Astronautics engineer Jon Jennings has this week set up an online petition with the Prime Minister's office to call for the title of
"engineer" to be recognised and protected as a professional one, in a similar way to other professional titles.
Jennings has joined an escalating list of people using 10 Downing Street's online petition trial to drum up support for campaigns they believe
in.
"Car mechanics, plumbers and electricians are now commonly referred to as engineers, and banks now regard engineers as semi skilled," says
his petition.
With very few signatories to date, the petition already tops the "business and industry" category. But it still lags well behind the road
pricing petition which received 1.7M signatories before it closed on Tuesday and even falls short of the 3,707 who want the prime minister to stand on
his head and juggle ice-cream.
So if you agree that the status of the engineer is undervalued in society sign the petition:
http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/Engineer-Status/
Oh and of course pass it on to all your engineering friends.
so what about frank dibbner, he was a real engineer but with no qualifications, can he not use the title?
You mean fred dibnah? I was under the impression he was a steeplejack
An engineer will have the paperwork to prove it! At my place of employment, we have 'engineers' that are only called such because they are
employed as 'engineers'. Most are skilled workers with a trade but some were just at the right place at the right time.
Would a Nurse claim to be a Dr??
Not sure what the point of my posting was but never mind!!
Fred Dibnah was a true craftsman and artist. Not an engineer or a boilersmith or a miner etc......
He was also a funny little man.
I'm an engineer so spelling's not my strong point 
but the point stands, he knew more about true engineering, than a lot of uni grads do
nowadays.
I agree in principle that the title engineer is miss used by some people, but there needs to be a better definition process.
As I was always taught, it's ok to find a problem, but it's no good complaining without a robust solution (or solutions) in your answer.
just my two penneth
quote:
Originally posted by carnut
You mean fred dibnah? I was under the impression he was a steeplejack
When reading through CVs for en engineer, most potential employers only read the last job the candidate had. If that job was as an
'engineer' and the refs were good, why not employ them? It doesn't make them an engineer though!!
You need to be able to read imperial verniers to be a 'proper' engineer!
A very valid point. the last grad we had I sat and watched trying to take a brake calliper off, after 10 mins of watching him tighten the bolts, I
explained the anti clockwise would loosen them
quote:
Originally posted by owelly
You need to be able to read imperial verniers to be a 'proper' engineer!
hes got two honoury doctorates does that count?
So has Clarkson.
quote:
Originally posted by snapper
hes got two honoury doctorates does that count?
Define an engineer.
Stu
quote:
You need to be able to read imperial verniers to be a 'proper' engineer!
Fred Dibnah, in his own words was a "back street mechanic".
He knew what an engineer is and would've never had the temerity to call himself one 
quote:
Originally posted by nib1980
So has Clarkson.
quote:
Originally posted by snapper
hes got two honoury doctorates does that count?
quote:
Originally posted by coozer
quote:
You need to be able to read imperial verniers to be a 'proper' engineer!
Hmm, does that mean Europe engineers are not 'proper'??
I've not seen a drawing in our engineering department that uses anything but the Romans measurements!
Its generally old guys who can't move on as is required to survive these days...
This post was not made to start an argument and i did not write it. (i pasted it from an email). The idea of this post was to give Engineers the same
status as their equals in other proffessions such as accountants.
Carnut
quote:
Originally posted by carnut
This post was not made to start an argument and i did not write it. (i pasted it from an email). The idea of this post was to give Engineers the same status as their equals in other proffessions such as accountants.
Carnut
lol, joking in case you take me seriously
quote:
Define an engineer.
Down here in the colonies, at least in Queensland, the "Professional Engineers Act" prohibits anyone using the term "engineer"
unless they are eligible for Membership of the Institute of Engineers Australia.
Basically it stops things like the "night soil collection man" calling himself a "sanitary engineer" 
and such like.
The result is that dealing with an "engineer" means that the person has relevant tertiary qualifications. Doesn't mean he's
particularly clever or anything, but at least he's obliged to carry Professional Indemnity insurance to fix his mistakes.
I agree washing machine "fitters" should not be called engineers, but most of the engineers I have come across have suffered far too much
education and could not find thier arse with a bit of bog roll outside the little world they are "expert" in.
My wife always terribly funny that my qualifications are in civil engineering.
As she rightly points out I'm the least "civil" person she knows.
In the yellow pages under "boring" it used to say "see civil engineers", I can vouch for that!
Cheers
Chris
So does that mean the 6 years of blood, sweat and tears that I spilled for an HNC in engineering were for nothing? If I am not a skilled man, then who is?
quote:
So does that mean the 6 years of blood, sweat and tears that I spilled for an HNC in engineering were for nothing? If I am not a skilled man, then who is?
I am afraid that engineers that have a degree and no experience do not deserve to be called engineers. Engineers that have spent many years
practically working and solving problems deserve the title Engineer whether or not they have a degree or HNC or whatever other qualification.
Unfortunately the Institutes do not recognise years of experience unless backed up by a degree which is unfortunately worth less and less as time
goes by and the system is massaged to provide more and more worthless graduates. So I for one will not be supporting this petition.
Caber
Here here.
Most definately with Caber on this one!
quote:
Originally posted by owelly
You need to be able to read imperial verniers to be a 'proper' engineer!
)
we've now got the 16 year old son of the head of that department - strait out of school and he's already doing much better !
LOL you mean this? ( relighting the flames of the old mechanical / civil divide)
Rescued attachment DSC00574.JPG
Someone with many years experience can become a 'qualified engineer' by means of the Chartered scheme cant they? I agree a degree on its own does not make an engineer, but equally years of experience doesn't always equate to a true understanding! I think the title should be protected (and engineering should be better paid and respected) but the term needs to be clearly defined first...
A Doctor is a Doctor as soon as they've passed a certain set of exams regardless of experience, so why shouldnt an Engineer be an Engineer in the
same circumstances?
Being an engineer should be "first base" as it were, from that starting point there should (and are to an extent) additional levels of
Engineers to indicate experience / expertise as there are with doctors (GP, consultant etc), but I certainly agree there should be a defining set of
criteria that you need to achieve to allow the term "engineer" to be used in your job title at all, such as meeting the qualifying criteria
for the IMechE (for Mechanical Engineers) or equivalent maybe.
Chris
BEng Mechanical Engineering
Exactly, thats what the CEng qualification is.
Carnut MEng
You take a degree which is chartered by the IMechE or IET or whatever they are calling themselves now (changed last year I understand?!), similar to
what I am now completing.
Then you gain relevant work experience for at least 2 years and you can apply to become chartered, i.e. CEng
If you have an apprenticship, HND or whatever and have worked in engineering you can also become chartered in a way. You can apply for what is called
Incorporated Engineer status (IEng).
Theres plenty of info on the IMechE website if you are interested:
http://www.imeche.org.uk/membership/academic_requirements.asp
IMO you should only be able to call yourself an engineer if you have the correct level of education. People seem to be confused between an engineer
and a fitter/technician. Just because one has a degree and the other an apprenticeship doesnt make one cleverer than the other. Their skills/training
lie in different areas, we need both to be able to 'engineer' anything. I doubt there are many fitters/technicians who could carry out the
job of an engineer, and visa versa. However with the appropriate training no doubt one is as capable as the other.
Experience does count for everything, but you need the foundational knowledge to apply in practice in the first place. You then adapt and contiue to
learn from your experience.
If you are a graduate engineer looking for a job you will appreciate how difficult it is to find one which doesnt say 'minimum 3 years related
work experience'. I know some really useless 'engineers' however its not because they are stupid, its purely because they hae no
experience, this doesnt devoid them of the engineer tag though.
David (Soon to be MEng Manufacturing Engineer)
PS I know if I were born 15 years earlier, I would be on an apprenticeship and not at uni! Thankfully I have the ability to get plenty of hands on
experience from my father who is apprentice trained
[Edited on 28/2/07 by flak monkey]
hi lads i just thought i'd give my 2 pence worth as well. A lot of people think that university grads are skilled people especially engineers
etc but when these people are employed by a company the bosses all turn round and say how the hell did he/she get through that course they
wouldn't know the sharp end of a knife from the handle. The thing is the point of university courses are to show employers that he/she has an
ability to learn the type of work they will be required to do. When the person starts work they will have to learn everything from scratch. I'm
not saying university is bad i'm just saying that for things like mechanical engineering and civil engineering maybe workers in these positions
should go through an apprentiship along with their degree etc which will show them how to apply what they have learned in Uni in the real world
I've probably gone off on a tangent here but i'm just in from a very long shift as a maintenance engineeer!
I agree with what you're saying, some of the top academic students on my course (at Brunel) wouldnt know a spanner from screwdriver, but
"engineering" isnt solely the traditional idea of an old hand in the machine shop who's forgotten more than most know, then passing on
his knowledge to an apprentice. An engineer these days is more likely to be be sitting in front of a computer number crunching fluid dynmanics
calculations than making something on a CNC machine or actually making / building something
In some ways I think thats half the problem, when you say to the general public "picture in your head the stereotypical Doctor" they'll
think of someone in a white coat with a stethoscope round their neck, if you do the same with "engineer" they'll most likely think of a
car mechanic, the chap who fixed their washing machine last Tuesday, or the aforementioned old git beavering away on a lathe.
Civil engineering? "Gonna dig me a hole"