Forcus
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| posted on 13/5/03 at 02:48 PM |
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Safety - Side Impact
I have the sinking feeling that the Lotus is NOT very safe in a side impact. In the U.S., land of the SUV and inattentive driver, I am very concerned
about this.
I am not so concerned about deformation of the actual structure, but transfer of the energy in a collision to the driver/passenger. I am afraid of
serious injury by the neck snapping sideways, even possibly hittin the grille of the enormous SUV which just ran the red light.
I plan on a full roll cage which will prevent intrusion of a vehicle into the Lotus. But I am still afraid of serious injury because there is NO crush
space for the side of the Lotus.
Any ideas? Or is there no way to do anything about this? Oh, racing style seats with side head protection would not work in this car. I intend on
driving it to work when its nice out. These seats seriously limit side visibility.
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ned
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| posted on 13/5/03 at 03:38 PM |
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I have seen on racing westies and cateringvans people put a side bar from the bottom of the rear rollbar out and down/over the rear arch and then down
to the bottom chassis member (i think!) by the back end of the footwell. i'll have a surf for a pic.
A.
beware, I've got yellow skin
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Forcus
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| posted on 13/5/03 at 03:40 PM |
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I think I know what you are talking about - our Sprint and Midget type cars have a similar setup. Wonder if this would totally ruin a Lotus'
looks?
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ned
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| posted on 13/5/03 at 03:43 PM |
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check out this website, not exactly what I remembered but a solution nonetheless
beware, I've got yellow skin
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uberf1end
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| posted on 13/5/03 at 08:01 PM |
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Changing the topic slightly.
Are you not worried about ride height of your car on the roads over there?
I thought ours were pretty poor but on a fairly recent trip, I noted that the millions of SUV's and all the soggy boat-like motors have made the
approach to road maintenance quite interesting.
No little pot holes like we have to put up with but everywhere I went there were big dips and bumps in the road that caused any unfortunate soul who
had done the unthinkable (and bought a Jap car) to bottom out and issue a stream of sparks from the underside of their car!
Another thing I noticed was that 'lane discipline' on the freeways was interesting. It seems weaving in and out of lanes is perfectly
acceptable practice, as is driving on the person in front's bumper!
Also, how does right of way work on X roads without lights? It seemed to me that whoever is the most aggressive gets
to go first, with no anger or complaints from the others waiting!
No complaints though, experience of our stressed out, cramped roads where you simply have to pay close attention gave you a definate advantage if you
were in a hurry!
It is so much more relaxed over there.
Too many straight roads though.
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Forcus
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| posted on 13/5/03 at 08:09 PM |
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As far as ride height, I was going to start at what I think is a reasonable height, and if I should need to adjust it, I will adjust the coilovers.
There are plenty of lower riding cars over here, and mostly they have to deal with approach/departure from driveways and such, not a big deal with a
Lotus.
The 4 way stops I think are what you are talking about. Pretty much you have to be aggressive about it because you will otherwise wait all day for
grandma or the lady with the cell phone strapped to her ear to make her decision. Or the idiot who waves people on even though it is their turn. The
key is to pay extreme attention and when you notice someone not paying attention, and not going when they should.. you take their opportunity away.
When this has happened enought times, they play by the rules, hopefully.
I know it sounds shallow or hardass, but otherwise you will never get where you are oging.
As far as weaving and tailgating, I do neither although I have found myself "putting pressure" on the person in front if they are going
waaaayy too slow. Or left lane bombers.. They are the worse. And I have had to be aggressive to get around people who are blocking the way - otherwise
you will be stuck behind inconsiderate people just in their own little world. But weaving and tailgating.. does happen alot here.
I think it's a cultural thing. All of us Americans think we are entitled, and anybody who tramples on our rights and so on and so on. I would
assume the British are a little more polite.
Brian
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kiwirex
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| posted on 14/5/03 at 08:43 AM |
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Seen pictures of an (apparently famous) lotus 7 called "the black brick"
Had pods on the side.
Could do something like that - give you a crushable zone.
Plus if you did it right, you could carry a sixpack or two in it.
Very different look though.
- Greg H
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Jasper
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| posted on 14/5/03 at 11:30 AM |
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Check out Ben's road cage, maybe what your after:
http://www.benedict.org.uk/
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ned
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| posted on 14/5/03 at 11:34 AM |
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Check out Ben's road cage, maybe what your after:
http://www.benedict.org.uk/
----------------
Would look a lot better if it was about 9" lower!
Andrew.
beware, I've got yellow skin
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Forcus
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| posted on 14/5/03 at 02:01 PM |
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Interesting! Thanks.
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Metal Hippy
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| posted on 14/5/03 at 04:29 PM |
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Safety aside, that ruins the lines of the car.
Personal opinion of course, but I bet quite a few agree...
Cock off or cock on. You choose.
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auzziejim
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| posted on 14/5/03 at 05:48 PM |
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hippy i agree
Cheers
James
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uberf1end
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| posted on 14/5/03 at 07:01 PM |
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Forcus,
We do a fair bit of the old 'putting pressure' on here too. Mainly because weaving and under-taking are quite severely frowned upon here
so your only option is often a bit of bullying.
I don't know if you have the same but our main problem on the motorway/freeway is people with an inate fear of changing lanes....They are not
quite as slow as the truck or grandma in the inside lane, so they sit in the middle for their entire journey. Why they seem to feel safer in the
middle lane, surrounded by traffic, is beyond me!
As far as politeness goes, I reckon it stems from being too reserved - we wouldn't want to bother or inconvenience anyone else, you
wouldn't want to cause a scene after all !!
Your lot are just a bit more prepared to 'wear your heart on your sleeve', if you are angry/happy/sad, show it!
It makes you more friendly - at least 20 random people just sparked up conversation for no reason in the 3 weeks I was there for.
We wouldn't do that - everyone you talked to would think you were a madman!
We are getting better but our over-politeness and reserve really isn't a myth 
As far as safety goes, I reckon if you get hit by a Dodge Ram (damn, I love those things), no amount of crash protection will save you 
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Forcus
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| posted on 14/5/03 at 07:09 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by uberf1end
Forcus,
We do a fair bit of the old 'putting pressure' on here too. Mainly because weaving and under-taking are quite severely frowned upon here
so your only option is often a bit of bullying.
I don't know if you have the same but our main problem on the motorway/freeway is people with an inate fear of changing lanes....They are not
quite as slow as the truck or grandma in the inside lane, so they sit in the middle for their entire journey. Why they seem to feel safer in the
middle lane, surrounded by traffic, is beyond me!
As far as politeness goes, I reckon it stems from being too reserved - we wouldn't want to bother or inconvenience anyone else, you
wouldn't want to cause a scene after all !!
Your lot are just a bit more prepared to 'wear your heart on your sleeve', if you are angry/happy/sad, show it!
It makes you more friendly - at least 20 random people just sparked up conversation for no reason in the 3 weeks I was there for.
We wouldn't do that - everyone you talked to would think you were a madman!
We are getting better but our over-politeness and reserve really isn't a myth
As far as safety goes, I reckon if you get hit by a Dodge Ram (damn, I love those things), no amount of crash protection will save you
I think the sheer height of the rollcage definitely affects the looks. While I don't know the rules for racing in England, in the US I believe
the rollcage has to extend at least 6 inches above the helmet of the driver. I imagine with smaller tubes, and a lower cage, it might look better. I
don't like how the cage wraps around the body. I think it should be confined somewhat within, if possible. But that's my opinion.
As far as driving, I think a fear of changing lanes applies here, but also often the person just does not think of changing to the inside lane - seems
like alot of people are afflicted with "head in the clouds" syndrome, or busy applying makeup or talking on cell phones. Big problem
IMO.
The Dodge Ram.. Well, one of my other trucks has a "small" 6.9L diesel and weighs around 7,000 lbs unloaded. With trailer and weight, way
over 10,000 lbs, more like 15,000 lbs.
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uberf1end
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| posted on 14/5/03 at 09:39 PM |
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That rollcage does look a bit on the large side.
If you are not using the car for competition, I couldn't agree more - a design where the cage is more inside than out would be infinitely
preferable.
Despite being more function than form, the lines of a Locost are very good without a cage. Maybe I've just convinced myself of that 'cos I
have one?
Mmmm, trucks
Before I crossed the Atlantic, I was a firm believer in small, high revving, efficient engines being the only real way to power a vehicle (hence why I
have a bike engine in mine).
However, I have since fallen for the lazy V8 or giant diesel truck that rules stateside. I now believe that the 3rd car in the garage (after the
Locost and the daily runabout) should be a massive pick-up. Shame Dodge Rams are about £30,000 over here.
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Forcus
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| posted on 14/5/03 at 11:22 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by uberf1end
Despite being more function than form, the lines of a Locost are very good without a cage. Maybe I've just convinced myself of that 'cos I
have one?
Mmmm, trucks
Before I crossed the Atlantic, I was a firm believer in small, high revving, efficient engines being the only real way to power a vehicle (hence why I
have a bike engine in mine).
However, I have since fallen for the lazy V8 or giant diesel truck that rules stateside. I now believe that the 3rd car in the garage (after the
Locost and the daily runabout) should be a massive pick-up. Shame Dodge Rams are about £30,000 over here.
It seems to me it is very easy to take the Locost design and make it dumpy. I am trying very hard not to do that with my designs.
I like high revving engines as well as torquers like my 6.9L diesel. Its redline is around 3200 RPM. Torque is very fun and means quickness without
revving the wee out of an engine. But, I am also building a BEC, soooo
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benedict
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| posted on 14/5/03 at 11:32 PM |
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The (my) rollcage is indeed a bit on the large side, especially on the height. That's 'cos I'm quite tall ~6'3" with
quite a long torso and wanted the cage to easily clear my helmet (ooo-errr!)
I do agree the lines of the car suffer because of it and the weight of the (bike engined) car suffers significantly as well.
However after my last sevenesque type car which had only a cosmetic "roll bar" it was a sacrifice I definately wanted to make.
Contributing to this is an incident when I was hit in an RTA by another Tiger (his fault BTW). He hit my front o/s wheel and ripped off all that front
suspension. If the collision had beed a fraction of a second later, he would have T-boned me in the side of where I was sitting.
Also when I was blatting round country roads it was always at the back of my mind that in the (unlikely I know) event of having a major off / incident
which may or may not be my fault then I was very exposed.
I know I probably worry too much but for me, it definately tempered my enjoyment slightly and so I decided to go for the full cage.
Looks wise I don't think it's as bad in the flesh and anyway I don't really care what people think. The bigger sacrifice is the
weight penalty but you pays yer money and takes yer choice.
I should also add that now I've got a short sump on it, the front suspension is not sitting up to quite the exessive degree it was when the pics
on my website were taken. At some point I'll get around to taking some more & redoing the website, jut don't hold your breath!
At the end of the day, I'm happy with it!
Cheers,
Ben
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uberf1end
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| posted on 15/5/03 at 10:57 AM |
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I reckon you are, of course, so right to worry but until I have that accident (fingers crossed I never do), I will continue to just try to put it out
of my mind!
I comfort myself with the thought that motorcyclists take bigger risks everyday so at least I am not quite the stupidest motorist on the road
[Edited on 15/5/03 by uberf1end]
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Forcus
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| posted on 15/5/03 at 01:01 PM |
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Benedict,
I hope that you don't take my comments as insults. It was solely my opinion. And I can't agree more on the safety. I am trying to strike
that balance between safety and looks.
At one point I had decided that looks were everything and threw safety to the wind. But I quickly became grounded again on that matter. Summer has
started here and in the time of one week, about 10 motorcyclists had been killed. Many were not killed by any fault of their own (People pulling out
in front of them, etc).
By the way, besides my other vehicles, my daily driver is a Focus 2.0 Zetec which is pretty common to the UK Focii. Small world!
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benedict
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| posted on 15/5/03 at 08:00 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Forcus
I hope that you don't take my comments as insults.
God No. No worries, I'm the first to admit it's not "pure" or
even an aesthetically proportioned cage.
quote:
It was solely my opinion
Which is totally fair enough and not actually too far from my own opinion
Though I still think it is slightly better in the flesh.
Cheers,
Ben
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Alan B
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| posted on 4/6/03 at 09:03 PM |
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Forcus, where are you based?
I haven't seen you on locost NA list I don't think...
I'm in sunny (raining now.. ) FL.....
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mdc124
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| posted on 8/6/03 at 09:40 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by benedict
..... and anyway I don't really care what people think. ..... At the end of the day, I'm happy with it!
Cheers,
Ben
Good for you.
Enjoyment is more important than looks, and:
uberf1end: half of dead bikers were half of the stupidest motorists on the road, the other stupidest half are wrapped up in their tintops - the other
half of the bikers are still dead.
If they come for you (not you personally) it won't make much difference whether its a bike or a kit car. If they come for me again - they
better bring a bigger stick! 
Good luck guys
Http://www.farend.co.uk/
The first MK Turnkey Indy
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mranlet
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| posted on 30/7/03 at 08:27 PM |
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Alan, where are YOU based? I remember talking to you and saying that I live in Tampa, but can't remember for the life of me where you are...
Anyway...
When I do my build, I'm planning on having a fiberglass tub house about 4" of that impact-styrafoam stuff along the outside portion of the
car, TVR Speed 12 style.
Personally, I think the addition of pods running alongside the car between the wheels makes for a brawny disposition. If they're functional for
safety it's even better.
As for you open-air folks, you probably didn't pick the Locost for it's safety. Basically, if you're in a wreck you're pretty
well hosed.
Forcus, the only suggestion I could offer you would be to mount a bar between the windshield and rear rollbar or maybe another tube along the outside
running level and 4" or so away from the body panels. It may not look fantastic but if would give the impression that your car is wider than it
really is and would also give you a chance at being batted away rather than run over... In the case of a Hummer, be sure to gun it and get out of the
way!
-MR
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Simon
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| posted on 1/8/03 at 10:57 AM |
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When my brother took his driving test in the US a few years ago, he mentioned the question on the 4-way stops.
Apparently it went something along those lines of:
Q. Two cars arrive at the 4 way stop at the same time, who goes?
A. Whoever got there first!!!!!!!!
benedict
"I comfort myself with the thought that motorcyclists take bigger risks everyday so at least I am not quite the stupidest motorist on the
road"
Bear in mind when you make comments like this that most accidents on bikes are caused by car driver's - using phones, day dreaming, talking,
being vain (women/makeup) etc etc etc.
ATB
Simon (motorist/motorcyclist!)
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andyd
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| posted on 1/8/03 at 12:31 PM |
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<rant>
As a bike rider (don't like the term biker!) I also agree with Simon. Some motorcycle accidents are caused by morons who just outride
themselves or the bike and end up regretting it (or dead!). Some are caused by moron car drivers who are just not paying enough attention to the
road.
I have found myself driving along and suddenly suprised that a bike has "crept up on me". This is my fault not theirs! However trying to
overtake me whilst there's another car coming the other way and whilst we are going around a blind bend is definately their fault when they wipe
out and die!
</rant>
Right that's off my chest.
Andy
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