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What to do to a car to race prep it?
StevieB - 24/10/11 at 09:33 PM

Following on from my previous thread really, but going a bit off track (pun very much intended), can anyone give me some rough guidance on what would need to be done to a car to take it from a road car to race car.

Cheers

Steve

noc231073 - 24/10/11 at 09:40 PM

what are you intending racing with?

owelly - 24/10/11 at 09:41 PM

I scoop the dead leaves out and put it on a trailer....

StevieB - 24/10/11 at 09:45 PM

How about using this as a starting point, as I pretty much know the costs involved and can work out a comparison from there.

StevieB - 24/10/11 at 09:47 PM

quote:
Originally posted by owelly
I scoop the dead leaves out and put it on a trailer....


Dead leaves have never graced any of my cars, I'll have you know!

(maybe if I did have some dead leaves in there, they'd soak up the massive fuel leaks and prevent others from getting a face full of unleaded )

owelly - 24/10/11 at 09:56 PM

quote:

How about using this as a starting point, as I pretty much know the costs involved and can work out a comparison from there.


I'll come with you to collect it!!

MK9R - 24/10/11 at 10:19 PM

Completely the wrong starting point, wrong engine, wrong spec, wrong car, wrong price! You couldn't have picked a less suitable car

Now this is a good starting point, its ready to go, proven, all the right kit, loads of development already done but and still scope for further development.

http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/sales/3262318.htm

StevieB - 24/10/11 at 10:36 PM

I have good reason for picking that car - I built it

Reason for picking it would be to understand the cost involved. Since I know what every part cost me, it makes the exercise easier for me. I know I could just buy a race ready car, but I'm just doing my homework on the matter

I wouldn't dream of buying it back at that price in a million years, he's asking a lot more than it cost to build (got a business idea to build another Indy and export to Spain though!)

[Edited on 24/10/11 by StevieB]

MK9R - 24/10/11 at 10:51 PM

quote:
Originally posted by StevieB
I have good reason for picking that car - I built it

Reason for picking it would be to understand the cost involved. Since I know what every part cost me, it makes the exercise easier for me. I know I could just buy a race ready car, but I'm just doing my homework on the matter


Oops, LOL! So you own it, or mean buy it back?
I'd have a Full cage with side impact protection (ok not 100 needed by regs, but in this type of car advisable), extinguisher, Master cut off, if racing in a road going class it must have a reverse, approved and in date 5 point harness. That would get it on track, but would need a lot more development to get it anywhere near competitive, eg Its an old engine, so to get it up there powerwise it would need a transplant, so that's a minimum £2500+

I converted my road registered ST zx9r locosaki and put it onto the grid for my first ever race, sold it the following week and bought a purpose built and proven fury as it was cheaper than developing the ST. Sorry to keep harping on about it, but its by far the best choice

StevieB - 24/10/11 at 11:11 PM

I sold the car shortly after building it (wife lost her job so thought best to sell).

I wouldn't buy it back for that money - plus some cretin has spoiled it with fake carbon fibre vinyl crap as well.

The reason for picking that car was so I could understand the cost differences since I know what the build cost of the Indy was and can therefore do a reasonable exercise in budgeting a race car build. I won't convert a car but rather buy something race ready or build a race car.

Steve Hignett - 24/10/11 at 11:42 PM

quote:
Originally posted by StevieB
I won't convert a car but rather buy something race ready or build a race car.


I'm sorry, but I'm not surprised a couple of people are a tad confused, either I'm a bit dumb (yes, yes, almost defintely!!!) or you are slightly contradicting yourself and asking a bit of a pointless question.

I know I should keep my nose out of it, but quite a few people (knowledgeable people, and I don't include me in that one!) have told you the best course of action on at least two of your previous similar threads. Don't get me wrong, you might have a lottery win (big or small) that you want to keep secret and have no job so all your time is your own, but if I were in your position (I am def not - 6 months unemployed and not a penny to my name!), then I would be heeding the other people's advice, specifically the people who have done what you want to do for years and years and know the pitfalls and consequences, the learning curves and unknown costs etc...

Please feel free to mind my own business, and I hope I haven't caused any offence, as it is really not my intention...

ATB
Steve

Steve Hignett - 24/10/11 at 11:45 PM

quote:
Originally posted by MK9R
Completely the wrong starting point, wrong engine, wrong spec, wrong car, wrong price! You couldn't have picked a less suitable car

Now this is a good starting point, its ready to go, proven, all the right kit, loads of development already done but and still scope for further development.

http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/sales/3262318.htm


That seems like a great car let alone a great starting point!
It's a buyers market out there at the moment and the £7850 is just an asking price, not necessarily what may be accepted... Don't get me wrong, it might go for every penny of the asking price for a variety of reasons, but it doesn't mean you can't ask some questions...

As above, don't mean to offend...

Steve

BobM - 25/10/11 at 03:31 AM

quote:
Originally posted by StevieB
How about using this as a starting point, as I pretty much know the costs involved and can work out a comparison from there.
I'm with the others, start with a race car. Only reasons I can see for going the converted road car route is if you like a challenge and enjoy building/modifying and/or particularly want a race car you can use on the road (not so daft as it sounds, I plan to IVA my BDN mostly so I can take it out for shakedowns).

But to answer your question:

TimC - 25/10/11 at 04:21 AM

Please forget the Indy. I can't comment on the Indy R but I promise that you will get murdered in an original chassis. I won't list the supplementary reasons (there's a few) but the main issue is the rear geometry which is just wrong.

StevieB - 25/10/11 at 06:29 AM

Steve - I was a bit concerned my question wasn't clear - all I wanted to do was understand the differences between a standard se7en type car and a race car. I know people have recommended I just go and buy a race car but frankly it's not in my nature to spend a large amount if money without doing my homework on all the options available

Bob - many thanks, that's the sort of thing I was looking for

Dopdog - 25/10/11 at 06:41 AM

it seems very simple to me, you know the cost of building your road car? then triple it to make any decent track/race car!!! i too am not sure why you are asking these questions if you know how to build a car?

PS don't forget

better shocks
gearbox
suit
gloves
helmet
boots
set of wet tyres
trailer
car to tow trailer
fees
license
repairs

eddie99 - 25/10/11 at 10:39 AM

I agree that for most buying a race car complete has been cost efficient. However most would know on here that it doesnt always work your way, In my case i got what i thought was a bargain, turned out to have some serious issues which has now meant im building the car with a differnt chassis, suspension and engine from what it originally came as. Just using the uprights/brakes and shocks/front body of the original car. And it certainly hasnt been cost effective.

So therefore i just want to emphasis if your buying a car, buy a race PROVEN car.

However we tend to all be on LCB because we like building/tinkering, doing it all ourselves and for that reason do your own thing, go and race it. You'll get a much bigger sense of joy if you build something and develop it.

Dopdog - most of those factors you listed would be there even if you bought a race ready car. So i think thats irrelevant.

[Edited on 25/10/11 by eddie99]

BobM - 25/10/11 at 03:25 PM

quote:
Originally posted by eddie99However we tend to all be on LCB because we like building/tinkering, doing it all ourselves and for that reason do your own thing, go and race it. You'll get a much bigger sense of joy if you build something and develop it.

Quite right, which is why I've built my last 2 race cars from scratch :-) It's a good job I enjoy building and maintaining them cos I'm crap at racing them :-)

To the OP - loads of us will be at the Birkett on Friday/Saturday at Silverstone if you fancy having a look round some cars and having a chat.

Andy D - 25/10/11 at 03:56 PM

Here you go:

A racing car, ready to go for £1150

Richd - 25/10/11 at 06:46 PM

You can race anything if youre just looking to get out on track. The safety equipment is a must but youve got the NSSCC up near you and a bike engined 7 type would mix it quite nicely in amongst those chaps.

If youre looking to go out and win from the off you may need to look at the class structure and find a winning chassis, engine etc combination. But thats the fun of developing your car.

There are plenty of guys in the series who will help out.

Cheers
Rich

steveiow - 25/10/11 at 07:03 PM

I will be at the Birkett on Saturday - come find us, Team #19 (mine is the green car in my avatar). You are welcome to look around. We will be in Garage 4B

bobinspain - 26/10/11 at 04:11 PM

quote:
Originally posted by StevieB
I have good reason for picking that car - I built it

Reason for picking it would be to understand the cost involved. Since I know what every part cost me, it makes the exercise easier for me. I know I could just buy a race ready car, but I'm just doing my homework on the matter

I wouldn't dream of buying it back at that price in a million years, he's asking a lot more than it cost to build (got a business idea to build another Indy and export to Spain though!)

[Edited on 24/10/11 by StevieB]


Stevie,

I've been in contact with the seller (Miguel) a really helpful chap. He's given me some good info on kitcar insurance.
MKs are assembled out here and marketted as 'Garbi' prices start at 26,000 euros, so Miguel's asking price isn't as toppy as it seems.
To get the car matriculated for road use out here, you're looking at the best part of 700 euros in fees plus lots of hassle.
I'm using a professional import company, and their fees are 785 euros on top of that. (Miguel, being Spanish did his own matriculation).
The problem right now here is that nothing's moving. Two years ago your car would have sailed away at 13k. Unemployment here is running at 21% and between ages 16-25, it's 50%. Things are grim. However, there's an R1 engined Garbi (MK) that's been for sale for a year here at 22,000 euros. It's 4 years old and the guy hasn't budged on his asking price. (See, there are dreamers out here too).
See www.autoscout24.com Asking prices are crackers. That's why nothing's moving.
For interest, the diff on your old car '84 I believe is the year the car's registered as over here. Consequently, it's registered as a 'classic' and costs Miguel 145 euros to insure. The bad news is it needs an ITV (MOT) annually, being more than 10 yrs old.

Regards, Bob.

StevieB - 26/10/11 at 04:55 PM

I wasn't passing comment so much on the value if the car in the Spanish market as u figured the inflated price wax to do with ease (or lack if) of building and registering a kit on the continent.

I was more commenting on the fact that I could build z much higher spec car in the uk for what amount to about £11k

Dopdog - 27/10/11 at 05:34 PM

quote:
Originally posted by eddie99

Dopdog - most of those factors you listed would be there even if you bought a race ready car. So i think thats irrelevant.

[Edited on 25/10/11 by eddie99]


Sorry eddie but i do not agree with you here, he is talking about changing a road car to a race car. are you saying he will not need better shocks, uprated gearbox different tyres? and not sure who you buy your cars from but do they come with boots gloves and suits.

i think you have missed the point.

i agree we all like to build and tinker with our cars but i think we have all lost the way in this thread

eddie99 - 27/10/11 at 05:37 PM

I agree about tyres and gearbox but out of this list, Gearbox, suit, gloves, helmet, boots, trailer, fees, license dont change whether you convert a car or buy a race car.


[Edited on 27/10/11 by eddie99]

Dopdog - 27/10/11 at 07:50 PM

fair enough point taken, but question remains what is he going to do

StevieB - 28/10/11 at 02:50 PM

I'm not going to do anything, I was just curious...