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Can of Worms.....R1 or Redtop
peteday_uk@btinternet.com - 10/4/10 at 01:50 PM

Hello All...

I was intending to but a Yamaha R1 enginge into my Indy R (build for the engine). However talking to some work collegues they think that I might be better off with a Vauxhall RedTop. Cheaper, no need to worry about a reverse gear and would give me a more driveable car. I would also be a little worried about how to weld the engine mounts to the chassis.

I know there have been alot of posts about BEC v CEC but would never the less still value your thoughts.

Thanks in advance.

Pete.

speedyxjs - 10/4/10 at 01:51 PM

CEC

coozer - 10/4/10 at 01:54 PM

Redtop for sure, like you say, very drivable and tons of torque and bhp.

blakep82 - 10/4/10 at 01:55 PM

i'd have to go with red top too. or ecotec, its the same block etc as the red top, but cheaper, newer, but slightly down on standard power

as you say, its got reverse, its an engine designed for a car, more reliable and solid i'd say.
i think a bike engine would wear pretty thin on your nerves on a long motorway drive

JoelP - 10/4/10 at 01:57 PM

what you planning on using the car for pete?

daviep - 10/4/10 at 02:03 PM

quote:
Originally posted by blakep82
i think a bike engine would wear pretty thin on your nerves on a long motorway drive


If you want to drive on motorways you'd be better with a diesel Mondeo.

Only you can decide what you are going to do with the car and this will dictate your engine choice.

I don't know about anybody else but in general I plan most journeys to avoid motorway driving.

Regards
Davie

StrikerChris - 10/4/10 at 02:23 PM

saw a 200sx for £500 the other day.i might be biased but it 200 horses and torques straight out the tin with no carb or megasquirt rolling road charges!although bec's do sound well when they're screaming....

zilspeed - 10/4/10 at 02:23 PM

quote:
]

If you want to drive on motorways you'd be better with a diesel Mondeo.



Never was a truer word spoken.

Any of the two engines will give you ballistic performance.

It boils down to.

A) Do you want an easy reverse gear.
B) Do you want an F1 style sequential gearshift.

You can have either. You can't have both, unless you give MNR around £500 quid for one of their reverse boxes. That's not too bad in the grand scheme of things.

I know my own answer to that one, so won't add to the argument. I would be very happy with either engine.

peteday_uk@btinternet.com - 10/4/10 at 02:30 PM

I like the idea of fast road with the occasional track day(never done a track day before though).

Pete.

wilkingj - 10/4/10 at 02:39 PM

quote:
Originally posted by zilspeed

Never was a truer word spoken.

Any of the two engines will give you ballistic performance.

It boils down to.

A) Do you want an easy reverse gear.
B) Do you want an F1 style sequential gearshift.

You can have either. You can't have both, unless you give MNR around £500 quid for one of their reverse boxes. That's not too bad in the grand scheme of things.


I disagree.... the bloke a few doors up from me had a 6 speed sequential gearbox with reverse in the Cateringvan that sat on his drive. I believe the gearbox was about £6k on its own! (It also had a 2.3 Duratec all wired down and sealed with MSA lead seals). Evil bit of kit it was! Looked good and sounded the bollox!

Its all down to how deep your pockets are.

Personally I agree with the rest, a Red Top will be plenty fast enough, and a lot less stressful on the eardrums.

Brommers - 10/4/10 at 02:52 PM

quote:
Originally posted by peteday_uk@btinternet.com
Hello All...

I was intending to but a Yamaha R1 enginge into my Indy R (build for the engine). However talking to some work collegues they think that I might be better off with a Vauxhall RedTop. Cheaper, no need to worry about a reverse gear and would give me a more driveable car. I would also be a little worried about how to weld the engine mounts to the chassis.

I know there have been alot of posts about BEC v CEC but would never the less still value your thoughts.

Thanks in advance.

Pete.


Have you ever driven a BEC se7en and a CEC se7en? If you haven't, I'd recommend doing so before making a decision. Some people will prefer a BEC (like me), some prefer a CEC. It's a purely personal choice and there is no *right* answer. It's what you prefer that counts, so asking other people's opinions is IMHO a bit pointless - rather like asking someone else to decide who you should marry...

Have a go in both, go with whichever you prefer. Actually, the same advice holds true for deciding which girl to marry too...

maximill666 - 10/4/10 at 02:54 PM

Do you have the chassis already? If so then wont it have been designed around a bike engine install & the tunnel not wide enough for a bellhousing/gearbox etc?

peteday_uk@btinternet.com - 10/4/10 at 03:00 PM

Fair....and relevant point.

Never driven either so have no idea what would be better. Went out in one of MK's think it was a ZX12R. Loved that, but never driven one. Not sure how many people would be willing to let someone else drive their pride and joy. So opinions are the only way of trying to work it out. Then take the plunge and buy the engine. I'm sure i'll love it regardless.....

Pete

peteday_uk@btinternet.com - 10/4/10 at 03:02 PM

quote:
Originally posted by maximill666
Do you have the chassis already? If so then wont it have been designed around a bike engine install & the tunnel not wide enough for a bellhousing/gearbox etc?


Yes but I thought that the only part of the Indy that was different was the engine mounts? If that's not the case then it is going to be the R1 and that's that.

Pete.

blakep82 - 10/4/10 at 03:12 PM

i can only see the point in a paddle shift if the paddles follow the wheel round proper F1 style, but they don't.

blakep82 - 10/4/10 at 03:16 PM

quote:
Originally posted by wilkingj
I disagree.... the bloke a few doors up from me had a 6 speed sequential gearbox with reverse in the Cateringvan that sat on his drive.


yessss, quaife make them

zilspeed - 10/4/10 at 03:21 PM

quote:
Originally posted by wilkingj
quote:
Originally posted by zilspeed

Never was a truer word spoken.

Any of the two engines will give you ballistic performance.

It boils down to.

A) Do you want an easy reverse gear.
B) Do you want an F1 style sequential gearshift.

You can have either. You can't have both, unless you give MNR around £500 quid for one of their reverse boxes. That's not too bad in the grand scheme of things.


I disagree.... the bloke a few doors up from me had a 6 speed sequential gearbox with reverse in the Cateringvan that sat on his drive. I believe the gearbox was about £6k on its own! (It also had a 2.3 Duratec all wired down and sealed with MSA lead seals). Evil bit of kit it was! Looked good and sounded the bollox!

Its all down to how deep your pockets are.

Personally I agree with the rest, a Red Top will be plenty fast enough, and a lot less stressful on the eardrums.


Yeah, you've got me there. Car engines and sequential boxes can be in the same place at the same time. I've seen a few too.
I thought that for the purposes of this forum, it wouldn't be something we were considering though.

From my own point of view, I've had a few car engined seven type cars and absolutely know what to expect.

Haven't yet driven a bike engined car, but have had a passenger ride with Drew Murray and subsequently refused a passenger ride with Jonathan Rarity because of the first ride !
Suffice to say that once I had experienced being slightly airborne whilst going sideways at around 9,500rpm in a 'busa engined Fury, I wasn't having a car engine.

For me, none of these cars are truly about cruising. It's all about making sure you're on a race track or a suitable twisty road and kicking its nuts in.
I have an MPV for crusing. Pulls lovely from 1200rpm in top

zilspeed - 10/4/10 at 03:22 PM

quote:
Originally posted by blakep82
i can only see the point in a paddle shift if the paddles follow the wheel round proper F1 style, but they don't.


There's no problem in doing that if you have an electric or air shifter.

daviep - 10/4/10 at 03:28 PM

quote:
Originally posted by wilkingj
quote:
Originally posted by zilspeed

Never was a truer word spoken.

Any of the two engines will give you ballistic performance.

It boils down to.

A) Do you want an easy reverse gear.
B) Do you want an F1 style sequential gearshift.

You can have either. You can't have both, unless you give MNR around £500 quid for one of their reverse boxes. That's not too bad in the grand scheme of things.


I disagree.... the bloke a few doors up from me had a 6 speed sequential gearbox with reverse in the Cateringvan that sat on his drive. I believe the gearbox was about £6k on its own! (It also had a 2.3 Duratec all wired down and sealed with MSA lead seals). Evil bit of kit it was! Looked good and sounded the bollox!

Its all down to how deep your pockets are.

Personally I agree with the rest, a Red Top will be plenty fast enough, and a lot less stressful on the eardrums.


The forum is called LOCOSTBUILDERS, kind of implies that your not intending to spend £40K+

dlatch - 10/4/10 at 03:50 PM

i think both would mean u end up with a great fast car and both have tuning potential.

the redtop will be more user friendly and its all going to come down to personal preference if you really are not that sure i would get your self a ride/drive of both then you can decide

ReMan - 10/4/10 at 05:39 PM

quote:
Originally posted by peteday_uk@btinternet.com
Fair....and relevant point.

Never driven either so have no idea what would be better. Went out in one of MK's think it was a ZX12R. Loved that, but never driven one. Not sure how many people would be willing to let someone else drive their pride and joy. So opinions are the only way of trying to work it out. Then take the plunge and buy the engine. I'm sure i'll love it regardless.....

Pete

I'm only round the corner if you need reminding why you chose the R1 option.
Mines 30hp down on an R1 but it still does it for me 4 years on and even 2 up.
Bike engines suit the 7 concept to a tee.
Ignore the colleagues unless they have first hand experience they are spouting theory

franky - 10/4/10 at 06:07 PM

Having driven both my *own* choice was a CEC, a damn site cheaper as no reverse box/2 prop shafts/paddle shifts/powercommanders and i'm a life long bike rider. If you get a lump with enough power as standard you can concentrate on the handling.

jacko - 10/4/10 at 08:22 PM

If it's the indy R with the in board suspension i thought it was designed for bike engines only
I know the indy out board suspension can take car or bike engines

peteday_uk@btinternet.com - 11/4/10 at 09:34 AM

I thought that MK had done an Indy R with a S2000 engine?( I know they had to modify the passanger footwell but thought that was more to do with the S2 engine). I think it might be just easier to stick with what the engine bay was built for........ R1.