mookaloid
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| posted on 20/9/04 at 10:03 AM |
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Attention engine Gurus!
Having just had a first go at hillclimbing, I think I might need significantly more power for next year....
I have a pinto with 205 block, gas flowed head and 45's giving about 145 Bhp.
I would like 200+ Bhp can I bolt on a cosworth head and continue to use my weber 45s? what sort of power could I get with this set up?
is this the best way to go or should I change to Vauxhall (or something else?) power?
Cheers
Mark
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DaveFJ
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| posted on 20/9/04 at 10:14 AM |
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Des Hammils book goes into some depth about how to fit a cossie head to a standard 205 block... seems quite 'do-able'
(am looking into it myself)
Here
Dave
"In Support of Help the Heroes" - Always
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Mikey G
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| posted on 20/9/04 at 10:46 AM |
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You will probably find it quite expensive to get a Cossie head to run properly when Naturally aspirated, you may need to change pistons to start with
to get the compression right. Manifolds shouldnt be a problem although a bespoke exhaust manifold is probably needed for a Locost. Ignition shouldnt
be a problem as both the pinto and early cossie are distributor based but you may need a dizzy with a special advance curve made up. And heads are not
that cheap either! Cams are gonna be another £400-£600 if you replace both of them and i should think its a neccesity as the original cams are setup
for a turbo motor.
I think it would be a worthwhile conversion considering if you change the motor altogether you would also have to change your engine bay due to engine
configuration (Cossie inlet to the right, Zetec/Vauxhall to the left)
Mike
[Edited on 20/9/04 by Mikey G]
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garage19
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| posted on 20/9/04 at 10:55 AM |
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Problem with cossie heads in NA applications is that you have to do alot of expensive head work to get them to flow as well as some thing like a zetec
head.
The cossie head is designed to have air pushed through it at high rpm and there doesnt need large ports like an NA head.
Some would say I'm biased but i would swap out the pinto and chuck in a pre 95 2ltr zetec. You can still use your 45s and gearbox and should see
175bhp+ with a good exhaust manifold.
DC
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chick
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| posted on 20/9/04 at 12:46 PM |
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I would really recommend a read of:
How to Modify Ford Single Overhead Camshaft Engines
by David Vizard
Amazon flog it, and its a really good read.
Tim
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NS Dev
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| posted on 20/9/04 at 07:48 PM |
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If you already have a really strong pinto bottom end with very low mileage then it is probably worth doing. You can get a head for reasonable money,
and if you can find somebody to port it and get some s/h cams and new followers it needn't cost the earth to do.
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macspeedy
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| posted on 20/9/04 at 08:10 PM |
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fairly comprehensive site about what you have mentioned, 145 is that bhp figure at the wheels? just curious
http://members.aol.com/DVAndrews/
[Edited on 20/9/04 by macspeedy]
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mookaloid
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| posted on 20/9/04 at 08:27 PM |
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Thanks guys - I will get Des Hammils book - already have the Vizard.
The 145 is estimated at the crank I got about 110 at the wheels on a rolling road.
I appreciate I can get more out of the pinto yet but my concern is should I spend cash going that way when maybe I could spend it better in another
direction.
I saw this earlier http://www.pumaracing.co.uk/pug16v.htm - peugeot engine!!! thoughts anyone? what gearbox could I use if I got one of these?
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NS Dev
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| posted on 20/9/04 at 08:38 PM |
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Pug engine, very good, very light, similar performance to the Vauxhall XE 16v as a "standard internally but with good induction and
exhaust" sort of level.
Not sure on the 'box. Flowtech racing used to do a bellhousing to mate the pug engine to the Ford Type 9 'box for the old 8v Pug engine
(basically the same as the 16v block-wise) for use in hot-rod racing but Flowtech have disappeared I think. Somebody mentioned the use of a
freight-rover 'box as used with the 1.9 pug diesel but I have never heard of this one in practice.
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mookaloid
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| posted on 20/9/04 at 08:54 PM |
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not sure about a freight rover box - can that possibly be as good as my type9? I have the XR4i close ratio box just now and would like to keep it if
at all possible
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Rob Lane
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| posted on 21/9/04 at 07:54 AM |
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I think it's the Sherpa Freight Rover van that has the bellhousing to fit the Type 9 to Pug. Not sure though.
I don't think the Pinto was a competitive engine in the class, it's a heavy engine and lacks good tuning bits.
There was a guy with a Pug Mi16 fitted in a Dutton that used to be in top 3 all the time. I marvelled at his times until finally one day he had front
off for a while to do some work.
It was no longer a Dutton, in fact it only looked like one.
It had a small light tube spaceframe, the bodywork was a lighter weight fibreglass copy. The engine was fully tuned race spec with twin 45 webers on a
custom manifold.
Turns out he worked for a Pug main dealers.
You've caught the power bug then ?
That happens as soon as you get on track and finish your very first run, you want to win and think you need more power.
Not necessarily so, in the class I ran in up to 1700cc, we were all regularily beaten by a guy with an early pre-lit westie fitted with a very nicely
tuned 1300cc xflow. It only made 110bhp but the car was nimble and light.
He was also a very experienced driver.
Much as it often pains to admit, it's driving first, then power.
Like everyone else on track I wished I was faster.
With feedback and checking times I discovered I was fastest for the first 150m from the start. No-one beat my standing start and first 60m dash but
after that it was the driving style that let me down. I had practiced the starts and found the best style of takeoff.
I did the Harewood Driving school course and that helped a lot but finally costs persuaded me to stop for a while.
I intend to try again maybe next year but with costs approaching £150 for a weekend and competing every other weekend it mounts up.
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stressy
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| posted on 21/9/04 at 08:36 AM |
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Tyres and brakes
Hi mate,
An aquaintance of mine started hillclimbing a couple of years ago (when i have enough cash, im gonna have a crack myself, but from where i live its
rather expensive)
He started running with a pinto and eventually ended up with a QED prepared vauxall circa 225bhp. Problem was that the times with the pinto were
slowest and the unmodified vaux the fastest, as being a novice meant he was loosing out coming from the apexes where he just could not get the power
down with the modded engine. He has now converted to running avons and the times are rising again.
The other thing was braking where he was looking to slow from near 100mph to 25mph on undulating uphill curved road, the tyres have made a huge
difference, along with lighter weight brakes and wheels.
I guess what im saying is hillclimbing seems to revolve around composed handling, power and grip, ignoring the handling, you cant use the power
without the grip.
It would be worth spending a chunk of your budget on some sticky stuff (depending on your class permissions) as this will aid acceleration, cornering
and braking, and SAFETY.
WHO DARES SPINS
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mookaloid
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| posted on 21/9/04 at 09:41 AM |
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Hi Rob, Hi Stressy,
Thanks for taking the time to do those postings, I do understand that to be successful the whole package has to right.
I have already identified the weakest link in the package...... me to this end I will be attending a course in the new year and if finances permit,
I would like to campaign the whole season, developing my skills and the car as I go.
My short list of priorities for the new year has to be
1. Training
2. the stickiest rubber that the class allows
3. quick rack
4. windscreen and wipers to allow me to stay in the kit car class
5. get a full wheel alignment
after that I will leave the car alone for a while as I believe the next important thing is for me to get some consistency i.e. I need to be able to
reproduce times so that any changes to the car can then be correctly evaluated.
That's the theory anyway, of course there's always the power thing nagging away.... I wonder if I can put a turbo on a Pinto
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Rob Lane
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| posted on 21/9/04 at 11:04 AM |
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Must admit that tyres was one of the biggest single improvements next to the LSD. That alone knocked 1.5 secs of my normal runs. No more cocking a
spinning wheel up in air.
You can turbo a Pinto or a Cossie but then there's the 1.9 penalty to apply for forced induction.
There was a Dax with a Cos turbo in our events, he gave up in end and sold it.
It was a pig to control, it had to be watched as when revs rose in mid bend it would suddenly piruette, as boost came in with a bump. Sometimes it
would be off boost just when he needed it.
He got fed up with it.
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mookaloid
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| posted on 21/9/04 at 11:20 AM |
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Actually I was only kidding about the turbo bit.........
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Rob Lane
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| posted on 21/9/04 at 11:23 AM |
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Yeah I guessed.
Quick rack is great for catching a 'moment' but can make car a bit twitchy at speed.
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mookaloid
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| posted on 21/9/04 at 11:35 AM |
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Well I certainly had quite a few 'moments' and I believe the standard rack made it harder to bring back in line.
I have an LSD already so I guess that helped - otherwise I suspect I wouldn't have got away with it......
Most people I have spoken to think a quick rack is a good idea on balance even given the twitchiness at speed, I can only give it a go and see -
it's not the most expensive risk to take after all.
Anyone got thoughts on the best (stickiest) tyres?
Mark
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Stu16v
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| posted on 21/9/04 at 11:46 AM |
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Are you governed by any regulations on tyres?
If they 'only' have to be road legal, Yoko A048's, or Avon ACB10's...
Dont just build it.....make it!
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Rob Lane
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| posted on 21/9/04 at 01:45 PM |
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You'll find the quickrack a joy to use. It makes it a true 'racer' type whereby you normally don't let go of wheel except for
slow manouvering. i.e. slightly crossed hands for tight bend only, else just a slight movement of wrist to change direction.
List 1A applies which limits choice somewhat as they never catch up with latest road tyre developements.
I settled on Yoko AVS Sport's but that was my best choice given my wheel size.
They are the wet weather tyre for use in Toyota Formula Atlantic series. The tread although cut is actually one piece all round when looked at
closely.
[Edited on 21/9/04 by Rob Lane]
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andyps
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| posted on 21/9/04 at 08:21 PM |
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Did you compete at Harewood at teh weekend? I didn't manage to get there unfortunately so missed all the action, gather it was a good
weekend.
A turbo wouldn't be a good idea as you would end up in a class where being competitive would be very difficult.
At least one of the Westfields at Harewood has a tuned Puma engine which I gather gives pretty good power, but not sure quite how much. I will try to
find out for you.
Andy
An expert is someone who knows more and more about less and less
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mookaloid
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| posted on 21/9/04 at 09:14 PM |
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Thanks for the tyre info guys - I need to check the regs to see what I will be allowed.
Hi Andy, yes I was there - ah I see you've seen my posting about it. It was just great
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