tegwin
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| posted on 27/1/13 at 12:05 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by rusty nuts
Not so much middle lane hoggers but drivers that use the outside lane when they have passed exit signs for the junction they want and force their way
across 2 lanes of traffic to get off the motorway, a perfect example is at the junction of the A14 and the M11. I have even seen cars stop in the
middle lane so they car pull off to the N/S.
Appreciate this is annoying but sometimes when in unfamiliar areas you simply don't know the junction is coming up because all of the signs on
the left hand side of the road are blocked by bloody great lorries... Not that you can exactly use that as an excuse to just stop... there is always
another junction just down the road!
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Would the last person who leaves the country please switch off the lights and close the door!
www.verticalhorizonsmedia.tv
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andrew
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| posted on 27/1/13 at 12:10 PM |
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huh
Well i hope i dont come across some of the people who have replied on this as im driving , as for heavy goods vehicle drivers how many times have you
come accross two hgv,s sat side by side taking miles to pass , not breaking the law but just being arses,,,
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rodgling
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| posted on 27/1/13 at 12:26 PM |
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Have you tried over taking, then returning to the inside lane, dropping back again and doing laps? See how many you can do before they pull over.
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coozer
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| posted on 27/1/13 at 01:03 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by andrew
Well i hope i dont come across some of the people who have replied on this as im driving , as for heavy goods vehicle drivers how many times have you
come accross two hgv,s sat side by side taking miles to pass , not breaking the law but just being arses,,,
And, whats wrong with that exactly? Trucks are limited by EU law to max of 56mph. Companys set there own limits anywhere under that. Then theres
differences due to calibration, tyre wear etc.
So, I'm coming along, creep up on the truck in front, indicate to pull out and pass. Yes if theres only a slight difference it takes longer..
but what?
As you say, its legal, and thats what the government want.
If you dont like trucks limited to less than 56mph where the road limit is actually 60mph. VOTE UKIP, get us out of this mess!
1972 V8 Jago
1980 Z750
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rusty nuts
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| posted on 27/1/13 at 04:45 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by tegwin
quote:
Originally posted by rusty nuts
Not so much middle lane hoggers but drivers that use the outside lane when they have passed exit signs for the junction they want and force their way
across 2 lanes of traffic to get off the motorway, a perfect example is at the junction of the A14 and the M11. I have even seen cars stop in the
middle lane so they car pull off to the N/S.
Appreciate this is annoying but sometimes when in unfamiliar areas you simply don't know the junction is coming up because all of the signs on
the left hand side of the road are blocked by bloody great lorries... Not that you can exactly use that as an excuse to just stop... there is always
another junction just down the road!
When the road signs 2 miles back announce the approaching junction???? If they can't see the signs then they shouldn't be driving!!
Having been the first on the scene to 3 fatal accidents at that junction I don't want to see any more
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MikeRJ
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| posted on 27/1/13 at 05:46 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by omega 24 v6
I have to say I'm amazed at some of the answers and quotes on here. I hope many of them are in jest. In other countries it may be legal to
change lanes and overtake on the left, hell it might even be legal in this country ( but I doubt it). The fact is than many people DO NOT check to the
left lane before pulling over ( yes I agree they should) they expect nothing to be there as they are in a lane ( whether its lane 2 or 3) which are
for overtaking only ( so why would any one be passing you on the left). I remeber a series of adverts on road safety which clearly laid out the rules
on a motorway during the late 60's and 70's. Also the highway code makes it pretty clear along with the fact that they list various laws
to cover certain sections of the code.
I'm amazed you think that the Highway code is all driven by laws. It's not, it's a mixture of advice and law, and it's simple
to differentiate them. The other point you seem to be missing is that we are talking about cretins that don't pull over, irrespective of
whether they look or not. They just sit in the wrong lane in a vegetative state, oblivious of anything happening outside of their own car.
quote:
Originally posted by omega 24 v6
Do not overtake on the left or move to a lane on your left to overtake. In congested conditions, where adjacent lanes of traffic are moving at
similar speeds, traffic in left-hand lanes may sometimes be moving faster than traffic to the right. In these conditions you may keep up with the
traffic in your lane even if this means passing traffic in the lane to your right. Do not weave in and out of lanes to overtake.
"Do not" means this is advice, not law.
quote:
Originally posted by omega 24 v6
You should always drive in the left-hand lane when the road ahead is clear. If you are overtaking a number of slower-moving vehicles, you should
return to the left-hand lane as soon as you are safely past. Slow-moving or speed-restricted vehicles should always remain in the left-hand lane of
the carriageway unless overtaking. You MUST NOT drive on the hard shoulder except in an emergency or if directed to do so by the police, HA
traffic officers in uniform or by signs.
"Must not" means this is backed by law. Hopefully most people know it's illegal to use the hard shoulder unless directed
otherwise.
quote:
Originally posted by omega 24 v6
The right-hand lane of a motorway with three or more lanes MUST NOT be used (except in prescribed circumstances) if you are driving
any vehicle drawing a trailer
a goods vehicle with a maximum laden weight exceeding 3.5 tonnes but not exceeding 7.5 tonnes, which is required to be fitted with a speed limiter
a goods vehicle with a maximum laden weight exceeding 7.5 tonnes
a passenger vehicle with a maximum laden weight exceeding 7.5 tonnes constructed or adapted to carry more than eight seated passengers in addition to
the driver
a passenger vehicle with a maximum laden weight not exceeding 7.5 tonnes which is constructed or adapted to carry more than eight seated passengers in
addition to the driver, which is required to be fitted with a speed limiter.
Laws MT(E&W)R reg 12, MT(E&W)AR (2004), MT(S)R reg 11 & MT(S)AR (2004)
Legislation pertaining to towing is not really relevant to the subject under discussion.
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r1_pete
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| posted on 27/1/13 at 06:27 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by andrew
Well i hope i dont come across some of the people who have replied on this as im driving , as for heavy goods vehicle drivers how many times have you
come accross two hgv,s sat side by side taking miles to pass , not breaking the law but just being arses,,,
Do you honestly think HGV drivers are just being arses!! don't you think they have enough to do to meet their targets, tacho limits, coax the
best MPG / MPH out of their vehicles, and basically keep the country moving! don't forget the most of what you buy has been hauled on one of
these....
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Macbeast
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| posted on 27/1/13 at 06:43 PM |
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There are times when I will use lane 2 when lane 1 is empty but is unpleasant to drive because of poor road surface due to much use by heavy
vehicles.
At other times, I will occasionally overtake a slow-moving middle lane hogger on the inside and it's remarkable how often they speed up to
overtake me in return, usually giving me a friendly wave or flash of lights 
[Edited on 27/1/13 by Macbeast]
I'm addicted to brake fluid, but I can stop anytime.
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omega 24 v6
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| posted on 27/1/13 at 06:58 PM |
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quote:
I'm amazed you think that the Highway code is all driven by laws. It's not, it's a mixture of advice and law, and it's simple
to differentiate them. The other point you seem to be missing is that we are talking about cretins that don't pull over, irrespective of whether
they look or not. They just sit in the wrong lane in a vegetative state, oblivious of anything happening outside of their own car.
I never said the code was driven by laws at any point ( although some of them as you list are)
The " Advice" is there for a very good reason. Its what the majority of sensible people do.
quote:
Legislation pertaining to towing is not really relevant to the subject under discussion.
Well I'm sorry but artics etc have been brought up in the discussion and unless I'm blind or misled they are "towing" a
trailer.
I stand by the fact that IMHO ( and probably those who "take the advice" of the code) That undertaking is one of the most dangerous
maneuvers. I also get frustrated by middle or outside lane hoggers. It shows a lack of concentration and or understanding of the advice given ( happy)
and an arrogance of " I'll do what I please". However at no point would I ever UNDERTAKE these people. If they are not concentrating
on where they are on the road they sure as hell won't be looking before they pull to the left.
Lane hoggers and undertakers are IMHO just as bad as each other.
If it looks wrong it probably is wrong.
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mcerd1
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| posted on 28/1/13 at 09:35 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by coozer
So, the point is... last night the motorways where stuffed with snow and all the usual suspects decide the inside lane at 25mph is good..
You mean just slow enough to make sure they get stuck as soon as they come to a bit of a hill 
I like it when it snows up here, I get the outside lane all to myself
quote:
Originally posted by omega 24 v6I stand by the fact that IMHO ( and probably those who "take the advice" of the code) That
undertaking is one of the most dangerous maneuvers. I also get frustrated by middle or outside lane hoggers. It shows a lack of concentration and or
understanding of the advice given ( happy) and an arrogance of " I'll do what I please". However at no point would I ever UNDERTAKE
these people. If they are not concentrating on where they are on the road they sure as hell won't be looking before they pull to the left.
Lane hoggers and undertakers are IMHO just as bad as each other.
^^ I'll second all of that - I've seen far too many near misses 
the only thing worse IMHO is the people that seem incapable of merging as they come onto the motorway/dual-carriageway
one recenly nearly caused a 4 car + 1 bin lorry pile up - but she got away with it by about 6" and the fact that the bin lorry driver was
really on the ball (I've never seen a bin lorry move quite like that before  )
I don't even think she was aware of what had just happened all around her
[Edited on 28/1/2013 by mcerd1]
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Dusty
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| posted on 28/1/13 at 11:17 AM |
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quote:
the only thing worse IMHO is the people that seem incapable of merging as they come onto the motorway/dual-carriageway one recenly nearly
caused a 4 car + 1 bin lorry pile up - but she got away with it by about 6" and the fact that the bin lorry driver was really on the ball
(I've never seen a bin lorry move quite like that before ) I don't even think she was aware of what had just happened all around her
When merging from the left it is best to be positive and clear in your intentions for the benefit of other road users. Apply death grip to
wheel, rigidly stare straight ahead and under no circumstances be distracted by looking in your mirrors. Indicate right. This is important as it gives
you right of way and keeps other motorists well informed of your actions. Choose a suitable speed, anything up to 45 mph will suit for joining a
motorway. Those motorists already on the motorway will be able to see you clearly and adjust their progress to allow you to safely join the motorway.
Once on the motorway you may continue in the left hand lane but it is polite raise your left hand to thank the lorry driver behind for letting you in.
After a few miles at 45mph you will have become used to the motorways higher speeds and it is reasonable to gradually increase your speed to 50 mph.
It would be wise to move into the middle lane when you reach 50mph. Check that your right indicator is still flashing and steer a little to the right.
Do not be distracted by your mirrors whilst carrying out this manoeuvre but once established in the middle lane it is polite to acknowledge the
flashes, toots and waves from other drivers by briefly raising the left hand again. You can now proceed happy in the knowledge that motorways are some
of the safest roads in the country. Happy motoring.
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MikeRJ
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| posted on 28/1/13 at 12:25 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by omega 24 v6
I stand by the fact that IMHO ( and probably those who "take the advice" of the code) That undertaking is one of the most dangerous
maneuvers.
More dangerous than e.g. Brake testing someone, overtaking across a pedestrian crossing, reversing into a main road etc..etc? Poor risk mitigation is
what makes a maneuver dangerous, and you can apply this to almost anything e.g. overtaking on the correct side but approaching a blind bend or the
blind crest of a hill.
Overtaking on the left does not have to be dangerous, provided you assess the risks before hand and ensure you have some way of mitigating those
risks. I don't regularly overtake on the left, and I give lane hogging morons plenty of opportunity to pull in but if they continue to ignore
the tailback they are causing I will overtake on the left as soon as it safe to do so.
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Paul Turner
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| posted on 28/1/13 at 01:32 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by MikeRJ
Overtaking on the left does not have to be dangerous, provided you assess the risks before hand and ensure you have some way of mitigating those
risks. I don't regularly overtake on the left, and I give lane hogging morons plenty of opportunity to pull in but if they continue to ignore
the tailback they are causing I will overtake on the left as soon as it safe to do so.
How do you know that the car you are undertaking is not going to pull in when you are alongside.
I hate lane hoggers as much as anyone on here but I will never undertake. How much time does it add to your journey to overtake on the right even if
you have to wait a few seconds.
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CraigJ
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| posted on 28/1/13 at 03:13 PM |
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Lane hoggers a pain in the ass. I'm a Service engineer and cover around 35-40K a year.
The main thing that gets on my tits are twats that think putting there indicator on gives them the right of way, Lorry drivers being the worst twats
for this.
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snakebelly
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| posted on 28/1/13 at 03:13 PM |
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I suppose you could also ask how you know they won't pull out to the right if you overtake them? Whilst I agree that undertaking is not ideal I
think that as already posted it can be done safely and legally as long as all the circumstances stack up.
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omega 24 v6
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| posted on 28/1/13 at 05:23 PM |
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quote:
More dangerous than e.g. Brake testing someone, overtaking across a pedestrian crossing, reversing into a main road etc..etc? Poor risk mitigation is
what makes a maneuver dangerous, and you can apply this to almost anything e.g. overtaking on the correct side but approaching a blind bend or the
blind crest of a hill.
OK one by one.
Why the f*ck would you brake test someone?? Unless your an arse.
Why would you overtake on or approaching a crossing?? stupid or unobservant?
Reversing into a main road ( again ADVISED NOT TO in the highway code)
Sorry mate but I hope you are not a future victim of someone elses failure to look or indicate before they pull to the left.
For my own part I think you and I will only agree that something needs to be done about lane hoggers?
If it looks wrong it probably is wrong.
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Ninehigh
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| posted on 28/1/13 at 08:36 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by coozer
Trucks are limited by EU law to max of 56mph.
Really? I've sat behind Irish, Polish and other european wagons and sometimes I've been doing over 60. Also if that's the case then
why is the speed limit for hgvs 60?
Maybe we should just make it easier and campaign for the "keep to the left lane unless overtaking" to be made law, easing some of the tax
burden on the overworked Gatso
Nothing wrong with wagons overtaking each other slowly. Just be glad you're not sat behind them for miles on the 2 lane autobahn, where iirc
they have a term for it (something to do with elephants)
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Slimy38
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| posted on 28/1/13 at 08:44 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Dusty
quote:
the only thing worse IMHO is the people that seem incapable of merging as they come onto the motorway/dual-carriageway one recenly nearly
caused a 4 car + 1 bin lorry pile up - but she got away with it by about 6" and the fact that the bin lorry driver was really on the ball
(I've never seen a bin lorry move quite like that before ) I don't even think she was aware of what had just happened all around her
When merging from the left it is best to be positive and clear in your intentions for the benefit of other road users. Apply death grip to
wheel, rigidly stare straight ahead and under no circumstances be distracted by looking in your mirrors. Indicate right. This is important as it gives
you right of way and keeps other motorists well informed of your actions. Choose a suitable speed, anything up to 45 mph will suit for joining a
motorway. Those motorists already on the motorway will be able to see you clearly and adjust their progress to allow you to safely join the motorway.
Once on the motorway you may continue in the left hand lane but it is polite raise your left hand to thank the lorry driver behind for letting you in.
After a few miles at 45mph you will have become used to the motorways higher speeds and it is reasonable to gradually increase your speed to 50 mph.
It would be wise to move into the middle lane when you reach 50mph. Check that your right indicator is still flashing and steer a little to the right.
Do not be distracted by your mirrors whilst carrying out this manoeuvre but once established in the middle lane it is polite to acknowledge the
flashes, toots and waves from other drivers by briefly raising the left hand again. You can now proceed happy in the knowledge that motorways are some
of the safest roads in the country. Happy motoring.
Aha, you've been on the road at the same time as my uncle then!
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ianclark1275
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| posted on 28/1/13 at 08:51 PM |
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you are all talking about driving culture
it is what it is....
i agree the middle lane drivers are a unnecessary risk
ive done york - retford every day for 4 years - as its mostly 2 lanes it was ok and never really had a problem (2003-7)
in a focus. (dual carriageway)
now i do york sheffield everyday (Motorway) in a restricted 4x4 70mph, which is much worse
you overtake lorrys no problem using middle lane and outside lane.
only a few cars actually do <70mph so makes overtaking very slow process (as per the lorrys overtaking earlier).
so, moving to the middle lane to overtake something you can see ahead may seem like im in the middle lane unnecessarily, but if everyone had a speed
limiter fitted your outlook on using the road would be different.
it has actually benefited me as my judgement of closing speeds is absolutely spot on
IC
measure twice, cut once, scrap it, start again.
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mcerd1
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| posted on 29/1/13 at 09:04 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by ianclark1275
it has actually benefited me as my judgement of closing speeds is absolutely spot on
I didn't need a speed limiter to learn that - a 45bhp car works just as well 
my little 106 could only just about hold 70 on the up hills, but if I was forced to slow down at all for any reason then then it wouldn't be
able to get above 60 untill the road flatened out... it really teaches you to plan your moves throught the traffic
the most relaxing drive I've ever had on the motorways was in my dad's old transit (the old 90's mid powered NA one) when I went to
collect my dax.
the thing had enough power but an HD rear axle with a really, really low ratio - used a gps to judge the speeds as the speedo was ~8% out (still in
the IVA range, but more error than most new cars I've driven...)
had it at 70mph for about 30seconds but backed off as I though I might blow the engine (no rev limiter )
65mph was doable if you didn't mind having the fillings in your teeth shaken loose
55-56mph was a bit more comfortable, so I just gave up for the most part, stuck to the inside lane with the lorries and stopped tring to overtake
anything apart from the very slow moving cars (some dangerously slow)
the only differance the road works made to me was I stopped getting overtaken for a wee while 
Edinburgh to Harlow and back with almost no stress at all (but ~8.5 hour each way)
[Edited on 29/1/2013 by mcerd1]
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