Hellfire
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| posted on 27/1/09 at 08:31 PM |
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Trackdays and additional drivers.
There's one thing I can never understand with most trackday organisers which really boils my pi$$. Why is there almost always an additional cost
for extra drivers? Seems a bit daft to me. Other than the cost of an extra couple of plastic wristbands, where's the additional cost for the
organisers?
The number of cars is usually limited anyway, so surely more drivers means more fees from tuition, more fees from drinks and snacks and more interest
generated for future events.
What do others think?
Phil
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Humbug
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| posted on 29/1/09 at 07:21 AM |
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Insurance maybe? I personally don't think it's too bad if it's only a tenner or so, but when it's a more significant amount it
does smack a bit of profiteering, especialy with sessioned trackdays.
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ReMan
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| posted on 29/1/09 at 07:53 AM |
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Same for paseengers is'nt it.?
As said in a Seven you can only ever have one driver one passenger driving/ being driven at any one time
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blakep82
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| posted on 29/1/09 at 08:05 AM |
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insurance, and because they're running a business to make money
________________________
IVA manual link http://www.businesslink.gov.uk/bdotg/action/detail?type=RESOURCES&itemId=1081997083
don't write OT on a new thread title, you're creating the topic, everything you write is very much ON topic!
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Steve PH
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| posted on 29/1/09 at 08:30 AM |
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I'd better start by saying that I do organise trackdays with Trackaction-Online and we do charge for extra drivers!
The question of extra charges is something you need to look at in the context of the whole day. If the basic entry price is high or if it's a
sessioned day and the two drivers would be sharing the same session time then you could suggest it should be included.
However, if the basic rate for the day is cheap and the total numbers are being restricted to ensure that open pit does mean little or no queueing
then you have to consider that the TDO still has to raise enough income to pay for the day.
quote:
Originally posted by Hellfire
The number of cars is usually limited anyway, so surely more drivers means more fees from tuition, more fees from drinks and snacks and more interest
generated for future events.
You assume that everyone charges for tuition - we don't and income at the cafe etc it taken by the circuit, not the TDO. Extra interest in
future events is obviously good but the primary thing that gets drivers coming back is a lack of queueing and extra drivers can make that worse!
Make no mistake here, extra drivers do make a difference to how a day runs. An open pit event will always have more cars booked in than are allowed
on track; this works fine because you are obviously not going to spend the whole time on the circuit, in fact an average driver spends around half the
day in the paddock. A TDO has to work out the maximum number of cars he can book in for the day based on this average if he wants to avoid queueing.
If a car has a second driver is is inevitable that this car will spend more time on circuit, usually a lot more time, and so this needs to be
accounted for when looking at the total numbers.
Once the total number is set it all has to be paid for and it can really only happen in one of two ways, either you allow for everything by increasing
the basic entry price or you keep the base price lower and charge for any extras. Obviously those who are bringing an extra driver will prefer it if
it's included but then the solo drivers are paying for something that they are not going to use.
It's not about insurance and (in our case at least) it's not about profits. Seems to me that if your car does twice the mileage on a
trackday because you have an extra driver, you've had a lot more value out of the day than a solo driver ever will - whether or not you've
had to pay slightly more to be there.
Steve H
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Steve PH
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| posted on 29/1/09 at 08:33 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by chris mason
What trackday are you considering Phil?
Not sure if Phil is really considering it  but this is what started us off - CLICK
HERE
Steve H
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Dangle_kt
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| posted on 29/1/09 at 08:40 AM |
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I sat here yesterday re-reading this thread loads which was at the top of the list to check when the site came back properly.
Feel like I should comment, so:
BLARGHHHHHHHHHHHH!
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Andy D
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| posted on 29/1/09 at 08:52 AM |
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On a sessioned day, in my opinion, there should be no extra charge for second drivers. Open pit, I'd half expect to pay something, although some
seem to be taking the pee!
As there's usually two of us driving, we have to compare prices with a second driver added.
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Hellfire
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| posted on 29/1/09 at 12:18 PM |
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Yeah that's our dilemma too Andy. Until we get another car built, there are three of us though.  
Steve, how many vehicles is the trackday at Cadwell on 27th March limited to? I'm just after the info so I can make an informed decision.
Phil
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Steve PH
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| posted on 29/1/09 at 06:31 PM |
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We've set 60 as the limit for Cadwell.
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Hellfire
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| posted on 30/1/09 at 06:35 PM |
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Just for info, that's the same car limit that Circuit-Days have on their Cadwell Park track days in February & June. For £149 with
Circuit-Days (including upto four drivers and four passengers) it works out quite a bit cheaper for us.
There is always the risk on trackdays that there will be instances of queuing due to breakdowns, incidents etc, so I think we'll go with the
cheaper TD and take that risk. Come to think of it, I reckon we haven't done one trackday where we haven't had to queue at some point
throughout the day due to incidents.
Good luck with your trackday in March Steve.
Phil
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Steve PH
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| posted on 30/1/09 at 06:58 PM |
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Cheers Phil, I can see where you are coming from if you have that many drivers.
Queues are inevitable if there are red flags but you can tell if it's an over packed day if they simply never recover from just one or two
stoppages and some TDOs (I'm not having a go at Circuit Days here as Chris runs a pretty tight ship and we go to a lot of his events) seem to
lose count above 60 when punters turn up with cash in hand  .
Anyway, hope you have a good day and if you are at any others with CD this season and you see any Trackaction-Online stickers on cars come over and
say hello cos it will probably be us 
Cheers
Steve H
[Edited on 30/1/09 by Steve PH]
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omega 24 v6
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| posted on 30/1/09 at 06:59 PM |
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Last time I was at knockhill they were also charging for passengers FFS . I seem to remember it was priced per car plus per driver plus per passenger.
My mate got his Fiesta sprint/hillclimb car rear ended by a prick in a cheap wednesday evening auction market type car as he was overtaking on th
grass verge while coming round behind the pace car on the warm up lap.
Couple this with chavs with spliffs in the pits and you can work out what I think of open trackdays for yourselves.
If it looks wrong it probably is wrong.
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Steve PH
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| posted on 30/1/09 at 07:15 PM |
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That's nothing to do with open pit, it's to do with poor enforcement and the reputation that Knockhill seems to have aquired for anything
goes trackdays attracting the wrong kind of driver
*edited to add* Just re-read that and if it happened on the warmup laps I guess it's more down to the reputation than the enforcement on the
day!
[Edited on 30/1/09 by Steve PH]
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omega 24 v6
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| posted on 30/1/09 at 07:53 PM |
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quote:
it's to do with poor enforcement and the reputation that Knockhill seems to have aquired for anything goes trackdays attracting the wrong kind
of driver
Seems to be a battle field for Glasgow versus Edinburgh chav types. If what you hear/read is to be believed.
If it looks wrong it probably is wrong.
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Hellfire
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| posted on 30/1/09 at 08:03 PM |
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It's not called Knockhill for nothing.
Phil
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omega 24 v6
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| posted on 30/1/09 at 08:41 PM |
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If it looks wrong it probably is wrong.
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