bitsilly
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| posted on 11/7/08 at 06:47 PM |
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R1 dyno results
Got the car to PDQ rolling road dyno.
He seemed to know his stuff. I think he was in too much of a hurry to do things to optimum which was a big pity as now I have that "what if he
had taken more time..." feeling. Great equiptment and a good bunch of blokes, all bikers! Cost was £75 an hour, I got charged for 3 hours but he
worked for just over two.
That said he made a big difference to the car.
He reckoned he would get 120 bhp but gave up at 115. At the wheels I guess it isn't too bad but I'm sure a little more is possible.
He fitted new needles and jets and sealed up the primary air jets.
Can anyone tell me what they are getting from carbed R1 at the wheels?? I think my 5jj originally was quoted as 150hp when on the bike. I am running a
quaife reverse box and have a lot of vibration/unbalanced driveshaft so I reckoned that would reduce it by 15-20% to the wheels leaving around
120hp?
What do you think?
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bitsilly
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| posted on 11/7/08 at 07:17 PM |
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Wise words!
The bottom line is the car goes really well now so I am happy, just a bit curious too!
I agree totally on the difficulty to compare, every dyno seems to be calibrated differently, some with more poetic licence than science!
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PAUL FISHER
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| posted on 11/7/08 at 07:35 PM |
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Sounds about right to me,my 2007 zx10r only did 120bhp at the wheels,here's my results to compare.
http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/viewthread.php?tid=81048
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bitsilly
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| posted on 11/7/08 at 07:41 PM |
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Cheers, an interesting thread.
Looking at your results though, I have a big dip in fuelling/power at about 5K revs, not really an issue but nowhere as good as yours!
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smart51
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| posted on 11/7/08 at 08:22 PM |
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My 4xv was dynoed at 152 BHP at the crank. He didn't tell me what the rear wheel figure was. More importantly, the car did feel faster above
about 8000 RPM. The true test of a good dyno session is "does it feel better".
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BenB
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| posted on 11/7/08 at 08:59 PM |
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Hang on a minute. Charged for three hours when he works for two? Sounds the wrong way round 
At TTS they worked for about two hours and charged for one cos my clutch was slipping!!! My fault but they charged me less!!!
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bitsilly
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| posted on 11/7/08 at 09:35 PM |
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Yep, I'm in denial over that one, he also let me re-assemble the choke in my own time! I only got charged £15 in parts, I figured that part of
an hour gets charged as an hour and didn't query it, too late now, but it's TTS next time without a doubt.
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TimC
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| posted on 12/7/08 at 07:00 AM |
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Just to pick-up on the comments in Paul's old thread, a dyno shoot-out and corner weight session would be a brilliant idea. I'd even
travel to see you northern boys for that.
Ed - I guess the proof of the pudding is the eating-up of Llandow later. I'll see you there.
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progers
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| posted on 12/7/08 at 09:00 AM |
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I dont want to wee on your fire as such but unless PDQ's rollers are particularly pessimistic 115bhp for an R1 is pretty poor.
I have had both carb'd and injected R1's and had them dyno'd at TTS and Powertech (radical's engine builder). Each time they
were over 130bhp at the wheels (no reverse box). The carbed motor was with a foam filter, the injected motor with an airbox
115bhp is a "typical" figure for a carb'd blade that has been well setup.
What I do know is that the R1 is sensitive to a good exhaust manifold and the ability to get cold air into the intake. Get either of these wrong and
you will be down on power. Get it right at you will improve the power over standard, putting it closer to 160bhp at the crank. If I was you I would
look at this area to improve performance. It would also be worth getting valve clearances checked.
A fellow racer had his 05 R1 dyno'd at PDQ recently and made 141 RwHP. Racing side by side we have very similar grunt so I would guess
PDQ's rollers are not far different as my current '03 injected motor is putting out 136rwhp.
Enjoy your car, it will still be silly fast. just note that if you want a bit more power it can be easily had with a few optimisations.
- Paul
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joetait
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| posted on 12/7/08 at 09:35 AM |
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My old Dax with a 5JJ carb'd R1 made 129BHP on the rollers at TTS but you cant compare figures like this - its meaningless. When I ran mine up
it was a cold day and raining hard - even the same run on the same rollers on a hot summers day would look much weaker.
Try inflating your tyres up to 40PSI then doing the run again, and you'll see the figures shoot up as you have less drag.
The carb'd R1's with open air filters need a dyno jet kit fitting but there is practically no adjustment to be made once the needle is on
the correct groove for your engine and you have the correct main jet. (initial pilot jet adjustment aside) Carbs are all about compromise - if it was
EFI then you could spend weeks optimising it precisely for every variable under the sun (air temp, water temp, ambient pressure etc etc, the map
compensation tables on a good EFI are endless let alone the basic injection/target AFR and ignition maps.)
Long and short of it is to go for EFI next time!
J
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progers
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| posted on 12/7/08 at 10:12 AM |
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Not quite true, rolling roads do correct their figures for temp and air pressure... When I took my 5JJ to TTS it was a stinking hot day and it still
made 133rwhp.
While I agree you cannot make direct comparisons as each RR is different, there should not be a >15hp discrepancy. It is indicative that something
is not 100% - so far from meaningless.
- Paul
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joetait
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| posted on 12/7/08 at 03:39 PM |
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Truth is...... I spent a while on the RR setting it up at TTS and then drove the car back home and found the delivery was far worse than when I drove
up there so I reverted back to my own real-world settings.
I had originally worked out the fuelling using an Innovate LM1 to datalog the AFR, TPS & RPM in the real world which seemed a much better way to
set it up.
After TTS had played with it I couldnt get past 120 (3.62 Diff) but with my own settings it pulled better in the midrange and went on to reach 129
consistently.
J
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amalyos
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| posted on 12/7/08 at 09:04 PM |
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I had my 5JJ set up at TTS, and saw 120 at the wheels with a home made airbox. All he needed to do was increase the main jets.
I recon it's about right for a bog std Card'd R1.
http://stevembuild.blogspot.com
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progers
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| posted on 13/7/08 at 09:01 AM |
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120bhp is about right for a carb'd R1 with a poor exhaust manifold. The typical 4-1 jobbies from kit car manufacturers are not well optimised
(they are just cheap to make). You only have to compare them to aftermarket systems from Akrapovic etc to see the difference. a 4-2-1 exhaust with the
correct length primaries and secondaries makes a big difference - this is probably what is accounting for the discrepencies, that and the general
health of the engine.
- Paul
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bitsilly
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| posted on 13/7/08 at 07:28 PM |
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Hello again and thanks for the feedback.
Well the update is that the car performed well at Llandow. The only thing that was consistantly faster was another BEC with slicks and posh stuff. It
embaressed a new stripped out Imprezza with trick bits and semi slicks. Bottom line is that I'm happy with that.
The exhaust is probably the next thing to upgrade but in all honesty I am resisting upgradeitis on this car as I have reached a good balance between
cost, reliability and power.
I am sure the engine could be better tuned, and that was my point I guess. Next time I will go to Silverstone!
If I can moan about the power etc then I have an excellent excuse for why I won't beat TimC by more at Llandow if he ever finishes his car.
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