DarrenW
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 posted on 17/3/07 at 08:49 PM |
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Pinto timing - whats yours??
What settings do you use after some experimentation and fine tuning??
Let me know what head mods, bottom end spec, carbs, ignition type, timing settings.
Im trying to get mine tweaked for a track day. Tried 10deg static to get it running. Then tried 15 deg and 18 deg at 1000rpm today and it just doesnt
feel good. Its not bad but leaves me feeling there is a little more to find.
15 deg was ok all round but didnt rev out. 18 deg revved out better but i felt some spluttering (maybe carb issue).
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Dingz
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| posted on 17/3/07 at 08:58 PM |
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Mine is about 14° at 1000 rpm. flowed injection head, 285 cam, bike carbs. Consensus seems to be 30° max at 3000 you may be getting too much
mechanical advance. Try this site for informationIgnition
Loads of other interesting stuff there too.
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Dingz
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| posted on 17/3/07 at 08:59 PM |
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Mine is about 14° at 1000 rpm. flowed injection head, 285 cam, bike carbs. Consensus seems to be 30° max at 3000 you may be getting too much
mechanical advance. Try this site for informationIgnition
Loads of other interesting stuff there too.
OOps sorry about the echo!
[Edited on 17/3/07 by Dingz]
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auzziejim
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| posted on 17/3/07 at 09:04 PM |
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mine is 8 deg with bike carbs, flowed injec head and an unknown (non standard) cam and h+h vacless dizzy
i find this to be running ok and revving well. i am however going to be taking it to be properly rolling road tuned in a couple of weeks so the timing
will be sorted for good then
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flak monkey
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| posted on 17/3/07 at 09:34 PM |
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If you are using the std dizzy (which IIRC you are) then you will get far too much mechanical advance if you set it to 18deg at idle, which will
explain your spluttering at higher revs.
I believe the standard sierra pinto running on unleaded should have 10deg advance at 1000rpm. And this gives a total of 36deg all in at 3500rpm. So
the dizzy provides a total of 26 deg advance. You can easily modify the bosch dizzy to limit the total advance (theres some info ondave andrews
website about how to do it.
I was really pleased with my H&H dizzy, but I know its really not a cheap option (£205 inc VAT and P&P)! But that gives 22 degrees total
advance from 1000-4000rpm.
With your spec of engine, I would have thought somewhere between 12-16deg at idle would be good. But it does depend what you are getting when its all
in. Worth having a look at with your strobe. Max you should ever see on a pinto is 38deg all in.
David
Sera
http://www.motosera.com
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DarrenW
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| posted on 17/3/07 at 09:51 PM |
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I should have said that i tried 18 deg with vac disconnected. 30 deg at 3000 rpm with vac disconnected gave 15 deg at 1000rpm.
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jacko
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| posted on 17/3/07 at 09:54 PM |
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Hi Darren i have bike carbs - flowed head -285 piper cam h&h non vacuum dizzy 10% start---to 36% and it gose and pulls like a steam
train
Graham
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DarrenW
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| posted on 17/3/07 at 10:15 PM |
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Hi Jacko,
I reckon i need to get bike carbs fitted!!!
After a 10deg static set up to get it running it was running OK but needed some tweeks. Hence trying some different timings. 15 deg and 18 deg were
interesting but not outstanding. Maybe i have high expectations that cant be realised. Ive tried redlines ideas for carb setting, and found i was
about right to start with but still no idea if this is a bit rich or not (it could be possible that jets are a bit lean, but borderline so).
Im on trackday 2nd April and fully intend to do some tests. Will possiby draw up a quick design for experiments type triel and download some data to
laptop to see which one works best - only issue is my driving skills are crap and hence wont be a constant.
Ive rigged up narrowband lambda but as everyone suggested it doesnt give clear indicatios as to what is going on. maybe i need some more practice.
So - my dizzy is vac type. Should i leave vac off or connect it?
i
Interestingly i recorded max revs of 7,800 ish at 18 deg. Struggled to get over 7K at 15 deg. I might try it back at 12 deg and see what happens.
[Edited on 17/3/07 by DarrenW]
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Dingz
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| posted on 17/3/07 at 10:55 PM |
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Darren the vac advance will only work at low throttle openings, open it up and it has little or no effect. It is there mostly to improve economy. If
your setup allows you to use it then keep it on.
You haven't said what cam/carb(s) you have.
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DarrenW
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| posted on 17/3/07 at 11:04 PM |
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Kent Fr32 cam (285??), head skimmed 40 thou, basic porting job, std 2.0 bottom end. 38DGAS carb (allegedly jetted for 2.0 but no idea if ok or not),
std type 9 gearbox, 3.62 diff, 15" alloys (lightweight DTC's), T1S toyo's. Approx 580kg wet weight. 700 with me in (max).
ign is brand new bosch early electronic dizzy.
I want 0-62 in less than 6 secs but doesnt seem to be there.
[Edited on 17/3/07 by DarrenW]
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jos
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| posted on 18/3/07 at 09:28 AM |
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7,800 revs
F**k me thats alotta revs for a pinto
.: Motorsport / motor racing circuit / track wall art Apex Traxs :.
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Peteff
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| posted on 18/3/07 at 11:08 AM |
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Bog standard inductive discharge (black box)
Mine runs 12° of advance at tickover. Any more and it pinks like b*st@rd and won't rev. Set up with the vac disconnected and the pipe blocked
off. Tickover under 900rpm and the engine fully warmed up. Any more would need octane boost especially if you up the compression I think.
yours, Pete
I went into the RSPCA office the other day. It was so small you could hardly swing a cat in there.
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Memphis Twin
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| posted on 18/3/07 at 11:48 AM |
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good friend of mine hillclimbed a Westfield with an absolute dogs-bo**ocks all steel, full race 2.1 Pinto. Awesome engine, but he never revved it
over 7200, as maximum power was tailing off long before then.
If you want to keep your engine in one piece SLOW IT DOWN.
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DarrenW
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| posted on 18/3/07 at 07:53 PM |
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i normally only take it to mid / high 6K's as a rule. I only revved it out to see what it would do - no more than 1 second at that. I got a
shock when i checked the DD2 max readings to be honest. Not sure if its right - ive only maxxed out at 6900 before that.
Im going to back it off to 12 deg and then take it up a little at a time on the next track day. It didnt run too bad at 10 degs.
Ive decided to forget the carb for now. Change one thing at a time. Ie tweak timing first, then tweak carb and if required fine tune the timing.
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TangoMan
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| posted on 18/3/07 at 08:44 PM |
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Darren,
You are looking at the wrong figure. You need to plot the advance at various rev pionts and especially max revs. You will need to be looking for
around 38 degrees all in by around 3500-4000 and will probably want it coming in quicker than standard as there is no vacuum to pull up the
midrange.
A good roling road session wil tell you what you need at what revs. The springs on a standard vac dizzy will probably not be what you need. Can you
not borrow an adjustable timing light to check what max advance you are getting.
While playing with maps I found not a lot of differerence between a couple of degrees so your issue may be fuelling, or lack of it. But if you have
seen 7800 revs I can't think there is much wrong with it.
Without a steel crank there will be though if you do that too often
Summer's here!!!!
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DarrenW
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| posted on 18/3/07 at 09:01 PM |
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Ref timing light i have a digital Snap On advance timing strobe so no probs in setting what i want and checking at various rev points.
I also have magejolt sitting on a shelf, toothed wheel and sensor are bolted to engine, coil pack and leads also in stock. - just dont want to fit
right now as i have a track day coming up in 2 weeks and no idea what map i should be using. I would be well narked if i got to the track and was
prevented some fun because the MJ wasnt set up correctly.
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jacko
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| posted on 18/3/07 at 10:09 PM |
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Hi Darren mark the crank pully at 36% take the vacuum pipe of and block it . put a timing lamp on -rev the engine to 3000rpm and turn the dizzy till
36% is on the timing mark tdc . dip the dizzy clamp
let the engine tick over and look to see what the timing is then
this may help you . i must say the best thing for money is going on a r/ road + fitting Bike carbs
Jacko
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DarrenW
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| posted on 18/3/07 at 10:23 PM |
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Cheers Jacko. With my strobe i can set the advance on the digital display and then just line up the TDC marks.
Its interesting what you say ref 36 deg at 3000 rpm. I tried 30 deg at 3K which equated to 15 ish at idle.
Am i right in thinking now that if i set it up at between 32 and 36 degs at 3000 rpm;
1. when revs reach 3500 to 4000 the advace might be a little more, utopia is around 38 degs max.
2. set up with vac advance disconnected and dont even think of using it again,
3. If i did reconnect the advance pipe up the total advance would be mad.
So in essence what im trying to do is set the advance to come in totally at somewhere between 3K and 4K, using the std weights and springs to get a
compromise and do away with the vac advance system. So basically this is just a compromise and explains why people prefer (eg) H&H dizzys that are
modified. This is all leading me to suspectthat i should just fit the megajolt so i can tweak the settings and not have such a compromise.
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jacko
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| posted on 18/3/07 at 10:32 PM |
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I see your problem you do need a modifyed dizzy with your engine --fr32 cam -head mods etc or as you say use megajolt .
I went for the dizzy from h&h my self
just fit it and forget it
all the best and hope to see you at one of the show Graham
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snapper
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| posted on 20/3/07 at 10:35 PM |
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quote:
Without a steel crank there will be though if you do that too often
The crank is good for over 8,000 it's the rods, 7,200 for the injection rods and the standard piston ring lands that crumble at sustained high
revs.
Fiesta diesel rods (lots of work to fit these but cheap) 8000 rpm, V6 pistons 7500 to 8000 rpm.
Cosworth rods and forged pistons upto 9000 but you are now in steel crank territory
I eat to survive
I drink to forget
I breath to pi55 my ex wife off (and now my ex partner)
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