which is nothing less than a motorised
sofa.
I am the biggest fan of the lotus seven concept that ever walked the earth - no doubt about it. Have had them in my blood all of my days and have
usually got a huge blindspot to their weaknesses.
The bottom line is - IMHO - they need the right road to work well. Smooth dry tarmac it will work well. Anything less and it is not the best machine
for the job.
Personally I love mine - it is nothing less than the fulfillment of a boyhood dream - but on the wrong road, it's as much use as a chocolate
fireguard.
On a racetrack or a bit of good public road ? unbeatable.
Must go - bodywork to polish and brakes to fettle. The weekend is nearly here and my silly little compromised car is calling on me
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Hellfire
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| posted on 18/6/04 at 11:19 AM |
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Alez,
I would suggest getting your front wheels tracked properly and see if this makes a difference. 
We had experiences similar to what you describe. Now its tracked properly, it is really stable. You'd be surprised just what a difference it
makes
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locoboy
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| posted on 18/6/04 at 11:44 AM |
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I think its a confidence issue, i travel 7 miles on reasonably twisty B road complete with bumps and raised roadwork scars to work every morning
before i get to the A road and dual carriageway. I can safely say that my 1.6 focus driven by me is quicker to the end of the B road than my 2.0 pinto
F27 again driven be me.
Why? i have lots more confidence in the focus, frontwheel drive, softer more forgiving suspension, power steering etc etc. Then we get to the A roads
and dual carriage way with roundabouts and short straights .....................now its a different story, its horses for courses im afraid.
Just someting i thought of, does anyone else feel safer hammering it round a right hand bend than a left hander? im talking public highway here not
closed track. I do purely because if it all goes wrong your in the hedge not the front of another car (especially in a RWD car). Add to this the fact
that i wouldnt be too fussed about running off the road into a hedge in my focus but i would in my F27!
And im sure we have all done handbrake turns, i feel far more in control and safer doing one to the right than to the left. Probably due to there
being a passenger or a passenger seat inbetween you and your final destination planned or unplanned!
ATB
Locoboy
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Alez
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| posted on 18/6/04 at 12:27 PM |
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Many thanks for your responses and views. I see there's more to it than "that's what this is like", I can try to eliminate
bump steer + I can try to improve front wheel tracking; all of that is good news.
The thing now is I have no clue about any of the 2 concepts, so any useful link to articles describing what those are and how to deal with them would
be great to have. I'll be searching the web to see what I can find but if you already have something or any useful tip, please advise..
The other thing is that roads here in Spain are, NOWADAYS, far better than in England  The situation here has changed a lot and, while we have
hundreds of things that are much much worse than what I found in the UK, roads are not one of them! Very especially in the capital of course, but
that's where I live
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Alez
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| posted on 18/6/04 at 12:39 PM |
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I've already found some info on steer bump browsing old threads..
http://www.7builder.com/SuspensionGeometry/BumpSteerDiscussion.html
http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/viewthread.php?tid=7350
Also I have some info on geometry (explanation about the meaning of "camber", "toe out" and stuff).
Couldn't find anything like "front wheel tracking" so far.. Clues?
Cheers,
Alex
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Hellfire
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| posted on 18/6/04 at 12:45 PM |
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Alez,
jack front end up and remove front wheels. Fasten a long piece of angle iron or similar straight edge to each wheel with the projections forward of
the car. (2m approx) Measure between the two straight edges at the nearest and furthest points. Adjust tracking until the measurements are the same.
This should be sufficient.
Set wheel camber to zero, using a spirit level or plumb line as a starting point. (Ensure car is horizontal first)
[Edited on 18-6-04 by Hellfire]
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richijenkin
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| posted on 18/6/04 at 12:48 PM |
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Ive heard of this problem before, having to hold on to the steering wheel quite tightly just to keep it in a straight line. some people have fixed
this by swaping the front wishbones around??
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Alez
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| posted on 18/6/04 at 12:56 PM |
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Thanks again! After a first read of the article I posted the link for and after reading all your posts, I think I've spotted what the problem
may be. Basically I have quite a lot of toe out, I knew that this would make it difficult to keep the car in a straight line but I didn't find
it uncomfortable (in perfect roads) and I was not clever enough to think about the obvious implication should one of the wheels *leave* the ground!!
(real roads)  I was not linking my problem to this. Fortunately it's friday today so perfect plan for the weekend.
Many thanks!
PS: Originally (as Tom -the previous owner- had it), the car had it's geometry set up purely for the track, hence the big toe out which gives
far better handling in bends.
[Edited on 18/6/04 by Alez]
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Hellfire
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| posted on 18/6/04 at 12:58 PM |
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You'll think you're driving a different car when its done! 
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Alez
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| posted on 18/6/04 at 01:00 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Hellfire
You'll think you're driving a different car when its done!
Thanks man!! I just hope it doesn't turn into something too different, say a Fiesta or something!!!
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zetec
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| posted on 20/6/04 at 07:28 PM |
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Also check them tyre presures 15-18lb works best for me. Also if you have adjustable dampers start really soft, one or two clicks and work your way
up, mine are no more than 5-7 clicks. Supple suspension and some flex in the tyres gives a ride on par with my wifes Alfa GTV! Fit a roll bar on the
front and it is still level thru the bends.
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greggors84
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| posted on 20/6/04 at 07:30 PM |
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Have you got the mk ARB fitted now zetec? Does it work well and is it easy to fit?
Chris
The Magnificent 7!
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Jon Ison
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| posted on 20/6/04 at 07:31 PM |
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Alez, whats with the pic ???
Looks like youve seen a ghost or was it the bump steer............
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Alez
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| posted on 21/6/04 at 01:55 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Jon Ison
Alez, whats with the pic ???
Looks like youve seen a ghost or was it the bump steer............
He he he he.. That was taken in a block of flats where I used to live sharing a flat with a bunch of mad musicians, we used to spend summers like
bloody teenagers
 
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Jasper
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| posted on 23/6/04 at 11:34 AM |
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Bloody mad Spaniards
I find mine does jump around a bit on very bumpy roads - this is magnified by having a quick-rack, sometimes I feel like I'm just hanging on!! I
would also agree that on really crap roads I'd rather be in the Volvo.
But when the surface is ok, and it's dry, it feels spot on. Definetly get the camber/toe set right, I have zero deg toe, and about .5 deg
camber.
It's well worth spending time playing with the damping, and few turns makes all the difference. The idiot(s) who used to post on here saying you
don't need damping adjustment are talking out of their arses, it's vital especially if you want to do track days.
[Edited on 23/6/04 by Jasper]
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Alez
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| posted on 24/6/04 at 09:47 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Jasper
Bloody mad Spaniards
I find mine does jump around a bit on very bumpy roads - this is magnified by having a quick-rack, sometimes I feel like I'm just hanging on!! I
would also agree that on really crap roads I'd rather be in the Volvo.
But when the surface is ok, and it's dry, it feels spot on. Definetly get the camber/toe set right, I have zero deg toe, and about .5 deg
camber.
It's well worth spending time playing with the damping, and few turns makes all the difference. The idiot(s) who used to post on here saying you
don't need damping adjustment are talking out of their arses, it's vital especially if you want to do track days.
[Edited on 23/6/04 by Jasper]
Just to tell you I had a good laugh with your post, Jasper Very funny text. Oh thanks for the advice as well, should be all helpful the upcoming
weekend.
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