benjo
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| posted on 11/4/16 at 07:27 AM |
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Never overlook what you think is working
I posted last week about having issues with the wiring on my build . ( fury k series 1.6 16v mems 1.9 / 5as )
like i said the previous owner had made a right mess of the loom removing it with just some snips leaving me with a big headache . well i used what i
had and fixed it all up and got the engine turning over but not firing . so i checked everything . spark fuel timing etc . all right
so why no starty starty ????
so after redoing the wiring again to see if i had made a mistake it did the same .
so i decided ok maybe emo is bust so i bought a rover 400 that was running and decided i would strip out the old harness and start with components i
know work rather then guessing t an emo fault .
so i stripped it out and remade a new loom and kaboom . no starty starty ... hmmmmmmm
so again checks spark and fuel and timing all ok . timing gun showing it correct and the cam belt is right and the plugs are wet .
after trying again and again i noticed the starter wasn't turning very fast so i checks and the bendix was hitting the fly wheel , looks like
the starter ring had never been shifted from the other side of fly wheel from when it was originally a transverse setup . the pinion on the starter is
only just engaging and the bendix is actually rubbing the fly wheel causing friction and slowing turn over . this explains to me why the starter was
packed with grease and like wise the face back face of the fly wheel which i found strange on strip down and typically cleaned it all off. as i could
do too much with the starter other then replace i just greased it all up . and tried much better turning over but still no starty starty .
so again scratching my head . i must be missing some thing . pulls the distributer off and the center pin on the rotor arm is badly pitted
chucks on a new one and started first turn .. it had been sparking but obviously not quite enough
3 days wasted and bought a different car for loom all for a rotor arm . i have not checked the original harness i made yet but i suspect it would have
worked as i had all the required criteria for an engine to run . but i will be checking just to see. then i will have a spare harness ecu and 5as. it
seems there are lots of threads all over the net with people having issues wiring these. party to do with the colours and diagrams all over being
incorrect . even caterhams diagrams were cocked up .
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Norfolkluegojnr
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| posted on 11/4/16 at 07:38 AM |
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I once spent 10 minutes setting the points on a crossflow, then 5 hours trying to figure out what i'd broken as it wouldnt fire. i was getting a
spark but a very weak one.
apparently distributors don't work well with the rotor arm in your pocket. 
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benjo
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 posted on 11/4/16 at 08:09 AM |
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glad am not the only one to have mis read the signs . any way i am glad its gone this way as i have a better loom now as the previous guy cut the
engine loom connector off . now i have a connector so removing the loom is a piece of cake and looks neater . the amount of half jobs and poor quality
things i have had to correct is crazy . but from being a pile of bits to a running fully built up chassis in 7 weeks is not bad going . thats
including it being at the powder coaters for a week and being at work too
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britishtrident
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| posted on 11/4/16 at 12:18 PM |
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Everyone us has done it missed something simple and wasted time and money. I will ressist telling you about the first time I tried to track down an
ABS fault on a BMW with active wheel bearings.
The rotor arms on that style of Rover ignition was well a known problem, the carbon suppressor ressitor that is built into the rotor arm fails and the
ht voltage goes off the top end of the scale and finds an easier route to ground.
There was a guy on one of the Rover 820 forums nearly 20 years back who instead of checking the simple stuff first changed the cylinder head twice !
the ECU again twice, and MAP and the crank sensor (only once).
This is the kind of fault a cheap Oscilloscope will show up when looking at the ignition primary or secondary voltages, the electronics even on home
builds on cars is getting so complex and changing so rapidly that having a scope is now almost essential.
[I] “ What use our work, Bennet, if we cannot care for those we love? .”
― From BBC TV/Amazon's Ripper Street.
[/I]
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Toprivetguns
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| posted on 11/4/16 at 03:55 PM |
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I spent 6 months trying to track down a fault with my GTE and why she wouldn't start. Reluctantly I called my dad who spent 10 minutes under the
bonnet and commented "that relay you said you changed, well you didn't". Moments later the new relay was fitted and up she fired
!
It happens to the best of us.
Only drive as fast as your angel can fly... !
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The Black Flash
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| posted on 11/4/16 at 08:44 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by britishtrident
Everyone us has done it missed something simple and wasted time and money.
Aint that the truth! You're in good company OP
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jollygreengiant
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| posted on 12/4/16 at 09:14 AM |
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Took a Sierra (pinto engine, it broke down outside this garage) into a garage as a non runner. He condemned the distributor despite my suggestions of
just changing the rotor (me thinking the resistor in it had blown). It started I paid him and left (it was a taxi). 3 months later he found me at the
rank, confirmed to me that "it was the rotor arm resistor and he didn't know they had one". He gave me my money back. 
Another Garage owner didn't have time to look at his own tranit that he used for motocross, so he got the local ford dealers to look at it as
non-starter.
contact 1 : It's the battery. ----- Ok fit a new one.
3 hours later
contact 2 : It's the starter motor. ------- Ok fit a new one.
2 days later
contact 3 : It's the cambelt. --------- Ok, fit new one
another 2 days later
contact 4 : it's the engine, it's seized. --------------- RANT. (he'd missed his motocross event).
Beware of the Goldfish in the tulip mines. The ONLY defence against them is smoking peanut butter sandwiches.
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britishtrident
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| posted on 12/4/16 at 02:18 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by jollygreengiant
Took a Sierra (pinto engine, it broke down outside this garage) into a garage as a non runner. He condemned the distributor despite my suggestions of
just changing the rotor (me thinking the resistor in it had blown). It started I paid him and left (it was a taxi). 3 months later he found me at the
rank, confirmed to me that "it was the rotor arm resistor and he didn't know they had one". He gave me my money back.
Another Garage owner didn't have time to look at his own tranit that he used for motocross, so he got the local ford dealers to look at it as
non-starter.
contact 1 : It's the battery. ----- Ok fit a new one.
3 hours later
contact 2 : It's the starter motor. ------- Ok fit a new one.
2 days later
contact 3 : It's the cambelt. --------- Ok, fit new one
another 2 days later
contact 4 : it's the engine, it's seized. --------------- RANT. (he'd missed his motocross event).
There is an excellent case study on the scannerdanner youtube channel of a not start problem on a BMW Mini --- wonderful stuff
link https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4YWCKzpbgb0
[I] “ What use our work, Bennet, if we cannot care for those we love? .”
― From BBC TV/Amazon's Ripper Street.
[/I]
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AntonUK
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| posted on 12/4/16 at 07:51 PM |
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i once spent the day rebuilding an SU carb. Then 3 days trying to work out why the car didnt start.
Got a new one, fitted it and it started... head scratching commenced. Turned out put the main piston spring in on the wrong side holding the piston
and jet up high.
Build Photos Here
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rusty nuts
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| posted on 12/4/16 at 08:34 PM |
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Many years ago a customer brought his Triumph 1300 in for a new starter, the foreman gave the job to a young apprentice who fitted the starter he was
given, the engine span over nicely but wouldn't fire up . Plugs were checked, points replaced , spark and fuel present but still wouldn't
fire up . The car was bump started no problem , the foreman by this time was blaming the lad who had done the job and wouldn't listen to me when
I told him it was the wrong starter . After several hours the car still would not start on the starter , I told the apprentice to take the distributor
cap off while I cranked the engine and watch the rotor arm , in those days the rotor had an arrow for direction of rotation , sure enough the engine
was turning over backwards , the starter we had in stock was for an Austin/ Morris 1300 not a Triumph which had the ring gear on the crank pulley not
the flywheel
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