Oh well, I tried.

Test today at Bristol, Howard the tester was a decent bloke and gave me opportunities to 'tweak' a couple of bits.

Fail points were:

1. Gear lever not radiused to 3.2mm on all surfaces - I'll fit the original Sierra knob

2. Fuel filler pipe not recognised or marked as suitable for fuel, so need new one and paperwork

3. Stick on cable clips on some parts of the loom - will rivet 'P'-clips instead

4. Terminals on ignition coil not covered/protected - boots to be fitted

5. The big one - when service brake is applied the vehicle should not deviate to the left or right, and all wheels of the rear axle must not lock prior to both wheels of the front axle.

So all-in-all I'm not devasted but P'd none the less

I asked his advice on the brake issue and he suggested fitting one of the limiting valves to restrict the amount of braking on the rear with respect to the front. He also said to be careful not to reduce the rear so much that it fails the % efficiency test on the rear brakes.

The only problem I now have is once I've fitted a valve, how do I prove it is within limits?

I guess it could have been a lot worse? The best thing was at least I got to drive it in a more 'spirited' fashion so he could see which wheels were locking up first

Any comments or suggestions welcome guys

[Edited on 24/7/12 by Daddylonglegs]

Not a bad fail at all.
You could trailer/tow (or drive ) the car to an MoT station to get the brakes tested.

Sticky tyres on the back, Teflon Ditchfinders on the front. Then see what locks up first!

Different sized master cylinders for the brakes (i.e., fit a bigger one for the rear or smaller for the front to bias it towards the front)? What sizes are on there at the moment?

Yes not a bad fail, easy enough items, as said above, brake test before retest at local garage, they should only charge a tender.
My first indy I took for a mot before sva just to check things like that.

Before you get too many recomendations on what to do with the brakes it might be an idea to tell us what brake set up you have ie disc or drums on the rear if drum what diameter, as it might be as simple as fitting smaller bore rear wheel cylinders.

as said get a valve fitted and speak nicely to a local MOT man...


this is what i have, http://www.burtonpower.com/ap-racing-brake-proportioning-valve-knob-type-cp3550-14.html?utm_source=google&utm_medium=base&utm_campaign=gb_feed ?WbRf=GBase

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Different sized master cylinders for the brakes (i.e., fit a bigger one for the rear or smaller for the front to bias it towards the front)? What sizes are on there at the moment?

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Originally posted by coyoteboy

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Different sized master cylinders for the brakes (i.e., fit a bigger one for the rear or smaller for the front to bias it towards the front)? What sizes are on there at the moment?

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Hang on - assuming independantly leveraged twin cyls, a larger one for the rear will give more pressure at the rear for the same pedal force...

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As above: Pressure = force / area

So if you increase the area (cylinder bore) for the rear master cylinder, say, you would reduce rear pressure.

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Originally posted by rodgling
As above: Pressure = force / area

So if you increase the area (cylinder bore) for the rear master cylinder, say, you would reduce rear pressure.

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OK thanks guys. Not too upset I suppose, at least I've got a 'to do' list now anyhow.

Not sure about messing with the cylinder sizes etc. as not sure if that would be too fiddly to get right?

The tester said it was marginal but when I took it for a dirve to let him see the lock ups then I did get a little 'step out' on the rear, and as he said, if that was at 50-60mph or even worse a wet road, I would have been facing the wrong way in an instant!

I have a garage about 400yds down the hill so may be able to tee something up with the guy there to test the efficiency after I have made the changes.

Any recommendations for the fuel filler hose? I need about 6" of the stuff, and IIRC it is around 60mm diameter.

Cheers,
JB

Forgot to say:

Front brakes - Cortina standard, new discs and pads

Rear - 9" ford Drums with new shoes.

[Edited on 24/7/12 by Daddylonglegs]

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Not sure about messing with the cylinder sizes etc. as not sure if that would be too fiddly to get right?

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I had big problems with this exact issue for ages (MOT and IVA never picked it up, but I had occasional scary moments on hard braking where the back would step out big time).

Eventually I worked out that the front master cylinder was faulty and not always generating enough pressure, presumably due to the internal seals not being right. Braking has been great since I swapped it out for a replacement. So that is another possibility.

Forget about using a roller brake test set up for normal MOTs it won't tell you much, the way the IVA test is carried out simulates dynamic weight transfer.
A road test driving in straight line low speed on a clean dry good tarmac surface will tell you if the front brakes are locking as before the fronts. To check the back brakes are effective try the brakes at slow speed on gravel you should be able to lock all 4 wheels without too much trouble.


The 9" drums on the rear of Cortinas can be either Girling or Bendix most were Bendix which don't allow much scope for swapping out cylinders.
So the answer is a proportioning valve or a simple pressure shut off valve.

With single line to the rear wheels the simplest and cheapest answer is a valve off a production car, the Fiat Strada/Ritmo or Lada Riva valve is very cheap (about £10) and requires a very simple external bracket added to make adjustable. Once adjusted the adjuster bolt must be rendered in operable (usually a by bead of weld) before IVA.

BRAKE VALVE / PRV - Pressure Regulating Valve - FIAT PANDA | eBay

Not a bad fail at all, how does your fuel filler run? If it doesn't turn any corners, I have some pleasantly overkill hose you can have. Will have to check markings though, as it's marine stuff

Edit: should be okay, is this only 51mm id.

http://item.mobileweb.ebay.co.uk/viewitem?itemId=110409386482&cmd=VIDESC

[Edited on 24/7/12 by Staple balls]

[Edited on 24/7/12 by Staple balls]

Chin up mate - sounds like a reasonable fail to me!

Where in the IVA manual does it talk about the fuel filler hose and the standards it needs to comply to? I have been looking and cannae find it.

[Edited on 24/7/12 by Irony]

Hi
Our Indy failed the 1st time because rear brakes were locking up before
fronts, we have a Sunny 1.8GTI M/cyl, willwood callipers at the front & Sierra drums on the back.
The Inspector was very knowledgeable & suggested we fitted a metro Bias valve on the rears.
We did exactly that, and passed with flying colours.
Dont fit an adjustable one , as they are a big no no for the IVA.
Good luck.

Hard luck pall. The fuel filler hose I used has got fuel transfer written down the side, I got it from one of the stalls at stoneleigh I would'nt want to have to buy a metre tho its bloody expensive. I think I only found two sizes of wheel cylinder for the drums, I went for the largest ones with this in mind, same set up and no probs. I used the escort non servo duel master but I had it re sleeved cos I had a creepy pedal, Yes it could a master problem.

You could always fit a smaller wheel to the front and a larger wheel on the rear and that would do the job

At least theres nothing too major!

Was it just your fuel filler? or was it also your fuel lines?

and... ive just started sticking my loom in with those self adhesive stick on plastic blocks- look like im going further backwards then forwards

Mark.

Would it be due to using 9 inch rear drums rather than the smaller escort ones? most people seem to get on successfully with escort drums and cortina front brakes with out needing a bias valve , the easiest way would be a bias valve as suggested though.
Paul

Thanks for the input guys.

Not really sure where to go to be honest

Don't want to spend another chunk of money especially as the re-test is another £90!

I have searched for threads about bias valves but cannot get a straight answer really. Some folk say bias valve with adjuster permanently welded is OK, others say no adjustable bias valve of any sort!! I've lloked into master cylinders and repair kits but they seem to be a dark art. Besides that, the tester did say that the efficiencies were pretty good so I'd be suprised if it was the MC. Can't remember what the front was, but the rear was 75% and he said for the weight, 60% was the lowest allowed.

All I want to do is sort this damn thing out so I can get my retest booked, I feel further away than when I was waiting for the test

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2. Fuel filler pipe not recognised or marked as suitable for fuel, so need new one and paperwork

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sorry scrub my last spoutings You need smaller cylinders not lager ones and you have lager drums than me, if you have the larger cylinders fitting the smaller ones would be a simple cheap fix.

My Altas axle had discs on and to circumnavigate the rears locking-up before the fronts, I chopped half the friction material off the pads so the contact area was smaller. Can you munch some off the shoes or fit narrower ones?

@neilp1 - The hose I used was from either CBS or Europa at Stoneleigh last year, I can't remember which. It is the canvas-type stuff with a wire-wound inner, no markings. I am waiting on a call from the tester to clarify whether he needs marked pipe and/or paperwork to state it is fit for fuel use.

The stick-on cable tie holders are a defo no-no I'm afraid. He said that they are liable to 'weather' and come off over time.

@owelly - I always thought that discs were much better than drums hence discs on the rear of mine would make the matter worse?

I see what you are saying about 'adjusting' the brake shoes on the rear, but am worried about reducing the performance too much so it fails the brake test on serevice brake efficiency at the rear?

I am also going to speak to the tester regarding using bias valves and the rulings as they interpret it on using disabled 'adjustable' types.

JB

If I remember my tech days correctly, “Friction is independent of surface aria ” The size of the brakes is more to do with wear & heat dissipation than efficiency , for less efficiency you need less pressure, either a regulator or smaller wheel cylinders.

Hi
I have a piece exactely 6" long left over, its 51mm I/D 60mm O/D
Ultra flexible fuel filler hose with embedded spiral wire
Part no #FFF51 from car builders solutions. page 37 on their catalogue.
Your welcome to it FOC , UTU.
René.

Hi René,

Thanks for the offer, but I need 57mm ID and that looks like the stuff I already have so they would probably not be happy with it anyhow.

Cheers

JB

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Originally posted by Daddylonglegs


The stick-on cable tie holders are a defo no-no I'm afraid. He said that they are liable to 'weather' and come off over time.


JB

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I used PU all the way along

^^^^^ +1

I used Tigerseal to stick the pads to the inside of the arch then tie-wraps to hold the loom. Works a treat, it ain't gonna move

(famous last words )

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Originally posted by johnwilders
I used PU all the way along

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Polyurethane

(ie sikaflex, tigerseal)

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Originally posted by Daddylonglegs

I am also going to speak to the tester regarding using bias valves and the rulings as they interpret it on using disabled 'adjustable' types.

JB

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