Just thought I would drop a quick pic of my latest project.


And if someone could explain how to resize pictures in photobucket, future images will be more sensibly sized!

PIXresizer is a free download and re-sizes photos easily.

any more info?

Based on Haynes roadster, BMW 6 pot engine and box, currently 2.0 but will be 2.8 before its finished. More up to date photos with some bodywork as soon as I can resize them.

Same as mine, tight fit innit

Your right about that! What radiator are you using?

I'm not that far on. I've literally made the chassis fit the engine and box then had to stop to get my garage extended so I've enough room to build it properly. Probably get started again in the spring. Here's what I've done to the chassis- http://www.ppc-mag.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=9383&sid=4f18c834009b6dff522250767af0c955

Surely that's crying out for an M3...?

quote:

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Originally posted by rodgling
Surely that's crying out for an M3...?

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M3 engines are over £1000, I paid £30 for the box, engine, loom, Ecu and quick shift stick!

quote:

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Originally posted by sg_frost
M3 engines are over £1000, I paid £30 for the box, engine, loom, Ecu and quick shift stick!

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Just read that link. I have completely removed that lower tunnel bar, not really needed. Both sides of the engine are triangulated, the one you cut out. The top tunnel cross bar has stayed, but the tunnel is slightly wider. But.... the engine sita a lot lower than yours. I have the bottom of the bell housing 3-4 inches off the floor with a completely newly fabricated sump. Front crank pulley sits behind front cross member. More photos to follow.

Think you should have gone diesel myself

ATB

Simon

This car is being built at a Motor Vehicle College party because I want to, and partly to engage students in learning. We started the project last November, and have only spent 3-4 every Thursday night during term time and the odd Friday afternoon.


Original plan was sierra engine and box


Then came this lump

Yeah, that's a fair point about the cost of the M3 lump, and the 328 is still bloody quick in a 7 (my car used to have a 328 in it) - you won't be disappointed by it. Plus the 328 is a slightly lighter engine which is always good.

Optimum balance pedal box


Compfy seats


BMW and Sierra prop are a perfect fit.


As it currently sits

Where are you based? I'm in the process of building a Viento with a 2.8 BMW engine in it. Have a look in my photo archive for progress. I'm just about to start to try to get the BMW electrics to work, so it might be useful to compare notes.

Electrics are a diddle ( worked at two BMW garages before started teaching). Car is ahead in Rhyl, north wales

with the mods you've mentioned you're looking at 220bhp tops

Having an m3 lump nets you 2000rpm and 100bhp more.

Search on YouTube for "frosty BMW engine" have a giggle. Will try to post a link, on iPhone at the moment.

Afraid I think Franky's right about the power (a bit more if you do the cams but that's very expensive for what you get). But you can sort out the rev limit to something more sensible and it will still be v quick.

Why aren't you using the BMW rear end?

ATB

Simon

I plan on using standard 2.8 which when new were 192 ish bhp. I get scared with anymore . It's only a toy, been rallying for years so this is just a project.

Nice video - assume there's some fuel going into it from the other side of the engine...

quote:

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Originally posted by Simon
Why aren't you using the BMW rear end?

ATB

Simon

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Will the Sierra diff take the torque though?

[Edited on 17/11/12 by rodgling]

Should do, the welded prop or tyres should give up first I would have thought.

Plus I used to have a 2.9 XR4x4i that was cammed and that one got thrashed and lived

[Edited on 17/11/12 by sg_frost]

quote:

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Originally posted by franky
with the mods you've mentioned you're looking at 220bhp tops

Having an m3 lump nets you 2000rpm and 100bhp more.

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quote:

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Originally posted by rodgling
Will the Sierra diff take the torque though?

[Edited on 17/11/12 by rodgling]

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quote:

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Originally posted by sg_frost
Just read that link. I have completely removed that lower tunnel bar, not really needed. Both sides of the engine are triangulated, the one you cut out. The top tunnel cross bar has stayed, but the tunnel is slightly wider. But.... the engine sita a lot lower than yours. I have the bottom of the bell housing 3-4 inches off the floor with a completely newly fabricated sump. Front crank pulley sits behind front cross member. More photos to follow.

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Sump is now level with bottom of gearbox, 3 wires it took to get it running in that video.

quote:

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Originally posted by sg_frost
3 wires it took to get it running in that video.

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Depends if yours has ews or not

quote:

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Originally posted by sg_frost
Depends if yours has ews or not

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Not much, think there is only 5 wires in them too. Let me know what year it is and I will have a look for the wiring diagram.

quote:

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Originally posted by sg_frost
Not much, think there is only 5 wires in them too. Let me know what year it is and I will have a look for the wiring diagram.

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Mine has EWS as well. I have a pdf document with a comprehensive wiring diagram. Unfortunately I cannot remember where I downloaded it from, but if anyone wants me to send them a copy on e-mail, just U2U me with your address. I'm running all of my engine management wires through the big circular BMW connector on the engine loom (X20 in BMW wiring diagrams, I think)

My concern is not so much getting the engine to start, but to make sure that it does not just default to limp home mode. I understand that there are a number of sensors that the ECU is expecting a signal from, such as the ABS speed sensor, and that without these engine output will be limited. I think that I can get round this on mine as my front sierra hubs had ABS sensors on the donor, so I plan to try to fit a BMW abs sensor from the scrappy to one of these.

The other issue is where to pick up the rev counter signal from as BMW engine have coil packs on each spark plug...

... still, figuring this out is all part of the fun.

Forgot to mention, my engine is out of a '97 donor

[Edited on 18/11/12 by SteveWallace]

Does not need abs signal, the abs controller is separate so no worries there. As for rev counter, the is a wire in that x 20 it for rev counter from the Ecu. Everything you need is in that x20. Black and yellow is ignition feed, big light green is crank, green and violet is feed to fuel pump. Earth the pump, the engine and the Ecu and it fires. Ews has other wires, two go to engine Ecu, one is crank feed, one is to starter and the other is maybe an earth, has been about 3 years since I played with ews so I may be confused.

Thanks for the advice. You don't happen to know what the rev counter signal that goes through the X20 is by any chance? I don't think its as simple as a pulse every time that a selected cylinder fires

It could be that simple actually as the clocks are not interchangable between a 4 pot motor and a six pot motor. Not got as far as ordering gauges yet.

I spoke to someone from ETB gauges a couple of months ago and they were testing some gauges that they say will work on BMW electrics (I guess that they can see the donor market going that way). I'm going to give them a call soon, so I'll do an update on here when I have more information

A great project, if we ever finish our build it would be nice to make our own chassis next time.

Just something I found on the tinterweb so I take no responsibilty for it accuracy, but it worked for me.


I've been going through a few E36 etms, gathering up data on the X20 plug.

The X20 is the large connector between the engine loom and the car loom, which will usually be next to the fuse box

This list I guess is a work in progress, and It is probably better regarding it as a guide, but it should help speed things up.

X20


1 - GE CAN HIGH DME>ABS/ASC/EGS
2 - BR CAN LOW DME>ABS/ASC/EGS
3 - GR/VI DME>EXHAUST FLAP MS41 (SW/GN TEMP SWITCH>INST M1.7.3/M5.2)
4 - SW/BL DME>A/C RELAY MS41/MSS50/M50
5 - SW/GR SW/BR(SW/GR M50) DME<AC PRESS SWITCH (GN/VI>AUX FAN MS41)
6 - VI/GR DME>CLIMATE ON SIGNAL
7 - GN DME<EWS SIGNAL(RT/WS<GN M51 SW/VI<GN 4CYL) (SW/VI DME<OBC M50)
8 - RT/WT DME RELAY (SW/GR DME>AUX FAN RELAY M5.2) (GR CHECK ENGINE M50)
9 - BR/RT-WS/GR/GE (WS/GN) ABS SIGNAL DME-ABS / OIL TEMP>INST M3
10 - BL/GE REVERSE LIGHT>
11 - BR/GE ECTEMP>INST
12 - BR/VI ECTEMP>INST
13 - GN/VI EKP RELAY>EKP
14 - SW/WS DME<SPEEDO OUTPUT (M1.7.3 MSS50 M41)
15 - SW/GN T30H STARTING>OBC/ZKE
16 - WS/GE RXD DIAG
17 - WS/VI TXD DIAG
18 - SW/GE T50 STARTER<IGNITION/EWS MSS50
19 - WS/GN SERVICE>INST
20 - SW TD ENGINE SPEED>ALL
21 - GN POWER T15> IGNITION SWITCH
22 - GN/WS T15S RUN/START
23 - BR/GN OIL PRESSURE WARNING LIGHT>INST
24 - WS/SW TI DME>INST
25 - SW (M3 318TDS (BL M50) ALTERNATOR>INST




There are 25 pins in total, I've been sticking to a bit of a key, treating it as Engine Loom>Car Loom.

The key is-
Pin Number -
Wire colour - engine loom side (German, main / stripe)
Wire colour - car side if different
Signal name
>output or <input
Destination

for example-
7 - GN DME<EWS SIGNAL(RT/WS<GN M51 SW/VI<GN 4CYL) (SW/VI DME<OBC M50)

Pin 7
GN - Green wire,
DME's input from the EWS
Green on both side usually
(RT/WS red/white stripe connected to green on car side for M51 Diesels)
(SW/VI black/violet stripe connected to green on 4cyls)
(SW/VI black/violet stripe connected to the OBC for the CODE feature on M50 non EWS)

This is the immobiliser wire which may carry either the EWS signal on EWS cars, or a simple "don't start if grounded" (Autobox position, CODE, alarm etc) on non EWS cars.



&#8195;
There may be errors, there are lot of changes, and I've been through 2-3 different ETMs gathering data but here's a more detailed guide to each wire.

1,2 - CAN high and low, this is a data signal of engine speeds, road speeds etc, and is shared between a bunch of different modules such as the Autobox, and ABS/ASC. These may not always be present
3 , this controls the exhaust flap on 328s or a temp switch on 4 cyls
4 - output to the Aircon relay to switch the A/C on
5, Aircon Pressure switch, lets the ECU know whether the a/c works or not. On MS41 (323/328) this seems to be also linked through the Aux fan relay too, so the fan will only switch on if there is A/C pressure
6 - Aircon on signal from ECU to A/C module, A/C button etc
7 - EWS or DWA signal, grounded=no start on non EWS, for EWS cars, this needs to put a coded signal to the ECU
8 - This is a power supply, it keeps the EWS supplied with power (always on) or may go to the Aux Fan relay on M44 cars. This is also the live that gets switched for flashing the Check engine light on OBD1 cars. If you remember the OBD1 check engine light, you connect a live wire to this pin, and the ECU will ground it allowing power to flow and light a light bulb if you are trying to do code reading
9 - This is an ABS signal on most cars, I believe it is the "reduce power" signal, but also M3s use this as the Oil temp sensor for the instruments
10- Reverse light switch
11/12 - Temp sensor signal from the dual temp sender to the temp gauge in the Instruments. One part send a signal to the ECU, the other connects just to the instruments. Some late cars such as compacts don't use a direct
link like this, they use a data signal from the ECU
13 - Switched output from the fuel pump relay on the engine loom to the fuel pump
14 - Speed signal input to the ECU from the clocks.
15 - "Starter activated" signal, this is sent out to devices like the radio etc, getting them to shut off for a second to route more power to the Starter
16,17 - Diagnostic lines, TXD and RXD
18 - T50 - Terminal 50 is the start signal, live when the starter is activated
19 - Service light reset from Diag plug pin 7 to the Instrument cluster to reset the lights
20 - TD RPM signal from the engine to the instruments
21 - T15- live wire when the ignition is at run or start, (but not at the Acc / radio on), power signal to ECU
22 -T15S - This seems to be a switched live output, when the ignition is on, and may connect to the reverse lights on some models
23- Oil pressure warning light to instruments
24- Ti fuel consumption signal from the ECU to the instruments/OBC
25 - D+, output from the alternator to the alternator / battery light.



German Colours are as follows-

BL - BLUE
BR - BROWN
GE - YELLOW (Pay attention to that one!)
GN- GREEN
GR -GRAY
OR - ORANGE
RS - PINK
RT - RED
SW - BLACK
VI- VIOLET
WS- WHITE
TR - TRANSPARENT


Most cars will have a few of those missing and unused, but if you are experiencing problems after an engine conversion, have a look at both the engine loom side, and the chassis loom side, and make sure everything is where it should be.