mookaloid
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| posted on 8/3/11 at 07:45 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by designer
Where was all this talk when the engineers, ship workers, mill workers and coal miners were taking pay freezes, pay cuts and job losses at the
minimum redundancy payments?
errr are you comparing these militant people who we kept going with public money long after their industries were viable economic propositions with
the Police - who cannot legally go on strike?
"That thing you're thinking - it wont be that."
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Dangle_kt
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| posted on 8/3/11 at 07:49 PM |
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Sounds a tough and thankless job.
Chin up - the country needs good quality, hard working public servants in all areas.
One question you didn't answer - does your head go all the way to the top of that hat?
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Antnicuk
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| posted on 8/3/11 at 08:52 PM |
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a well written first post. I dont have as long in as you but working in inner london boroughs for 13 years, i have seen a thing or 2.
for those that are raising the issue of road policing and the fact that nothing happens when you are robbed but you get stuck on for speeding, you
will be pleased to know that the traffic unit has been one of the most cut units, especially in the Met, i dont know about the rest of the country
but the met have half as many traffic officers as they did when i joined, which is why you never see traffic cars on the road.
600 BHP per ton, Stylus Brought back from the dead! Turbo Rotary Powered!
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mistergrumpy
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| posted on 8/3/11 at 09:07 PM |
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GMP has cut it's traffic right back too.
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MikeR
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| posted on 8/3/11 at 09:13 PM |
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I think there are two issues here,
1) how we run our police service - targetting ticketting / heavy paperwork loads / less time to 'prevent' crime and be a part of the
community
2) how much we pay our public servants, in this case the police.
On the first point i think we're all basically agreed, we've got it wrong.
On the second, i'm less sure. I'm out of work and looking. At the moment i'm applying for jobs paying 30% less than i was on and
struggling. If i'm taking a pay cut, the X / Y / Z are taking pay cuts - why aren't the police / insert other industry here?
Reality is, you pay the minimum you can get away with. If we end up paying so little we run out of police the gov. will increase the pay and import
staff from other countries (look at what they've done with the nurses for an example). If industry pays so little it can't employ anyone
it will increase how much it pays (or the industry dies, as the police industry can't die salaries will increase). The other side of this is the
gov. are trying to control the country. If it suddenly increases police salaries by 20% there will be unprecedented demand from other public services
for an increase. Private industry will find staff joining the police, therefore they'll have to do something to temp them back and we've
got rampant inflation aka we're screwed.
Reality is there is a balance between all jobs ...... i'm not saying its correct, but there is.
Whats got my 'goat' at the moment is the rule XYZ that means they're going to compulsory retire police officers with 30 years
service. Some people are in their early 50's with years of good service to give and 30 years experience. Mad ........ but they've got to
make cuts and senior officers think this is the best way. I've no idea how the police service works, i've no idea of the issues they are
facing, these people are the experts, why should i question their decision?
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T66
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| posted on 8/3/11 at 09:28 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Antnicuk
a well written first post. I dont have as long in as you but working in inner london boroughs for 13 years, i have seen a thing or 2.
for those that are raising the issue of road policing and the fact that nothing happens when you are robbed but you get stuck on for speeding, you
will be pleased to know that the traffic unit has been one of the most cut units, especially in the Met, i dont know about the rest of the country
but the met have half as many traffic officers as they did when i joined, which is why you never see traffic cars on the road.
No different up here....with road policing (or lack of it)
As for working in London, hats off to you - I wouldnt do it.
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nitram38
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| posted on 8/3/11 at 09:42 PM |
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All you can hope is that there are no cops about when someone twats the CEO of Barclays and the other bankers who caused all this crap.
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franky
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| posted on 8/3/11 at 10:22 PM |
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I guess the police like the fire service are stuck as long as demand for jobs stays so high. The goverment will never do anything while there are so
many people applying for only a handful of jobs. Demand and supply I guess.
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designer
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| posted on 13/3/11 at 09:27 AM |
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"errr are you comparing these militant people who we kept going with public money long after their industries were viable economic propositions
with the Police - who cannot legally go on strike?"
I worked in Industry all my working life and the answer is no. I compare it to the honest hard working person, in a factory, in a mill, down the
mines, with wife and kids who lost their jobs, and homes, because of a multitude of reasond, and who never did have the guarantee of a well paid job,
with overtime, early retirement and salary related pension.
You know these people, the ones on basic state pension! The ones that made this country wealthy, before the bureaucrat’s and public purse took it all
away for themselves!
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Ninehigh
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| posted on 13/3/11 at 10:41 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by norfolkluego
quote:
Originally posted by scootz
Amen Ivan!
Each government from the early-90's forward has shafted the Police.
I think they've shafted everbody EXCEPT mindless thugs, the workshy, bogus assylum seekers, would be terrorists living on benefits, Health and
Safety Nazis, the 'Green' Brigade, serial complainers, opponents of free speech, twats who abuse our Armed Forces, mums with 28 kids by 28
fathers, you name it, if you don't deserve it you'll get it, if you do you won't
Spot on, last time I lost my job I was entitled no, nothing. Yes NOTHING having worked for 12 years because I'd paid the wrong type of national
insurance...
Further to this I think I've seen about 20 Officers on foot in my life.
Respect needs to be put back into policing somehow
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dpowyslybbe
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| posted on 13/3/11 at 12:22 PM |
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1st post in a very long time, was just on here as i'm about to fire up my car (tiger supercat) for the first time in a while, but I saw this and
it made me think. So here goes...
It's all about supply and demand. The police may not be very well paid (like many professions), but there are enough incentives (pay, perks,
reputation, image, etc) to mean that the police never have any trouble in recruiting. My understanding is that recruitment freezes have not been
uncommon in the past few years as the police are so well manned so why would any government want to pay police any more when it is clearly such a
popular profession to get into (and stay in)?
I appreciate that police are, in the main, not paid well, but I am sure there are many who sit behind desks, etc, that are overpaid for what they do,
whereas those who actually are 'on the front line' are underpaid. I think the pay structure is what really needs sorting.
As for facing the torrent of abuse/ danger that police face, I really feel for them. Why do we allow it to happen? The higher echelons of police/
government need to put procedures in place to support the police to ensure those that assault police/ cause aggro, etc, do not get away with it. I
lived in Germany for a few years and nobody messed with German police, because you knew your life was not worth it. Until people realise that they
can't get away with gobbing off/ assaulting police then it will continue. Just like, I suppose, footballers and managers gobbing off at referees
- If they were red carded more or fined it would soon stop.
Just must 10 pence worth anyway.
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mistergrumpy
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| posted on 13/3/11 at 12:49 PM |
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I can, maybe, attempt to answer that last bit. There are so few of us on the front line parading on for a shift, like 7,8 or 9 on a very good day to
cover a vast area, that if you lock up for little things like drunk and disorderly or public order when robberies and stabbings are common place, then
you're off the streets and you're pressured from above then to get back out quickly and even looked down on sometimes, depending on the
crime.
The amount of beaurocracy is phenominal for which someone in an office is more than ready at all times to complain at you (via e mails!) and try to
take your legs by copying bosses in. Then one of the biggest hurdles is the CPS. Just trying to get a charge any more is double hard and then if it is
authorised, the courts don't react so there's no lesson learned in the end anyway.
So in the end the underclass are happy to behave in their own little unique way as they do, knowing that the punishment is never going to fit the
crime.
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StrikerChris
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| posted on 13/3/11 at 01:05 PM |
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The country is in a mess and the pot is dry.you chose your career the same as i chose mine,your getting shafted now i got shafted years ago,as did
millions of others,i think you've had a bloody good run myself,no fear of redundancy,paycuts,had sick pay etc up til now. nothing you can do
about it,its shoite but its life!
i just expect even less chance of being let off with a bollocking in the future!
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mistergrumpy
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| posted on 13/3/11 at 01:47 PM |
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I have to say although you put it rather bluntly, I am of that thinking too now. It's my career and if I don't like it I can always bugger
off (albeit at the risk of bankrupting myself). I think maybe it's too many years of being shafted that I've learned to accept it.
But..
Unfortunately, it's you (and me because I'm still a member of the public and still allowed to complain to the cops too) who are going to
suffer as a result which is truly the biggest impact for me (and the big spur behind me choosing the job. If you can't beat them join them)
which wouldn't have happened when I was a supermarket worker or garage worker etc.
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T66
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| posted on 13/3/11 at 03:33 PM |
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The biggest fear for the police nowadays is a bloated bottleless fear of litigation, management are terrified of bad press.
And fair point its the career I chose, so I expect to get that thrown back in my face, HOWEVER I will manage through this "shafting"
process you desrcibe, as I am not as poorly paid as you may think.
My concerns are the manner and severity in which this government intend to chop everything up, there are far more folk with far less income than me,
and it is them who should concern all of us.
If the current pay cuts go through, I will.....
1) Lose £240 a month from my pay
2) Pay more into my pension , ontop of the 11% I have paid for 23 years
3) Look forward to now retiring at 60.
If there are any butchers, bakers, office staff, drivers, pilots, librarians can list when they were last filled in at work, stabbed or shot , spat
at, had their home burgled because they were a butcher,baker, etc etc list below please.
Instead of popping at the "gold plated" pension schemes as described by our wonderful press , and all the "perks" I apparently
recieve, try offering some support instead of telling me its my turn. This chestnut of reform has been avoided by the last 2 governments I have worked
for, this one has at least started reforming the service, and some of it I agree with, as reform is needed. Nothing should ever stand still, any line
of business needs to look forward at all times, and improve its delivery. But service delivery cannot be improved by reducing officer numbers - it
doesnt make sense.
Successive governments have shafted the police for years, it is now subject to massive scrutiny, not just by the press, but the human rights act,
health and safety and freedom of information acts. Every minute decision made on every piece of the job is subject to this scrutiny, never have cops
had such a shitty stick to hold on to....
I didnt post this thread for sympathy, my purpose was to highlight the current threat to frontline policing.
We have a navy with no ships for the Queens regatta next year, we have no RAF jets left, and an overstretched Army busting its gut, over extended with
too few of them to deal with whats on the table.
But as long as you have been shafted before mate , that makes it ok doesnt it !? Go read my original post
Not everything you read in the press is true ! british policing is under massive threat.
And Im not talking about perks,pay or overtime -
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whitestu
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| posted on 13/3/11 at 04:02 PM |
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I have great sympathy with the police and think the cuts are potentially dangerous, but one of the problems the police have is that previous
governments have used them against other groups of workers, like the miners in the 80's, when whole industries were closed down for political
reasons.
The police rightly do as they are told by our politicians, but it doesn't stop resentment building up when they are used in ways they
shouldn't be [like preventing freedom of movement].
This manifests itself as a lack of symapthy when the police are facing cuts.
Stu
[Edited on 13/3/11 by whitestu]
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designer
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| posted on 13/3/11 at 04:43 PM |
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The Police are not well paid!!
Compared to?
Try living on the minimum wage, which many do we are just as competant as the majority of Policemen.
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T66
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| posted on 13/3/11 at 05:11 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by designer
The Police are not well paid!!
Compared to?
Try living on the minimum wage, which many do we are just as competant as the majority of Policemen.
The Police in my view - The pay becomes ok in the current format once you have a few years service in, in the early years it is more the attraction to
police work than the money....The current pay structure needs reforming.
I am guessing living in the Vendee and driving a Robin Hood car you too are on the minimum wage ?
I had two children at 20 , and was unemployed for 18 months, stood in the queue for common market free cheese and butter from their mountain, this
allowed me to let the kids eat , while me and the wife ate cheese sandwich toasties. The good old Margeret Thatcher years of 4,000,000 on the
dole....
Bought a house in the early 1990s - at the end of the boom, only to have to have it re-possessed when the interest rates went from 7% to 15% in 2
years.
No advice required from anyone about living on the minimum wage my friend, been there seen it and have done it.....
And I would not wish it on anyone, I refer you to my original post.
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