Opirun
|
| posted on 4/4/13 at 11:07 AM |
|
|
Track day kit vs Road day kit
Hi all,
I am just trying to decide on my options for a kit car, been think a lot over the past week, especially after all the valuable and helpful comments
everyone has posted on this forum. It has been very useful. One of the things I am considering is the option for having a kit only for off road use.
This way I do not have to worry about IVA, etc.
One of the key things for me is that I build the kit myself, and that it has a bike engine. That has always been the passion for me. I have consider
buying prebuilt ones, but I for me that's 80% of the achievement factor out of the window. One thing I do notice is that bike engined kits
seldom get used much on the roads.
I am not interested in competitive racing, just having a blast every now and again. I know that track days can be in excessive of £100 a day, not
including the car costs, tyres, repairs, etc. But wondering if there are options for a blast in airfields, etc which would be a cheaper
alternative.
I look forward to learning from the experiences of others and your responses.
Thanks.
[Edited on 4/4/13 by Opirun]
|
|
|
|
|
loggyboy
|
| posted on 4/4/13 at 11:11 AM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Opirun
I am not interested in competitive racing, just having a blast every now and again. I know that track days can be in excessive of £100 a day, not
including the car costs, tyres, repairs, etc. But wondering if there are options for a blast in airfields, etc which would be a cheaper
alternative.
Even airfield days will start at about £100. Trackdays on proper tracks range from £100 (rarely and at the start/end of the year when they are less
popular) to about £400 for somewhere like Silverstone at peak times.
Mistral Motorsport
|
|
|
whitestu
|
| posted on 4/4/13 at 11:19 AM |
|
|
You'll want at least another £100 for fuel if you do a full track day.
Stu
|
|
|
Hellfire
|
| posted on 4/4/13 at 11:22 AM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Opirun
One thing I do notice is that bike engined kits seldom get used much on the roads. [Edited on 4/4/13 by Opirun]
Sorry but I have to disagree with this comment. I'd suggest that BECs get used on the roads at least as much as CECs. IME, our MK Indy actually
gets used on the road more than an equivalent CEC would. The driving experience and thrill of a BEC is just so different from a CEC that
you're actually waiting for half decent days, just so you can take it out............ 
Phil
|
|
|
Opirun
|
| posted on 4/4/13 at 11:27 AM |
|
|
That's really good to hear! I think I have been heard to many CEC owners advising against BEC on the road because of the drive-ability on the
road.
Seems that so far I am really underestimating the cost of the track day kit vs road day kit.
|
|
|
nick205
|
| posted on 4/4/13 at 11:46 AM |
|
|
I considered the option of a track only car when I built my MK a few years ago. On balance, the prospect of having it sat in the garage on a sunny
day and not being able to use it made the then SVA and registration cost worth every penny.
Realistically, how many track days a year will you have the time and cash for? Do you have a trailer etc to get the car to and fro? Do you want that
much money tied up in something with very limited use?
Finally, the resale value of a road legal car is always higher (perhaps not by the cost of IVA, but not far off it).
My preference would always be for road legal and make the most of every opportunity you get to drive it...everywhere. We used to eat a lot more take
aways and watch more Block Buster DVDs when I had mine...any excuse to go for a blast
|
|
|
RickRick
|
| posted on 4/4/13 at 11:46 AM |
|
|
My mnr's got an R1 engine in it, and i mainly drive it on the road, i guess there a some downsides to bec's on the road, it's
quite easy to stall setting off, and there's not much torque, till say 5 mph, after that they just leave cec's way behind!
|
|
|
twybrow
|
| posted on 4/4/13 at 11:48 AM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Opirun
That's really good to hear! I think I have been heard to many CEC owners advising against BEC on the road because of the drive-ability on the
road.
Seems that so far I am really underestimating the cost of the track day kit vs road day kit.
I use my BEC on the road more than I do on the track... It is bollox that they are undriaveable on the road. Yes, the engine and gearbox is more
suited to full attack mode rather than bumbling along, but it is absolute tripe that they cannot be suitable to use on the road. My car does not over
heat in traffic, the clutch is light and with the right adjustment, it drives just like a regular tintop would.
For me, as for Hellfire, the BEC brings a unique experience, that I have yet to see replicated in a CEC (and yes, I have been in some very powerful,
very fast CECs!).
Have you been out in a BEC and a CEC yet? If not, I would start with that to help you decide. If you tell us where you are (add your location to your
profile), I am sure there are plenty of fellow Locostbuilders who will happily take you out for a blast - any excuse to get out is as good one!
|
|
|
ReMan
|
| posted on 4/4/13 at 12:05 PM |
|
|
I'm with all the pro BEC comments.
Mines a road car and a very driveable one at that, which occasianally gets used on the track
A quick half hour blast is enough to top up my tank
The IVA is not something to worry about.
If you plan to pass it you will
If you bodge a car together quickly with no thought it will fail
www.plusnine.co.uk
|
|
|
mark chandler
|
| posted on 4/4/13 at 12:21 PM |
|
|
Mine has been SORN for a few years now as I would rather spend the money on extra track days, I had to build a trailer and stick a hook on my car so
in reality the money gap is pretty small and my car is not insured anymore.
When on the road it was fine for driving about, the 'red mist' does have a habit of descending which also added to track only for self
preservation.
If track focused then second hand slicks @ £25 a corner are a big saving, you would also use different rated springs to optimise.
Regards Mark
|
|
|
Jenko
|
| posted on 4/4/13 at 12:21 PM |
|
|
I agree with all the comments re BEC on the road...they are fine.....And to flip that around, CEC are also great on track. For quick lap times, first
is driver skill, followed by the cars set up (suspension, tyres, weight), engine power is close to the bottom of the list, but with the BEC you get a
nice light weight car.
Airfield days are great because they are a) normally cheaper b) have a large open run of areas c) typically smaller, tighter and slower than the
dedicated tracks which can suit our lightweight machines.
Again, it's nice to go for a blast every now and then, and I alway drive my car to track days.
MY BLOG - http://westfieldv8.blogspot.co.uk/
|
|
|
Opirun
|
| posted on 4/4/13 at 12:25 PM |
|
|
Once again, thanks everyone for your kind replies and input.
I should have made it clearer in my original post, for me there is no question of bec vs cec, I definitely have my mind set on a BEC. I made this
decision after being taken for a ride in a Grinnell Scorpion, also by the input from others on this forum.
I do have a 4x4 but would need a trailer and towbar.
What I am trying to knock off is the decision between track day kit vs road day kit. I am now towards the road day kit and dealing with the IVA, etc.
Therefore, narrowing down my focus. This has been really useful. I agree having the kit sitting in the garage without being able to use it on the road
would be annoying along with my underestimation of the running costs for sole track day kits.
|
|
|
Hellfire
|
| posted on 4/4/13 at 06:12 PM |
|
|
What's your budget and how soon do you want to build one?
Phil
|
|
|
adithorp
|
| posted on 4/4/13 at 07:24 PM |
|
|
Who says BEC's don't get used on the road? Done three 3000mile tours to the Alps/Med and loads of 500 mile days. Don't believe all
the guff that CEC owners will feed you; They probably never do more than a couple of hours in there's at a go.
Track days are great (booking one tonight) but so are days out, weekends at shows and tours.
"A witty saying proves nothing" Voltaire
http://jpsc.org.uk/forum/
|
|
|
Opirun
|
| posted on 4/4/13 at 08:41 PM |
|
|
Budget, at the time of signing up to this forum I was hoping around £5k for BEC kit on the road. The more I learn from research and all the peeps in
this forum the more I see this that coming in at this budget is going to be tricky if not impossible 
Timescale, I would like to have this completed by October 2013. I think I can manage about 10 hours a week of kit build time.
P.S. I am with you all on the BEC 
|
|
|
daniel mason
|
| posted on 4/4/13 at 08:51 PM |
|
|
you would definately need to double your budget to build a bec.,and get it on the road. at least double infact
|
|
|
nick205
|
| posted on 4/4/13 at 08:52 PM |
|
|
Noting your budget, timescale and desire to self-build, I'd think a part built kit is your best bet.
|
|
|
mark chandler
|
| posted on 4/4/13 at 08:58 PM |
|
|
If you scratch build you will be within the money budget, need to at least double the time though.
I think mine took around 9 months and that was going at it hard, more than 10 hours a week, building the frame was quite quick, it is all the little
bits that take time.
|
|
|
sdh2903
|
| posted on 4/4/13 at 09:07 PM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by daniel mason
you would definately need to double your budget to build a bec.,and get it on the road. at least double infact
Not true,
I was on the road for 8k. I didnt scrimp on spec either, stack gauges(second hand but unused) , mnr reverse (second hand), new wheels and toyos. I was
crafty with my donor and made money on it, I also got a very good deal on an R1 of which lots of parts were sold and money put back in the pot.
I reckon doing it again i could shave another grand off that, my on the road price includes everything inc IVA, registration and a full tank of
fuel.
I wouldn't discount buying a built one. Buy it, strip it to a bare chassis and rebuild it to how YOU want it, with what engine you want. Still
get the sense of achievement but you will save some money and no IVA, which is not as bad as people make out, build the car to the correct standards
to a good quality and you will pass.
Good luck with whatever you decide
|
|
|
Opirun
|
| posted on 4/4/13 at 10:03 PM |
|
|
Thanks all. Glad to hear it is possible-ish, I don't mind putting in more time if need be, also some weeks I can double my man hours as I will
have a helping hand
Looking at prebuilt options, what how about something like this?
Lotus 7 / Caterham Replica Kit Car | eBay
So I would need to strip it sell the engine, etc an replace it with a BEC, then get it IVA'd.
Possible under 5k?
What do you think?
|
|
|
greenwood03
|
| posted on 5/4/13 at 07:50 AM |
|
|
the track versus road is an interesting one. Everyone would have different aims as far as their own track driving goes, meaning: some pals run slicks
and everything they can in order to be the fastest thing out there, others run modest pintos and take their pleasure from piloting what they have as
quickly as they are able.....subtle difference.
the thing for TD's for me is having pals around who i can have a good day with, because otherwise ( again for me) it can become a bit samey -
and that isn't always possible, add in the costs of some circuits ( not a fan of hacking around a flat concrete field with cones ) and it starts
to get a bit expensive for my me. £180/220 a day plus the tyres/fuel and gen wear....
so now do the more occasional TD with much more road driving, atleast with a road going car you can please yourself whener you choose. There's a
fair few BEC's in our club that get used regularly on the road so i wouldn't let that put you off.
Never built a car but as has been said buying one that's already been iva'd /sva'd would seem a sensible choice. That said be wary
with whatever you buy and do take stock of not just swapping engines etc but the cost of other bits n pieces that might creep up on you.....changing
seats, harnesses, brakes, shocks, tyres etc etc can have a significant/huge impact and what seemed like a bargain may surprise you.Like all things
depends how much you can do, what you can source cheaply etc etc.
http://southernkitcars.comIntermarque Club for owners in the South/South East
|
|
|
