BenB
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| posted on 30/3/09 at 11:24 AM |
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F1 podium demotion
Now that Hamilton has been given 3rd does that mean Trulli has to hand over a slightly champagne splattered 3rd place trophy to him or does the FIA
make a new one especially? It would be strange to think that Trulli would want to keep it. Then again, if they're appealing maybe he does...
Small point- but I just wondered.....
It's scary to think that Youtube have pulled videos filmed by fans after the FIA requested it. Does that mean the FIA "owns" any
photos or video shot inside of the venue during a grand prix?
Good thing there are some sites in the world that are less chicken. Not the most exciting video in the world though, just shows Trulli sliding off the
road.
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Paul TigerB6
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| posted on 30/3/09 at 11:30 AM |
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I would say the trophy was taken off him myself.
As for the video's on Youtube - anyone doing so is actually in breach of the terms and conditions of their ticket and Bernie is extremely
protective of his copyright.
The following is straight off the T's & C's of the 2009 British GP site
here
"14. The use of photographic equipment is allowed for private purposes only. All other recording and any transmission is prohibited. As a
condition of entry to the Event you assign (by way of present assignment of future copyright) the copyright in any photographs or recordings you make
at the Event to Formula One Administration Limited ("FOA" and agree that any photographs or recordings you make shall not be used for any
form of public advertisement or display or for any other purposes including without limit for display on any internet site (except the private
enjoyment of the person making the film) without FOA's prior written consent."
[Edited on 30/3/09 by Paul TigerB6]
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britishtrident
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| posted on 30/3/09 at 11:36 AM |
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I am pretty sure Trulli knew he had lost his third place before he even got out the car , Hamilton's 3rd place will stick --- but I bet if he
hadn't let Trulli pass him he would have been the one with a 25 second penalty .
25 seconds is much too heavy a penalty, 1 place demotion to 4th would have been fairer but the FIA wallah's don't allow any flexibility
in penalties that can only take effect post race.
As to the FIA pulling the videos the copyright belongs to CVC which means Max, Bernie and Donelly can pretty much call the shots. As to the motives
for pulling the videos ...................... !
[Edited on 30/3/09 by britishtrident]
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omega 24 v6
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| posted on 30/3/09 at 11:43 AM |
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For me it seems only fair that he was demoted after what hamilton had done to him at Spa last year.
HOWEVER call me cynical but It'd be more interesting to see what penalties apply if/when the red cars find themselves in this predicament.
As for the copywrite well it seems quite fair IMHO. Worst case scenario would see all cameras banned from spectators when they enter the circuit.
If it looks wrong it probably is wrong.
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fesycresy
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| posted on 30/3/09 at 12:01 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by omega 24 v6
HOWEVER call me cynical but It'd be more interesting to see what penalties apply if/when the red cars find themselves in this predicament.
Are you trying to say there is favouratism towards Ferrari ?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The sooner you fall behind, the more time you'll have to catch up.
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Paul TigerB6
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| posted on 30/3/09 at 12:08 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by fesycresy
quote:
Originally posted by omega 24 v6
HOWEVER call me cynical but It'd be more interesting to see what penalties apply if/when the red cars find themselves in this predicament.
Are you trying to say there is favouratism towards Ferrari ?
Shocking suggestion!!! He'll be saying Bernie wants Massa to win this year's championship next!! 
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YQUSTA
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| posted on 30/3/09 at 12:15 PM |
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The problem with the whole after race bs is there is no 1 person assigned to make on the spot decisions.
If for instance they had 1 guy/gal that was in charge for incidents then all would be ok.
for example take Sunday if the 2 teams were in a conf call with the guy/gal in charge he/she could have made an instant decision to what if anything
each team/driver should do.
so lets just say that ham was doing every thing correct and didnt have to give the place back. each of the teams would have been told at the same
time. result no confusion no 25 sec pen and trulli would have got 4th
and vice versa if ham had to give the place back.
this I think is the biggest mistake in f1 atm with regards to rules.
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speedyxjs
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| posted on 30/3/09 at 12:17 PM |
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Iv just read on f1.com and the 25 seconds has dropped him down to 12th
How long can i resist the temptation to drop a V8 in?
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Tiger Super Six
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| posted on 30/3/09 at 12:28 PM |
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I assume you have all realised that if the Brawn's are thrown out for the diffuser then Hamilton wins!!!
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David Jenkins
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| posted on 30/3/09 at 12:53 PM |
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In that case, Bernie will make sure that the diffuser is accepted - unless he can get Hamilton on a technicality as well...
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l0rd
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| posted on 30/3/09 at 12:55 PM |
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I would like to see these difusers banned.
For sure though, i would preffer if the teams are not disqualified in order not to let Hammilton take the win.
I like Button a lot more than him.
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BenB
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| posted on 30/3/09 at 01:03 PM |
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Call me silly but I can't work out how you can have a "perfectly horizontal" surface that's curved.... I suppose if it's
perfectly horizontal in a fore/aft direction but not side to side.....
Tricky one to decide what to do. Some teams have stuck 100% to the rules and other teams have taken the rules to the very edge (and possibly beyond
that!!)... The design of the Brawn car apparantly means a total redesign would be necessary if they had to have a flat diffuser...... Tricky tricky
tricky....
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Paul TigerB6
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| posted on 30/3/09 at 01:42 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by l0rd
I would like to see these difusers banned.
Nooooooo - i want to see them deemed legal as per the initial scrutineers interpretation last week!!
The whole idea behind Formula 1 should be inovation within the rules and pushing those rules to the limit. Just because a few teams missed the boat on
the advantage this diffuser design gives that other teams have identified such as Brawn doesnt mean it should be banned!! Sounds like sour grapes to
me and i am glad McLaren werent one of the teams lobbying against the design unlike Red Bull et al, but instead say they have plenty of work to do to
catch up. Red Bull know they have missed a trick there i recon, and also know they cant copy the idea closely due to having pull rod rear suspension.
Would they be complaining if their pull rod suspension idea gave them a big advantage?? Doubt it!!
Good on Brawn F1 and Toyota etc I recon - this could be a great year of racing so long as the stewards dont come and bugger it up again!!
[Edited on 30/3/09 by Paul TigerB6]
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britishtrident
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| posted on 30/3/09 at 01:51 PM |
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I would but a bet on is that what will happen is that an adjustment of the rules will be pushed through to put a 100% watertight ban on the diffusers
before the European part of the season starts, but existing race results will stand.
[I] “ What use our work, Bennet, if we cannot care for those we love? .”
― From BBC TV/Amazon's Ripper Street.
[/I]
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MK chippy
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| posted on 30/3/09 at 02:04 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Paul TigerB6
quote:
Originally posted by l0rd
I would like to see these difusers banned.
Nooooooo - i want to see them deemed legal as per the initial scrutineers interpretation last week!!
The whole idea behind Formula 1 should be inovation within the rules and pushing those rules to the limit. Just because a few teams missed the boat on
the advantage this diffuser design gives that other teams have identified such as Brawn doesnt mean it should be banned!! Sounds like sour grapes to
me and i am glad McLaren werent one of the teams lobbying against the design unlike Red Bull et al, but instead say they have plenty of work to do to
catch up. Red Bull know they have missed a trick there i recon, and also know they cant copy the idea closely due to having pull rod rear suspension.
Would they be complaining if their pull rod suspension idea gave them a big advantage?? Doubt it!!
Good on Brawn F1 and Toyota etc I recon - this could be a great year of racing so long as the stewards dont come and bugger it up again!!
[Edited on 30/3/09 by Paul TigerB6]
What he said^^^^^
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britishtrident
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| posted on 30/3/09 at 02:28 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by MK chippy
quote:
Originally posted by Paul TigerB6
quote:
Originally posted by l0rd
I would like to see these difusers banned.
Nooooooo - i want to see them deemed legal as per the initial scrutineers interpretation last week!!
The whole idea behind Formula 1 should be inovation within the rules and pushing those rules to the limit. Just because a few teams missed the boat on
the advantage this diffuser design gives that other teams have identified such as Brawn doesnt mean it should be banned!! Sounds like sour grapes to
me and i am glad McLaren werent one of the teams lobbying against the design unlike Red Bull et al, but instead say they have plenty of work to do to
catch up. Red Bull know they have missed a trick there i recon, and also know they cant copy the idea closely due to having pull rod rear suspension.
Would they be complaining if their pull rod suspension idea gave them a big advantage?? Doubt it!!
Good on Brawn F1 and Toyota etc I recon - this could be a great year of racing so long as the stewards dont come and bugger it up again!!
[Edited on 30/3/09 by Paul TigerB6]
What he said^^^^^
Within reason ----- what would be grossly unfair is the Lotus 88 situation where a car which is deemed legal by the scrutes is banned by an instant
rule change before the race. The diffusers definitely take the mickey out the rules but the rules weren't properly framed. Giving Brawn and
co a few races with the diffusers before they are banned would be the wisest way of dealing with it --- how long is it going to take Mclaren and
Ferrari et al to catchup anyway -- not long. I bet.
[Edited on 30/3/09 by britishtrident]
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motorcycle_mayhem
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| posted on 30/3/09 at 02:57 PM |
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Podium demotion is one thing, but the penalties imposed on anyone getting into a bit of difficulty overtaking/defending do seem far too severe
(Vettel).
Penalties for forming an orderly queue might help though!
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Mix
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| posted on 30/3/09 at 03:42 PM |
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Hi
On a related issue, personally I'm surprised Rubens 'got away' with what he did!
Regards Mick
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BenB
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| posted on 30/3/09 at 04:15 PM |
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Yup, he sure was a bit banzai!!! Not sure how he could blame anyone for the first corner accident....
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russbost
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| posted on 30/3/09 at 06:04 PM |
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Agree with most of what's being said here. One thing I find ridiculous tho' is that the Toyotas which were deemed ok by the scrutes to
practice then finished up being stuck on the back of the grid due to excessive flex in the rear wing, surely it would have been fairer to simply make
them race with legal rear wings - if they had been making any significant difference then the cars would then be substantially slower & justice
would have been done, as it obviously made no difference to their speed whatsoever (hence Trulli's 3rd place that wasn't!) it seems
grossly unfair to move them to the back of the grid.
Rubens first corner shunt wasn't all his own doing he was rammed from behind by Kovi in the McLaren, tho' I suspect he may well have made
some contact without the "assistance", don't think it would have been so violent tho'
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matt_gsxr
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| posted on 31/3/09 at 04:38 PM |
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F1 is a club.
Diffusers won't be banned until Brawn has sorted out sufficient sponsorship to see them through.
This way Bernie and Max can rub Honda's nose in it, whilst at the same time strengthening the F1 bond.
It's continually fiddled with to make it good to watch (and to fill Bernies pockets). What is strange (as a brit) is that the rules are
manipulated for this same goal. It goes against my sense of fair-play.
Its like getting rid of demotion in a league competition. It takes away the sport, but makes it more of a viable business/show.
Good to watch, but not worth getting worked up over.
Matt
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Mark Allanson
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| posted on 31/3/09 at 10:03 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by matt_gsxr
F1 is a club.
Diffusers won't be banned until Brawn has sorted out sufficient sponsorship to see them through.
This way Bernie and Max can rub Honda's nose in it, whilst at the same time strengthening the F1 bond.
It's continually fiddled with to make it good to watch (and to fill Bernies pockets). What is strange (as a brit) is that the rules are
manipulated for this same goal. It goes against my sense of fair-play.
Its like getting rid of demotion in a league competition. It takes away the sport, but makes it more of a viable business/show.
Good to watch, but not worth getting worked up over.
Matt
I heartily agree, like saturday afternoon wrestling in the 70's only noisier.
If you can keep you head, whilst all others around you are losing theirs, you are not fully aware of the situation
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