batteredoldsupersport
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| posted on 4/3/12 at 12:38 AM |
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Engine for a Scimitar Coupe
I'm new here so go steady, I hope this is in the right place. It's basically a lengthy talk about engines, mostly for my own curiosity.
A mate has a 60s Scimitar, he wants to restore it from its current non runner state. He wants to use it as a daily driver so restoring the Essex seems
pointless on thirst grounds. He fancies either one of the NOS Zetecs from that outfit in Hull for about £700 or a Dura from a crashed Mondeo. He has a
Ford box and OD, not a type 9, I don't know what it is or what ratios it has. My thinking is that a T9 would be easier.
Is it true you can't use the stock injection/ECU on a kit car Zetec install, if so why not? Also does the same apply to the Dura? There will be
immobiliser issues I imagine. Are there any other show stoppers? I would have thought the easy route would have been to try to persuade the Zetec it
was still in a Focus, but bolt it to a T9 and sort out a water rail. I know it's been dome on an Escort and a few Cateringvans, but they all use
Emerald or Megajolt and I haven't seen one running injection yet.
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owelly
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| posted on 4/3/12 at 12:56 AM |
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Greetings BoSS. Good to see you on here. Prepare to be amazed by the oodles of knowledge flooding out of your monitor any minute now.....
http://www.ppcmag.co.uk
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batteredoldsupersport
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| posted on 4/3/12 at 01:06 AM |
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Thanks owelly. I look forward to an ocean of car related yapping from those more knowledgeable than I. Not difficult, the only things I know owt about
these days are k's, 2CVs, and low-rent Vauxhalls. Oh, and if it needs pedals to go, I'm your man.
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snapper
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| posted on 4/3/12 at 05:53 AM |
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Zetec can run Ford ecu Duratec PATs is a bitch to sort and means hiding dash from donor and other bits to make it work.
My engine of choice would be the Granada Cosworth 24v V6, easy install and 200 lazy bhp.
Remember 130bhp in a 2.0 Zetec and 130bhp in a 3.0L V6 means the bigger engine is likely to have more torque starting lower down the revs
I'm interrogating Megasquirt at the moment and it's daunting just to get somewhere near a basic understanding.
I eat to survive
I drink to forget
I breath to pi55 my ex wife off (and now my ex partner)
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mookaloid
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| posted on 4/3/12 at 09:31 AM |
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A thing to remember about the scimitar is that it weighs about the same as the Granada of the day so a smaller engine with less torque will not be as
good as the Essex in a heavy car like that.
For a daily driver worried about fuel consumption in a Scimitar - I can think of some interesting options - the Jag 3.0 V6 240bhp from an S-type which
might still be a bit thirsty or for 204 bhp and 410NM of torque how about a BMW 330d diesel engine and box?
"That thing you're thinking - it wont be that."
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big_wasa
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| posted on 4/3/12 at 10:28 AM |
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I doubt the Scimitar is any heavier than a mondeo.
Yes the zetec will run fine with the ford ecu. Standard power is 136~145 and should give nearer 150bhp with breathing mods.
150bhp in a Scimitar isnt going to set the world on fire but should be great as a daily hack.
Not had the chance to play with a duratec yet. Any one got a donor I can play with ? 
Mine
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batteredoldsupersport
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| posted on 4/3/12 at 10:51 AM |
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Nice Zetec on injection, no ex manifold! Not surprised the smaller boy is covering his ears!
Like you I don't think the Scim is any heavier than a Sierra. There's not much to it, OK the chassis is a bit agricultural but after that
it's a bathtub with precisely no mod cons. Weight saving by not fitting worthless tat in the first place, seems like a good proposition. As you
say 150bhp isn't a ball of fire in a car weighing about a ton but I don't think he's that bothered, just wants something different
to use now and again because his new Mini diesel thing may do 65 to the gallon but bores him to death. Good news re Ford ECU.
The other suggestions are interesting. I hadn't thought about outside the Ford stable (it's a Scimitar after all!) andthere are some
cracking engines out there. The RWD ones will have a working box too, no need for adaptors and butchered bellhousings. I take your point about torque,
we all know 100bhp in a Land Rover will out-pull 100 bhp from a 1300 Fiesta. I used to have a 1.4ss Cateringvan, great power over 4000 rpm but if you
got it bogged down around 2000 rpm round town it accelerated like a milk float. Nevertheless if it's too fruity the guy just won't use it,
and that would be a shame, so I think there is a ceiling of 2 litres, diesels aside. I'm not sure he's a diesel fan. I know I'm not,
I know bugger all about them except that when they break they present huge bills.
So, the easy choice so far is a Zetec with a Ford ECU, unless someone comes along and says "Don't be daft, soft lad, an XYZ comes out of
the old car, reuse the key, ECU, injection gear, connect up fuel and 12V, 200bhp, 35 to the gallon, and you'll have it running in an
afternoon!"
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Volvorsport
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| posted on 4/3/12 at 11:09 AM |
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get some back issues of PPC , one fitted with a vauxhall v6 and manual box , the other with a 525 bmw diesel engine .....
of course the best engine to fit is a.............B230ET 180hp ......job done they even have a 4 speed and overdrive like the original ones
www.dbsmotorsport.co.uk
getting dirty under a bus
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Chippy
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| posted on 4/3/12 at 11:34 AM |
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There was an artical in PPC some time ago of a guy who fitted a BMW diesel in a Scim, really neat install and over 50 MPG. Bit more of a job to do but
well worth the effort. IMHO Ray
To make a car go faster, just add lightness. Colin Chapman - OR - fit a bigger engine. Chippy
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batteredoldsupersport
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| posted on 4/3/12 at 01:13 PM |
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Ooh, that's worth knowing. I'll tell him about that, he can get a back issue.
That Volvo engine is a peach, I drove one (or similar) in a 740 years ago. It was the first car I'd ever driven that at 120k miles still drove
like new. Back in the 80s that was a big deal, everything else was knackered by that time. I'm not sure it would fit the bill on economy though.
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Volvorsport
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| posted on 4/3/12 at 02:29 PM |
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30mpg on my 940 turbo .......
www.dbsmotorsport.co.uk
getting dirty under a bus
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hillbillyracer
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| posted on 4/3/12 at 02:30 PM |
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Vauxhall V6 Scimitar: http://www.ppcmag.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=9176
Zetec can be run own management out of the car: http://www.ppcmag.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=9576
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big_wasa
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| posted on 4/3/12 at 02:58 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by hillbillyracer
Zetec can be run own management out of the car: http://www.ppcmag.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=9576
Yep and Lcb is where he found the info
One of the first ive done.
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owelly
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| posted on 5/3/12 at 04:04 PM |
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And another lifted from PPC.....
http://www.ppcmag.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=7377
http://www.ppcmag.co.uk
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scimjim
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| posted on 5/3/12 at 10:42 PM |
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Hi - Long-time lurker and buyer of bits for my hill climb SS1 project (1.8 CVH on twin 40s/megajolt & type 9 sierra LSD diff)
Checkout www.scimitarweb.com for full details of the aforementioned installs - the coupe front suspension uprights are narrower than the SE5 or SE6,
so I doubt a 24v 2.9i or omega v6 would fit without big mods (and the 6 pot oil burner intrudes into the cabin :-))
[Edited on 5/3/12 by scimjim]
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ettore bugatti
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| posted on 6/3/12 at 09:21 PM |
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A Zetec doesn't seem to be a great engine for a grand tourer, but that might be just an idea.
I recon a Ford DOHC 2.3 from a fisheye Scorpio might be very nice, you get the benefit of a bit more torque over a Zetec. However a 2.5 Vauxhall V6
might be as economical in real live.
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jimmyjoebob
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| posted on 6/3/12 at 10:12 PM |
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I would recommend a 12v 2.9 cologne. No bodywork mods, about 30mpg and very smooth.
Have a search for the converted coupe on the scimitar forums nicknamed darkstar. It has been mildly tweaked to about 200hp.
 
Darkstar scim coupe
Also checkout this page for inspiration! Sporting-reliants
Darkstar is about 7/8 the way down.
The 12v cologne might not be a huge power increase on paper compared to the essex but it is a much better engine. In 2.9 form it doesn't suffer
the lack of torque the 2.8 variant does. It also responds well to tweaking whilst being fairly economical. For an everyday car it is the best
compromise.
[Edited on 6/3/12 by jimmyjoebob]
If at first you don't succeed, hide all evidence you ever tried!
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Simon
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| posted on 6/3/12 at 11:13 PM |
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I was gonna suggest a diesel, however, the engine the Scimitar should have had was the Rover V8. Kerbweight of car was <1200kg
Get an injected 3.9, a slightly lower diff ratio and you should get better than 30mpg - I gave my 3.9 Range Rover a fast run over 140 miles (A road)
and got 28mpg so sensible use should see greater then 30mpg in the Scimitar
ATB
Simon
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ScimitarMatt
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| posted on 10/3/12 at 04:49 PM |
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HI there,
sorry for hijacking the thread but could I ask a favour please? Could you please ask your friend with the scimitar coupe to send me the details of the
car for our club (RSSOC) register? He can download a word version of the form from my website at www.scimitargt.co.uk
thanks again and best of luck for the project, Matt
.....................................
RSSOC Coupe Registrar
coupe.registrar@rssoc.co.uk
RSSOC Committee- Press Officer
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batteredoldsupersport
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| posted on 11/3/12 at 02:04 PM |
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Thanks for the interesting replies, I will have a chat with him when I next see him. ScimitarMatt - I think he has been in touch with you but I will
check. The Coupe is of particular enthusiast interest as it's the rarer version, as you know.
Did the 2.9 Cologne go in any production cars BTW? One of the granadas maybe? It would be an easy fit, for sure. If it had injection so much the
better. Progress is, after all, progress.
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scimjim
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| posted on 11/3/12 at 03:30 PM |
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quote:
Did the 2.9 Cologne go in any production cars BTW?
The 2.9i was never fitted to a production Reliant - but they sold the GTE rights to Middlebridge who fitted it to their short-lived GTE (see
http://middlebridge-scimitar.co.uk/) there are several aftermarket conversions (12v and a few 24v) around. There are also a few 4 litre Cologne
conversions around.
Have a look at this coupe rebuild in Oz with 4
litre Cologne if you want to feel inadequate :-)
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Superleggo
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| posted on 6/12/12 at 11:32 PM |
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V6 engines
Big Wasa is right it was on here that I found the info on how to get my zetec running on the original ECU including PATS for my VW camper project
For more info see http://www.vwkd.com/bb/viewtopic.php?t=3525&start=0
for the engine running see http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cEZoWfukGBI
However I I have got a couple of Scimitars SE5 as well. I tried to fit a V6 cosworth into one of them but gave up as as everything seemed in the way.
The SE5 is 4'' narrower than the SE6 so it seemed like too much hassle. I now sold the cosworth engine but wondering what is the best
option for the SE5's. A Zetec would be cheap and I now understand the wiring so could get an easy 134 hp but somehow a fell I should put a V6 in
so I guess the Omega engine is the obvious choice but this is my current thinking. I plan to have one of them as a fast road car with sensible MPG and
cheap donar
Feel free to correct me if I am wrong
The Omaga V6 engine made about 216hp in police spec and came with a manual box but the 3.0 engine in most cars was an auto in most cars with about 170
bhp so I would have to find multiple donars to run it as a manual. possibly an easy box to modify the gear linkage.
Ford V6 makes about 165hp and bolts to a type 9 box with ease but difficult mod to gear linkage.
BMW v6 diesel sounds sensible but I have never seen one. I guess as I runs in RWD format being a BMW. Is the gearbox linkage easy to modify?
I think Owelly is running an Alfa V6 but the gear box bellhousing was a problem
What other V6 options are there with nice RWD gearbox bolt on options? I am open to offers 200hp woulf be nice
Any thoughts for my scimitar se5 welcome
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spiderman
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| posted on 7/12/12 at 02:32 AM |
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PPC oil burner was in issue 48 April 2008 if no one else has posted it already.
Just found a download link of it.
http://www.ppcmag.co.uk/feature-articles/view-all-products.html
hope that helps.
I would definitely have one as an everyday workhorse for collecting parts for all my other projects. One day maybe.
Spider
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snapper
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| posted on 7/12/12 at 07:27 AM |
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Ill throw an oddball in
VW VR6 engine ( I had one in a Ford Galaxy) as narrow as an inline 4 but an easy 190bhp
I eat to survive
I drink to forget
I breath to pi55 my ex wife off (and now my ex partner)
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britishtrident
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| posted on 7/12/12 at 08:32 AM |
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The Scimitar chassis was a really heavy bit of of kit and the body although GRP wasn't exactly paper thin having said that getting rid of
the dreadful Essex V6 will make a massive difference. The overdrive gearbox in the Scimitar was a special based on Transit parts, it is a very
strong but heavy gearbox.
The biggest problem selecting a replacement is likely to be the tall final drive ratio. Even the slightly more modern Cologne 2.9 V6 would feel
strangled pulling such a tall ratio and the same goes for a RV8 at least in SD1 3.5 form.
The rear axle is from the same family as those fitted to MK2 Jags and a ratio change wouldn't be on.
However the final drive ratio would work well with a diesel
The other option is is accept the Essex engine's faults get it running and convert it to LPG --- it is a relatively simple & cheap
engine to convert.
[Edited on 7/12/12 by britishtrident]
[I] “ What use our work, Bennet, if we cannot care for those we love? .”
― From BBC TV/Amazon's Ripper Street.
[/I]
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