robocog
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| posted on 31/3/10 at 06:20 PM |
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tired of looking at tyres
Bored at looking for rubber for my kit now and need to make a decision
looking at a set of 185 60 13"s
Seemingly they are no longer a popular size and most places had no choice of makes or models (and none had one in stock...so I will be putting a fifth
onto a spare wheel)
I have completely ruled out R888's and the Yoko's as they are just stupid prices when I have no intention of trackdays and a waste of
sticky rubber when just pottering into work on sunny days or mile crunching to get to a show/meet or social
The Semperitts I was running on the 14"'s had silly thin sidewalls meaning a soft ish ride, but with LOTS of tyre side to side movement
which I don't think I got along with
(I'm sure I have been labelled a rubber fetishist at most of the tyre places now as I seem obsessed that I don't end up with the same
sidewall flex and have insisted that I touch and prod the sidewalls on the tyres before parting with any money)
A couple of places were quite obliging and managed to cop a feel of some Nexen CP641's in a different size but same profile which seemed to have
fairly stiff sidewalls and the rubber on the tread seemed pretty soft like a pencil rubber (I left a finger nail mark in the tread when I prodded
it)
I also managed to get a prod of the Champiro GT's again the sidewalls seemed stiff enough, but the tread rubber was not as soft as the
Nexen's from what I can recall
Have compiled a list of what I can get hold of and am interested as to what others have used on your kit's and would recommend or ones to
avoid
Regards
Rob
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zilspeed
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| posted on 31/3/10 at 06:32 PM |
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How wide are the rims to which these 185/60s are being fitted ?
You mention side to side movement as something with which you have an issue, I would suggest that the rim width will have an influence on this.
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TigerB6 Paul
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| posted on 31/3/10 at 06:34 PM |
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Have you already got 13" wheels?? To be honest, for the use you're talking about then you'd be better off with 15's with
195/50R15 tyres which are common and hence dirt cheap / huge range
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Mal
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| posted on 31/3/10 at 06:37 PM |
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Yokahama A539 tyres in 185/60/13 are quite reasonable tyres and cost between £40 to £45 each.
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omega 24 v6
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| posted on 31/3/10 at 07:01 PM |
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quote:
Yokahama A539 tyres in 185/60/13 are quite reasonable tyres and cost between £40 to £45 each.
WHERE????????????
If it looks wrong it probably is wrong.
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robocog
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| posted on 31/3/10 at 07:17 PM |
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The 13 wheels I have are 6" rims
I had considered the Yoko 539's, but I can get the others much much cheaper than that
Also putting A539 into Google pulled up a site where quite few chaps had run them and hated them (in the wet) but were happy with them in the dry and
and another site where they are also described as being a bit "squirmy" in the dry (so assume they also have soft sidewalls?)
I could use my old 14" (5.5 wide) rims and possibly drop down a profile size to reduce the squirmy squishy cornering...but I want to use my
13"s now
Regards
Rob
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MakeEverything
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| posted on 31/3/10 at 07:23 PM |
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Surely its the tyre pressure that stops the sidewalls from flexing?? I thought that all sidewalls were of the same thickness to comply with Type
approval?
Kindest Regards,
Richard.
...You can make it foolProof, but youll never make it Idiot Proof!...
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Brommers
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| posted on 31/3/10 at 07:24 PM |
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I fitted a set of Barum Brilliantis (175/60/13 fronts and 185/60/13 rears) on my Striker in southern France, having managed to wear down a fresh set
of AO21Rs in 10 days', ahem, spirited driving around the Pyrennees on the se7ens list's Long Way to Le Mans tour in 2008.
They're not bad. They're just not very good. Hard as nails, and with all the grip of a block of very mature cheddar. I booted it
away from the lights on the way back in Rouen and just sat there with the rear wheels spinning. No smoke, no black 11s, just a total absence of
grip.
They're quite fun when rather than having slightly more power than grip you'd like to have a Biblical excess of power over grip (even if
the car's powered by a lawn-mower engine).
I tried killing them at a sprint day at Waterbeach airfield. Not a chance. Spent all day driving sideways and running down the timed 1/4 mile - no
discernible wear at the end of the day. After I swapped to AO21Rs, the quarter mile time went from 13.7 to 12.4 seconds.
And they weren't that cheap either. Not far off a set of 185/60/13 AO21Rs, although maybe that's just the prices charged by French
tyre-floggers.
Anyway, they're great if you're heavily into hard-wearing tyres and a lack of grip. Other than that, they're not that great.
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flak monkey
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| posted on 31/3/10 at 07:31 PM |
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The Falkens are brill tyres on my tintop (grippy and last ages even with 300lbft of torque), but they are extremely hard wearing so probably wont
offer much grip on a locost.
Sera
http://www.motosera.com
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robocog
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| posted on 31/3/10 at 07:52 PM |
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More Googling has turned this up, but cannot find anywhere else backing this up
"Falken ZE512 as a budget road legal track tyre, but they are really crap with very soft sidewalls and have developed a reputation for popping
off rims under duress :shock: Avoid."
I did however find a few others saying very thin sidewalls on them ...like my Semperitts then??
(I should put them back on and video the comedy amount of side to side movement they allow when run between 16-20 PSI!)
Regards
Rob
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zilspeed
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| posted on 31/3/10 at 07:53 PM |
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My belief is that our type of car really is sensitive to getting the tyres right if getting the car working well is a priority.
I've tried these combinations.
15" rims with 195/50s. Far too much kick through the steering and the car was unresponsive and dull. Car was unpleasant on less then smooth road
surfaces.
13" Rims with 205/60s, same as above only slightly less so.
13" rims with 185/60s. Much less unwelcome kick throught the steering and the suspension will work more accurately, you feel less of a passenger
and can place the car where you want it. Car can still be provoked, but is much more controllable.
I've also tried the above in what might be called normal road tyres with rubber as hard as nails and also the rather wonderfull Yokohama A-032R.
The sticky rubber and the lighter car just seemed to work so well together.
Should the current Sylva ever see the road again any time this centruy, it will be wearing Yokohamas in 185/60 at the very most.
Light cars and anything bigger than a 13" rim with the correct soft rubber is a lost opportunity.
We haven't even started on tyre pressures yet 
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MikeRJ
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| posted on 31/3/10 at 07:54 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by MakeEverything
Surely its the tyre pressure that stops the sidewalls from flexing?? I thought that all sidewalls were of the same thickness to comply with Type
approval?
Sidewall stiffness varies dramatically between different tyre brands and models.
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robocog
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| posted on 31/3/10 at 08:11 PM |
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Just to throw it in, at one place, where the fitters swore blind that whatever tyre I was replacing with would have the same amount of lateral flex in
the sidewalls no matter what I replaced it with ...as long as the profile and pressure was the same...I was just about to walk out after our fruitless
conversation when one chap who'd been waiting for service and obviously been listening said I may be better off trying some C rated tyres for a
stiffer side wall if I had run out of ideas
I guess they would be thicker sidewalled, but would also be rock hard compound which wouldn't work on a lightweight car :-(
Still looking for negative comments on the Nexxen's, despite the Falkens being ahead in the poll
Regards
Rob
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robocog
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| posted on 31/3/10 at 08:47 PM |
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I /may/ have just been offered a set of (used but still legal as far as I can make out) Avon ACB10's in the right size and at an affordable
price
Just not at all sure if they are right tyre for me?
Regards
Rob
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scootz
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| posted on 31/3/10 at 09:10 PM |
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ACB10's are no use whatsoever for what you have described.
They are super-sticky tyres that wear like soft-cheese and are hard-work unless you're on a mission...
It's Evolution Baby!
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robocog
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| posted on 31/3/10 at 09:27 PM |
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Yup, further reading seems to suggest fine on track, but not the thing to get caught out in the wet with and really need to be driven hard to get them
to work
I think I just need cheap and with less sidewall give than the semperits and will wear evenly and quite quickly
The internet is just chock full of reviews contradicting each other
I'm starting to wonder if tyre "batches" are completely different compounds or recipes each time they make them as some people are
saying tyre make and model x has soft sidewalls and others saying not, likewise for tyre wear, some are saying they wear quite fast and others that
they have lasted forever, despite the same brand/model being worn by what I would have thought were similar weighted cars and would assume being
inflated to similar pressures so don't get why so many conflicting reviews
The more I look into what I need and can actually get at an affordable price the less I know what I should do :-(
Regards
Rob
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dlatch
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| posted on 31/3/10 at 09:47 PM |
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www.blackcircles.com
have the yoko's for £46 each
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scootz
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| posted on 31/3/10 at 09:52 PM |
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What's your budget?
It's Evolution Baby!
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Brommers
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| posted on 31/3/10 at 09:54 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by robocog
Yup, further reading seems to suggest fine on track, but not the thing to get caught out in the wet with and really need to be driven hard to get them
to work
Yep, ACB10s are not good in the wet. I had a trip to the Leicester Royal Infirmary to prove it after one RGB race...
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robocog
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| posted on 1/4/10 at 10:18 AM |
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budget is flexible and based on value for money more than actual cost
From pricing them up locally - cheapest to most expensive
Can get the Nankangs for £24 a corner
Can get the Nexxen's for £25 a corner, which is as cheap as a cheap thing and can afford to replace them every year at that sort of price...but
I suspect they will last a lot longer than the miles I will put in and don't know anyone else running them on a light car.
Can get the Falkens for £35 a corner, but having read they have floppy sidewalls and other things I have gleamed about them maybe not a contender
Can get the Champiro GT's for £38 a corner
Barum Brilliants were £52.35 a corner, but I think I should stay away from them based on others opinions and would rather not have a tyre that will
outlast the car
A539's - didn't put them on the list due to what I had read, maybe I should not have?
If the above were not available I would be left with the choice between the more track based 888's or a048's, which with their much
heftier price tag and supposedly much higher wear rate I guess I cannot justify if I'm going to be wasting rubber on motorway and traffic jam
riddled slow commutes to work..unless I'm being totally paranoid about the wear rates and they would actually be good value for money?
eg is it a complete waste to have them on the car if the majority of the time I'm going to be just going on boring fast straight motorway and A
roads to and from places of interest? with the possibility of the rare occasional corner that justifies a bit more grip
I would happily spend the £300-£400 on a set of the track day oriented tyres if I knew they would be just fine and dandy for 6k-8k (which would be 2
or 3 years of driving if the last few years of ownership is anything to go by) of mainly motorway or A road boringness
Are they likely to be long past their best much sooner than that? as I certainly cannot justify that sort of cost twice a year and would be classed as
poor value for money!
Knocking a few tenths of a second off my commute to work or to get to a meet is less important than being caught out in the rain and being able to
stop or turn- again this may be an over reaction, maybe the more track day oriented tyres are as good as if not better than the tyres I currently have
had in the cold and wet anyway?
I did investigate some sticky Colways, but it appears they have long gone 
Lots of you are voting for the Falkens??
I will have to try and get to fondle a set to see what the sidewalls are like
I do suspect that a lot of others are running a much lower profile tyre and not getting the "sidewall thing" which killed the sensation of
being attached to the car
Regards
Rob
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Marcus
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| posted on 1/4/10 at 11:24 AM |
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I have used A539s in the past and really liked them. They gripped well in the dry and were ok in the wet (but not great)
At 45 quid a corner, I'd go for these over the others you listed.
PS is it the 539s that the Locost racers use?
Marcus
Because kits are for girls!!
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MikeRJ
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| posted on 1/4/10 at 11:50 AM |
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None of those tyres are suitable for a lightweight car, and the only one I'd consdier using on a tintop is the Falken.
All these tyres budget branded items with cheapness and life prioritised over grip, and on a lightweight car you really don't want this kind of
compromise.
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robocog
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| posted on 1/4/10 at 12:06 PM |
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OK, so which ones are suitable?
what is the expected on road mileage from them with mr average behind the wheel?
Regards
Rob
[Edited on 1/4/10 by robocog]
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paulf
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| posted on 1/4/10 at 09:16 PM |
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Ive got A021Rs on my car at the moment, they grip well in the wet and get up to temp quickly in the dry but I dont think they are going to last many
miles.
They can be obtained in 185/70/13 from George Polley tyres for about £45 each as they are a control tyres for stock cars.They also sell A539s as used
in the Locost race series at a slightly lower cost.
Paul.
quote:
Originally posted by robocog
OK, so which ones are suitable?
what is the expected on road mileage from them with mr average behind the wheel?
Regards
Rob
[Edited on 1/4/10 by robocog]
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