dashin_dave
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 posted on 5/9/02 at 10:06 AM |
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cost of locost racing?
hi guys,
considering putting myself right in over my head and building 2 locosts at once, a daily driver, and a racer; but firstly....
i know what the book says, but... what sort of budget needs to be dedicated to a season of locost racing?
is racing at hobby level, or do some people take it more seriously and throw new rings into engines every few races ect?
how much, realistically, needs to be spent on building a competitive one?
thanks for any advice
dave
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JohnFol
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| posted on 5/9/02 at 02:40 PM |
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The regulation restrictions ensure that big money won't prevail. There may be additional wear and tear on a race car, but the cost is in . .
Approved roll cage
fire extinguishers
750 membership
Race licence (and hence medical etc .. )
fire proof suit / shoes / helmet
race entry fees (£100-£150)
travel to races (most are midlands and north)
trailer + tow bar
On the plus side, you don't need SVA (saving several £100's), tax, mot, insurance. . .
I am building to race next year. So is Visco and a few others. What might be worth doing is meeting up some months before to see where people have got
to, and try and arrange a closed track day for setting up and testing the cars.
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Rick
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| posted on 5/9/02 at 03:37 PM |
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Hi Dave, it realy depends on how near the front you want to be. I have been to a few meetings now and the front runners have £10,000 cars.
I was quoted £1000 plus parts for a racing engine buy Burton power products.
If you see guys selling sets of tyres that look usable, it is because they put new tyres on at almost every meeting.
Most front guys will practice the day before the meeting, thats another £200.
We are doing the same as you, but i have now had to sideline my road car to get things ready for March.
It can be "cheap" but not if you want to win.
But thats only my opinion. Maybe there is somone who knows better.
But it don't look cheap to me.
Rick
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Jon Ison
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| posted on 5/9/02 at 05:37 PM |
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that old quote eh......... ?
"how fast can you aford to go ?"
apllies in every form of motor sport with locost not been exempt. 
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Rick
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| posted on 5/9/02 at 06:21 PM |
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Jon don't get disheartend.
We will see you there in march and we will all still have a great time.
What I have seen has been very close racing and looks good.
I am trying to go to one of the next meetings, to try to pick up a few more pionters.
I think "cheap" and "racing" don't go together.
But racing and fun do 
Rick
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JohnFol
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| posted on 5/9/02 at 06:53 PM |
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Jon, if you are talking about racing a Locost then whole heartedly agree with you. Without restriction you'd see twin weber 40's, fuel injection,
NOS, turbo's . . .whatever you could afford
However for racing in the 750MC formula there are strict limits on what can be done. For example a 23/24 weber carb is still a 23/24 weber carb. Money
means you get a new one rather than 2nd hand, but the performance difference between them? I'd say the driver would have far more an effect. . .
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Jon Ison
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| posted on 5/9/02 at 08:24 PM |
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having been involved in motor sports for over 20 years iv'e seen this debate time n time again.......
IMO when tuning regs are tight then there will allways be poeple trying to get that extra bit, the little gains cost a fourtune against such
regs.....to gain horse power using 40's, big valves, fancey cams ect....is easy to an extent, but when your talking max 70hp (just a figure) engines
in standerd trim then if you can get 75 by spending 2k some one will, then you need 76, so he needs 78.......
now i aint got the answer but i'm sorry its still "how fast can u afford to go"
i would buy into the "its the driver" bit more if all the cars/engines where prepared by the same company/person and lots where drawn for the cars
at the start of the race.....
one of the best idea's i ever saw to keep costs down was done by "Mablethorpe Sandblasters" some years ago, don't even know if there still around
but anyway the top 3 in the championship had to sell, or at least put there car up for sale at the end of the season for £500, just an idea....
now in no way am i knocking the locost series its driver's or future drivers, iv'e even attended 2 meetings this season and yes driver skill will
and does play a part, but the guy with the "trick" bits will usually be found at or near the front....
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dashin_dave
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 posted on 5/9/02 at 08:57 PM |
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hmm.. i see...
as far as i could tell, the regs allowed for a bog stock 1300 +90 thou, with a bit of balancing, an almost stock cam, and a poxy lil weber.. how on
earth can that cost 1000 POUNDS PLUS PARTS???
last engine i had built was a 4 bolt mains 327 chev, which, with all machining, including a sleeve in one pot, and new pistons, ARP rod bolts, big
cam, new lifters, valve springs, hi vol oil pump, 700 holley carb, so on and so forth, it ended up costing me a bit over A$2600, including buying the
engine, which is STILL under 1000 pounds...
how many of these races are actually south, or at furthest lower midlands....?? (i've no idea with places if you just reel names off)
jon, for reference sakes, what trick bits are allowed in the locost series, and roughly how much do you think they cost?
FINALLY.... are the lolocost original chassis permitted in races, or does it have to be 100% book???
P.P.S finally take two.... someone hazard a ballpark figure as to what a hobby type racing locost would sting me to complete?
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Jon Ison
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| posted on 5/9/02 at 09:06 PM |
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the one thing i would add to the debate, and we commented on it at Cadwell, there was excellent racing all down the field, with full grids and
some.......your always gonna get a race with sombody......
the only point i'm, tring to make is..."if a series is so tight on the regs how on earth in an 8-10 lap race can people get lapped ?"
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locodude
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| posted on 5/9/02 at 09:40 PM |
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Hi Dashin?
Mar 10 Mallory
Mar 17 Donington
Apr 6 Oulton
Apr 27/28 Brands
May 18/19 Cadwell
Jun 15/16 Pembrey (2)
Jun 29/30 Lydden (2)
Jly 27/28 Silverstone
Aug 10 Snetterton
Aug 31 Cadwell
Sep 14/15 Snetterton
Oct 20 Mallory
5.2. GENERAL DESCRIPTION: The 'LOCOST' Championship is for Competitors participating in cars built to the specifications outlined in the book
"Build Your Own Sports Car" written by Ron Champion. Cars must be fully road legal and be capable of passing an MoT. Road Tax, Insurance and MoT are
not required. Trade plates are not acceptable. Cars will be run in one class.
5.7. ENGINE: Only a Fomoco (Ford Motor Company) cast iron 1300 X flow cylinder block may be used. AX type blocks are not allowed. Maximum rebore is
standard+0.090" using standard pattern 1300 X flow pistons, with a minimum bowl diameter of 53.8mm and minimum bowl depth of 13.8mm. Pistons not to
protrude above block face. A Fomoco l300 Xflow crankshaft and conrods must be used. Rod end bolts are free. Balancing of crankshaft rods and pistons
only by removal of material from those areas specified for the purpose by Ford; a maximum of three rods and pistons may be adjusted. A Fomoco 1300
Xflow cylinder head casting must be used. It is permitted to fit valve seat inserts to allow the use of unleaded fuel. The profile of these must be
identical to the standard 'non insert' head; maximum inside diameter on the port side of the inserts to be 33.5mm inlet and 28.09mm exhaust. Maximum
valve sizes are Inlet 1.5", Exhaust 1.24". Replacement valve guides may be fitted but only cast iron guides may be used. Other than these
modifications no material may be added to or removed from the cylinder head. Fomoco 1300GT camshaft or Kent Cams equivalent (P103/4) may be used. The
use of offset dowels is permitted. Vernier timing gears are prohibited. Sump design is free and oil pick-up pipe may be modified. Dry sump lubrication
is prohibited. A modified oil pump may be used but it must be mounted and operated as per the standard Ford fitment. A Fomoco 1100 or 1300 Xflow
flywheel and ring-gear must be utilised; material may not be removed other than from those areas specified by Ford for the purpose of balancing. The
minimum weight of flywheel and clutch assembly including flywheel and crankshaft mountings bolts shall be 10.5kg. Clutch must be as per the standard
type. A heavy-duty clutch cover may be used but must be the same configuration as the standard item. Thermostat may be removed or, if used, must be of
standard type. The only modifications permitted are those listed above. It is the competitor's responsibility to ensure that no prohibited
modifications have been carried out, if they are using an engine not assembled by them.
Any more info visit
http://www.750mc.co.uk
Chris PTM
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locodude
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| posted on 5/9/02 at 09:54 PM |
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Too right james!!!
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D Beddows
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| posted on 5/9/02 at 10:40 PM |
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Ok, I'll introduce myself properly. I'm the unfortunate bloke that builds up and prepares Brett Townsends car(s) (no.41) in the Locost championship
and I also build his engines. As he's finished comfortably in the top three in the past couple of races, and had a pole position and a fastest lap I
guess he must be one of those £10k cars that have been mentioned. BUT four years ago I'd never built a car and Brett had never started a motor race.
Locost racing is very cheap motorsport, and as motorsport is hellishly expensive that doesn't mean much. Honest? to put the new car on the grid cost
about £8k (including £900 for new engine parts btw - the reason the top engines are quick is mostly because, apart from the castings, they are pretty
much brand new blueprinted engines with all the work that entails), a half decent exhaust will cost you over £300 as well.....it goes on. The changing
tyres every couple of races thing doesn't happpen (people are starting to get into data logging now though ).
But that's at the very front of the grid, and it has to be said that we do get suprised on a regular basis by people with donor car fresh 1300GT
engines (eg Tim Grey this weekend) so you never know! You'll probably always find that no matter how good or bad a driver you are and no matter how
fast the car is there will be someone you can have a good race with so go on! give it a go!
I realise people on here generaly speaking for some reason don't believe a word I say and I'll probably now get slagged about this posting as well -
fair enough if you actualy are currently racing a Locost.........
Dave
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bob
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| posted on 5/9/02 at 10:53 PM |
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Dave
Keep posting mate,and if we are wrong please tell us cos thats what its here for.
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D Beddows
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| posted on 6/9/02 at 12:54 AM |
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Cheapest for a half decent car?....bit of a how long is a piece of string question - if you're a capable mechanic/engineer, are able to weld together
a chassis that isn't banana shaped and happen upon a 1300 Ghia or Sport MK 2 Escort with decent running gear then you could probably build a pretty
good car for about 4.5K, maybe a bit less.
The engine is the key to cheap and competitive, forget about what head casting you have etc etc that's irrelevant, if you can find yourself a 1300GT
engine that's got a bit of life left in it, hasn't been mucked about with, and has a FORD GT camshaft (NOTE FORD). Spend under £100 getting it
rolling road tuned (absolutely vital) and a top 10 finish wouldn't be out of the question - driver ability permitting of course!
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JohnFol
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| posted on 6/9/02 at 09:53 AM |
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Dave, I questioned Kent on their P103/4 and how it differs from the Ford cam. My question was
"Do you know how this compares to the original GT camshaft from the Ford 1300 cross-flow engine?"
This was their reply.
quote:
The idea was to produce a cam based on the standard GT profile but Blueprint
it.
The is supposed to give you the maximum legal profile your allowed to run.
I've also heard that fi the cam gets changed it's recommended to fit XR2 followers.
What's the deal?
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Jon Ison
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| posted on 6/9/02 at 05:22 PM |
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"Don't believe a word you say"
tell me who said that, and when ? cos i aint seen or read such a post.
my only point is/was speed costs money, if you don't develop, improve any race car it will get left behind,
just a quikie 4 U... Class 1 autograss cars, bog standerd minis, absolutley no mods whatsoever, standerd everything down to air filter, wheels, carb
needles, even seen a car fail scrutineering because rear side pocket had been moved, (not removed) to allow roll cage foot to take a better
angle.....anyway these cars are the cheapest form of autograss car you can build, mot failed minis with glass out n go...
the front running cars change hands for over 3k with "class 1" engines selling for over 2k, thtas a lot o money for a bog standerd 1000cc mini
engine that can't be touched.
Ask this question though, if you could aford that elusive mod, part, tyre ect....that would move you a couple of places up the grid or knock a few
tenth's of your lap time would you fit it ?
Hats off to all the locost racers out there, and good luck in future events...like i said earlier iv'e seen some good racing in the series this
season all the way down the grid.
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dashin_dave
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| posted on 6/9/02 at 06:29 PM |
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ah well... it seems i'll be sticking to the road car for a while.... building a decent race car is a bit out of a student budget league, particularly
a bloody international student who has to pay totally screwed up fee amounts for courses others are getting for peanuts.... i'll just have to settle
for being able to terrorise peoples on track days... my main goal at the moment is to be able to show up my father in laws new porsche boxster S....
beat it with a car thats cost less than a 1/10th the amount of cash... also slightly disappointed that there is no racing at castle coombe, since its
only 15-20 minutes up the road, and i'd of liked to be able to at least go and have a look at locosts in action....
hmm.. oh well... maybe i'll race karts for a season or two... or just continue to flog all the locals around the makeshift quad track we've got out
the back of the inlaws..
anyhow, thanks for your input on the topic.
dave
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D Beddows
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| posted on 6/9/02 at 07:04 PM |
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Jon, it was just a feeling I got from a couple of messages I posted a bit ago - no one actualy said anything. Forget about it!!. Not sure I quite
understand the rest of your message tho? yeah, of course we would fit something that made us go quicker if it was legal, how else do you mange to blow
£8K on a Locost with a 1300 x-flow
John, OK; there are 2 types of Kent Camshaft x-flow GT cams, one kind you can buy for £60 or so from somewhere like Burtonpower (they're a regrind
and are absolute rubbish to be honest) For roughly another £100 you get Kent to grind you one from a blank - much much better but you still have to
check it carefully before you stick it in your engine as they have been known to be a bit out as well sometimes. If you can find an unused original
Ford cam (and it is still possible if you know where to look) you're onto a winner. Don't ask me why they work better but they do.
XR2 followers - that's cheating mate! I can't remember the exact figures off the top of my head but they are a higher lift ratio than the
standard MK2 Escort type - slightly different shape too and so are dead easy to spot.
Dave
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Rick
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| posted on 7/9/02 at 01:25 PM |
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Some good comments coming from people that know what they are talking about.
Just what any forum needs.
My comments come from 5yrs racing Karts, not actualy Locost racing but the philosophy is the same in any form of competition .
If it can be done legaly, (only just most of the time) then no mater how much it costs someone will do it. If you want to compete then you have to do
it too.
I was spending £600 a meeting racing 100cc Karts to win, in the stricktest, no tuning formula.
Engine rebiuld every meeting £200
Tyres £110 every meeting (wets every 4 meetings as well)
Entry fee £50
Friday practice £100 including fuel, chain & sprockets.
traveling expences £50
Food and drink for 5 all weekend £100 Allowing for a few beers of course.
There would always be something else that I never accounted for.
Some of the above will not apply to Locost racing. But others, like entry fees will be dearer.
I think that some of you will agree though, that once racing is in the blood it is very hard to get out.
I can't wait until the start of the season and my car is not even ready yet!
Rick
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johnston
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| posted on 7/9/02 at 03:11 PM |
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over here we have a series for mk1 mk2 fiestas 1l or 1.1 ford vv carbs only no mods everythin has to b standered design
BUT
not sayin the 750 is like this and it doesnt seem to be but standered spec depends on who you are rather than wot parts your using
certain people are runnin transit vv carbs instead of fiesta ones
hepolite pistons are the norm
in the 3 or 4 years its been running ive never heard about an engine being checked
standerd exhausts are supposed to be used and people have faild scruitinering for makin mods but yet i watched a guy win a race with a straight
pipe
i think my point is when it comes down to a "standerd spec " series its only as standered as the orginsers let it be
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theconrodkid
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| posted on 7/9/02 at 04:04 PM |
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I built a few MG midgets for racing,one guy did all the winning,standard engines,suposed to be but he was so far in front it was embarrising,we built
an all out race engine,alloy rods,full race cam,full race longman head,took all the ballast out,added a bit of nitro and still got left for dead,why
didnt his engine get checked?he knew all the powers that be,as the others have said ,its not what you know,its who yopu know
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