Johneturbo
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| posted on 31/5/11 at 01:49 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by craig1410
quote:
Originally posted by Johneturbo
LOL "lucked into the 2008 WDC" if Alonso hadn't thrown his toys out the pram Lewis would had also won it in his first F1 season
beating the champion at the time Alonson in the same car!!
Isn't buttons gf just a model?
The way I see 2007 - even with Ron Dennis and most of the team behind their golden boy, he still ended up with the same number of points as Alonso.
Hamilton is a decent driver but it's questionable in my view, if he would have got to where he is today if he had come through the hard way like
most drivers on the grid. He went the X-Factor route and was groomed for McLaren.
Button's girlfriend may be a model but she is also a pretty decent athlete and according to those who spend time in the company of Jenson and
her, she is way more than just a pretty face. On the other hand I can still remember Martin Brundle's attempt to interview Nicole S on a grid
walk and all she did was giggle and talk nonsense. Martin just smiled and shook his head.
quote:
Originally posted by Johneturbo
James Allen is just a TV pundit, he's not the oracle! Lewis managed to overtake MS So JB's tactic to win the tittle is hope everyone
infront crashes!
i also don't think Vettel would have jumped out the way he wanted to win Monoco and as he's got so many more points he could afford a DNF
Alonso can't
I, and many others, see JA as much more than "just a TV pundit" as he has been immersed in F1 up close for many years and has many good
sources behind the scenes. You and I can only wish we had access to F1 in the way that he has. Here is an excellent article from his website. Note
that this is analysis based on facts and opinions from a variety of sources.
http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2011/05/a-deep-dive-into-the-race-strategies-from-monaco-how-the-race-was-won/
Hamilton may have done some legitimate overtakes amongst his various illegal ones but remember he was also overtaken by MSC when he was presumably
napping. Jenson would probably have won the race if it were not for the safety car coming out at just the wrong time for him.
Vettel may have tried to fight Alonso to the point of crashing but I think in the circumstance he would have been prepared to settle for 2nd because
the people immediately behind him in the WDC would still be behind him. Vettel is savvy enough to pick his battles I think and is able to keep his ego
in check in such a situation.
The same James Allen that asked the Renault boss how Petrov was doing, and was told that he was on his way to the medical center then asked if petrov
was out the car.. oh dear!
Ron Dennis and the Team didn't drive the car for lewis in 2007 mclaren are one of the only teams to let both drivers race in the same equal
equipment, but if you want to think that it wasn't lewis's drving that beat Alonso ho hum
What hard way are you talking about Lewis won what ever championship he entered, just like most other drivers. he didn't have a rich dad or a ex
F1 dad like some have. he won GP2 Remember you are comparing Alonso 2x world champion against a roookie in 2007 in the same car!
Button would only have won Monaco because they messed up Vettals pitstop thats the only reason he nearly won
[Edited on 31/5/11 by Johneturbo]
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craig1410
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| posted on 31/5/11 at 02:05 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Johneturbo
The same James Allen that asked the Renault boss how Petrov was doing, and was told that he was on his way to the medical center then asked if petrov
was out the car.. oh dear!
Ron Dennis and the Team didn't drive the car for lewis in 2007 mclaren are one of the only teams to let both drivers race in the same equal
equipment, but if you want to think that it wasn't lewis's drving that beat Alonso ho hum
I hadn't heard about this 'monumental foul-up' by James Allen, I'm sure he will have his pit-pass torn up for this one...
For the record, I didn't like him much as a commentator but having experienced Legard, JA didn't seem so bad all of a sudden, and his
website is really very good, as is his twitter feed.
Re: McLaren, you've obviously never heard David Coulthard talk about the favouritism towards Mika which he saw in his time there. When Ron was
talking about "Our" strategy and "Their" strategy only to realise that "they" was actually DC! Whitmarsh is a
different story I think but it could be his undoing if results don't come soon. It was Hamilton's petulant behaviour which caused the rift
to develop in 2007 when he refused to follow the team's pre-agreed qualifying sequence.
Anyway, if ever you needed proof that the car is at least 50% (probably more) of the story then you only need to look at this year and 2009. No
disrespect intended to Vettel & Webber but almost any F1 driver could drive the Red Bull and get on the podium. (eg. Alonso, Hamilton, Rosberg,
Kobayashi, Di Resta, Button etc etc.). I'm not saying that McLaren sabotaged Alonso's car but it wouldn't be difficult to "not
find" those essential few tenths which are so hard to find even under optimal circumstances. Have you ever worked in a job where your heart was
no longer in it and you were just waiting for the day you could leave? If so then you will know that nobody can be 100% effective in such
circumstances.
Speaking of jobs, I'd better get back to mine. Thanks for the blether, it's been emotional... 
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Johneturbo
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| posted on 31/5/11 at 02:18 PM |
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I have to say it is funny when DC talks about mclaren you can tell he's still bitter for being "let go" sadly for DC he was never
champion material he was always so clumsy at overtakes. so i can see why they favoured Mika if they did, again i think DC is a little bitter!
That qually incident wasn't that to favour Alonso, he will never be able to race in a team with a competitive team mate maybe thats why MSC is
struggling!
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Irony
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| posted on 31/5/11 at 02:32 PM |
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I think that the somewhat aggressive driving style of LH is a bit of fresh air throughout Formula 1. A least he adds some excitement to the sport.
His attitude off track and on track are the same. I think F1 would be much more entertaining if more drivers had his style of driving.
I thought some of his overtake attempts were admittedly very risky but at least he tried. The majority of the other drivers at Monaco merely try to
make it to end end of the race and hope they get somewhere. Personally 'waiting for others to have a accident' is pretty unforgivable in
my opinion. It a race, not a traffic jam with some stop offs at a service station.
Admittedly some of his after race comments were in-appropiate.
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scootz
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| posted on 31/5/11 at 02:36 PM |
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Surely by now everyone knows that Ron was forever using DC as a strategy-pawn to assist Mika (and then Kimi).
To be fair to DC, he was a very good driver - you don't win 13 GP's and rack up the number of championship points that he did as a
'Number 2 Driver' unless you can cut the mustard. I reckon he was a shoe-in for the WDC in 1997 had he stayed at Williams.
The only criticism I'll make of him is for staying at Mclaren when it became obvious that he was not allowed to compete on a level footing with
his team-mate.
And let's not forget the development work he did for Red-Bull. They undoubtedly benefitted from his input.
It's Evolution Baby!
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craig1410
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| posted on 31/5/11 at 02:38 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Johneturbo
I have to say it is funny when DC talks about mclaren you can tell he's still bitter for being "let go" sadly for DC he was never
champion material he was always so clumsy at overtakes. so i can see why they favoured Mika if they did, again i think DC is a little bitter!
That qually incident wasn't that to favour Alonso, he will never be able to race in a team with a competitive team mate maybe thats why MSC is
struggling!
Okay, one more response...
DC was too much of a gentleman (allowed Mika to pass after a gentleman's agreement in Melbourne '98) and by the time he grew some balls
such that he could speak up for himself he had lost his edge. I thing DC deserved a WDC just as much as JB, perhaps more. The difference was that DC
had Mika(and Ron) against him whereas JB only had to beat Rubens. Both had dominant cars at the time.
On the Alonso/Hamilton incident, it is summed up well in this article:
http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/motor-racing/hamilton-vs-alonso-a-fastpaced-tale-of-jealousy-and-intense-sporting-rivalry-460442.html
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scootz
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| posted on 31/5/11 at 02:45 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Irony
I think that the somewhat aggressive driving style of LH is a bit of fresh air throughout Formula 1. A least he adds some excitement to the sport.
His attitude off track and on track are the same. I think F1 would be much more entertaining if more drivers had his style of driving.
I thought some of his overtake attempts were admittedly very risky but at least he tried. The majority of the other drivers at Monaco merely try to
make it to end end of the race and hope they get somewhere. Personally 'waiting for others to have a accident' is pretty unforgivable in
my opinion. It a race, not a traffic jam with some stop offs at a service station.
I don't mind anyone having a go, but there are ways-and-means and you also have to take into account the sheer futility of his
'attempts'. They were NEVER going to come off, so why ruin another drivers race just because you're in the huff with where you are
on the race track. The other drivers who's races he ruined on Sunday also have team-mates, sponsors and fans. I'm sure none of them are
all that happy about LH's 'aggression'!
I seriously think that he needs to be put on the naughty-step and told to wind his neck in. His conduct before, during, and after the Monaco race was
embarrassing!
And FWIW, I also like a 'character' and a bit of 'attitude' in F1, but LH is a weedy little mummy's-boy type, so it
doesn't work for him!
It's Evolution Baby!
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Johneturbo
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| posted on 31/5/11 at 02:48 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by craig1410
quote:
Originally posted by Johneturbo
I have to say it is funny when DC talks about mclaren you can tell he's still bitter for being "let go" sadly for DC he was never
champion material he was always so clumsy at overtakes. so i can see why they favoured Mika if they did, again i think DC is a little bitter!
That qually incident wasn't that to favour Alonso, he will never be able to race in a team with a competitive team mate maybe thats why MSC is
struggling!
Okay, one more response...
DC was too much of a gentleman (allowed Mika to pass after a gentleman's agreement in Melbourne '98) and by the time he grew some balls
such that he could speak up for himself he had lost his edge. I thing DC deserved a WDC just as much as JB, perhaps more. The difference was that DC
had Mika(and Ron) against him whereas JB only had to beat Rubens. Both had dominant cars at the time.
On the Alonso/Hamilton incident, it is summed up well in this article:
http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/motor-racing/hamilton-vs-alonso-a-fastpaced-tale-of-jealousy-and-intense-sporting-rivalry-460442.html
See thats the difference with say DC and Lewis, he didn't want to just be a #2 even though it was in his first year
DC knew he wasn't as fast as Mika so settled for being a #2 and staying with a team, and maybe he would luck-out and win the tittle!
I can't say i read any papers, as how do you know what is true/false i just go with what i think and see at the time and make my own mind up!
rather than going by what someone else thinks and has said! you do seem to quote a lot of what other people say or think
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Johneturbo
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| posted on 31/5/11 at 02:58 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by scootz
Surely by now everyone knows that Ron was forever using DC as a strategy-pawn to assist Mika (and then Kimi).
To be fair to DC, he was a very good driver - you don't win 13 GP's and rack up the number of championship points that he did as a
'Number 2 Driver' unless you can cut the mustard. I reckon he was a shoe-in for the WDC in 1997 had he stayed at Williams.
The only criticism I'll make of him is for staying at Mclaren when it became obvious that he was not allowed to compete on a level footing with
his team-mate.
And let's not forget the development work he did for Red-Bull. They undoubtedly benefitted from his input.
The only reason DC racked up so many points was because he was in the two best teams at the time, that were winning championships.. like my compadre
says with the 2009 redbull you could put anyone in that car and they would rack up podium/points thats what DC did. sadly for him he had faster
better team mates
Lewis is a breath of fresh air for being a fighter, he reminds me a little of Nigel Mansell always wanted to win and not just settle for second and
drive and hope the cars infront crash or break down
[Edited on 31/5/11 by Johneturbo]
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Johneturbo
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| posted on 31/5/11 at 03:10 PM |
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Craig, just a quote from that linked article.. that word again petulant
"He made Alonso look like the rookie in Canada, where the Spaniard fell off the road four times trying to keep up, and he so rattled him while
winning in America a week later that a petulant Alonso sped down the main straight on one lap so close to the pit wall that his team, which refused to
tell Hamilton to move over, was sprayed with grit"
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craig1410
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| posted on 31/5/11 at 03:11 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Johneturbo
See thats the difference with say DC and Lewis, he didn't want to just be a #2 even though it was in his first year
DC knew he wasn't as fast as Mika so settled for being a #2 and staying with a team, and maybe he would luck-out and win the tittle!
I can't say i read any papers, as how do you know what is true/false i just go with what i think and see at the time and make my own mind up!
rather than going by what someone else thinks and has said! you do seem to quote a lot of what other people say or think
DC was often faster than Mika actually but ended up in 2nd place because of team orders. If you read a bit more and presumed a bit less then you would
know this.
As for me quoting a lot, I'm afraid this is because unfortunately I can't go to every grand prix and be at every press conference and
interview personally so I've got to go by what those who were at these occasions noted down in their notebooks and recorded on camera and
dictaphone. People like James Allen for example or other journo's who actually spoke to the drivers and teams. Anyone can "make up their
own mind" about stuff but I think it is better for it to be based at least loosely on facts.
By the way in your last post you referred to the dominant 2009 Red Bull but I presume you meant the Brawn. Here's the quote for you...
quote:
Originally posted by Johneturbo
like my compadre says with the 2009 redbull you could put anyone in that car and they would rack up podium/points thats what DC did.
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Johneturbo
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| posted on 31/5/11 at 03:19 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by craig1410
quote:
Originally posted by Johneturbo
See thats the difference with say DC and Lewis, he didn't want to just be a #2 even though it was in his first year
DC knew he wasn't as fast as Mika so settled for being a #2 and staying with a team, and maybe he would luck-out and win the tittle!
I can't say i read any papers, as how do you know what is true/false i just go with what i think and see at the time and make my own mind up!
rather than going by what someone else thinks and has said! you do seem to quote a lot of what other people say or think
DC was often faster than Mika actually but ended up in 2nd place because of team orders. If you read a bit more and presumed a bit less then you would
know this.
As for me quoting a lot, I'm afraid this is because unfortunately I can't go to every grand prix and be at every press conference and
interview personally so I've got to go by what those who were at these occasions noted down in their notebooks and recorded on camera and
dictaphone. People like James Allen for example or other journo's who actually spoke to the drivers and teams. Anyone can "make up their
own mind" about stuff but I think it is better for it to be based at least loosely on facts.
By the way in your last post you referred to the dominant 2009 Red Bull but I presume you meant the Brawn. Here's the quote for you...
quote:
Originally posted by Johneturbo
like my compadre says with the 2009 redbull you could put anyone in that car and they would rack up podium/points thats what DC did.
opps i meant this year and 2009 my bad, your to quick for me craig and you nealrly believed what i wrote!!
Have to say i loved reading that article, really does show how bad Alonso was rattle by Lewis's speed
[Edited on 31/5/11 by Johneturbo]
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craig1410
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| posted on 31/5/11 at 03:23 PM |
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^^^ If you say so... 
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Johneturbo
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| posted on 31/5/11 at 03:26 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by craig1410
^^^ If you say so...
No i didn't say so, i just read that artcle and quoted it so it must be right
i'm going by what goes on track, you seem to go by what you "think" goes on behind the scenes with team orders and so on yada
yada
I also love this quote
"According to James Allen, Button couldn't attack Alonso due to the turbulent air from Alonso's car"
James Allen is also a aero man too
[Edited on 31/5/11 by Johneturbo]
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Mr G
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| posted on 31/5/11 at 03:30 PM |
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Well I never, and there was me thinking Nicole Scherzinger was Hamiltons mum.......
G
Normal is getting dressed in clothes that you buy for work and driving through traffic in a
car that you are still paying for - in order to get to the job you need to pay for the clothes
and the car, and the house you leave vacant all day so you can afford to live in it.
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craig1410
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| posted on 31/5/11 at 03:36 PM |
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He certainly needs his mum then he wouldn't have to go crying to the cameras...
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Johneturbo
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| posted on 31/5/11 at 03:51 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by craig1410
He certainly needs his mum then he wouldn't have to go crying to the cameras...
touche
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