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Bitcoin for sale
ChrisW - 27/5/13 at 08:06 PM

Thought I'd try here in case anyone else is into Bitcoin?

I have 5 BTC for sale from mining. Will sell at the prevailing mtgox rate at time of transfer with no commission. Currently £82/BTC so £410 however this will change over time.

Bank transfer or Paypal 'gift' only as per usual Bitcoin best practice.

Chris

nick205 - 27/5/13 at 09:59 PM

Not ready to dive in yet, but fascinated by the concept.

Imho, banks and governments should be watching this very carefully.

liam.mccaffrey - 27/5/13 at 11:04 PM

Wish I'd have bought some of these at Christmas

ChrisW - 28/5/13 at 09:04 AM

quote:
Originally posted by liam.mccaffrey
Wish I'd have bought some of these at Christmas


They're still easing their way up slowly but surely. Not quite the boom of around Christmas time, but still a far better proposition (interest wise) than a bank. Wish I'd got into it sooner, and sold out a load during the big peak about 6 weeks ago, but that's the nature of the market.

Chris

McLannahan - 27/11/13 at 10:05 PM

Not a troll bumping a unlock your mobile post but just wanted to add to this thread!

If Chris were to sell his 5 BTC today it'd be worth £3065, a damn good increase from the £400 they were worth just six months ago!

Did anyone buy these from Chris, or does anyone else have a stash of BTC?

ChrisW - 27/11/13 at 10:11 PM

I sold them, got something like £400 for them. Used it to buy more mining kit and made more before the GPU bubble burst.

Gutted that I sold half of what I had when they hit £220 each - I wasn't expecting them to go over £200 so when I woke up and saw that price I sold quick.

Still got a few left though, tidy little profit considering me and a mate put £500 in each to buy the first lot of mining kit and then built it up from there. Considering I was unemployed at the time (early this year) it was a big spend, but glad I did it.

I still think there is room left to make money, but if anyone is thinking of getting into it, be quick!

Chris

Fozzie - 27/11/13 at 10:23 PM

Have not got a scoobie what you are talking about but it sure does sound interesting....
Any of you guys care to enlighten me?

sdh2903 - 27/11/13 at 10:23 PM

Can someone explain in numpty terms what the heck a bit coin is? Even googling it I still can't fathom it out. As far as I can understand its a digital currency? How on earth do you mine something that's virtual? How do you sell something that's virtual??

I am genuinely intrigued but also baffled by it all

sdh2903 - 27/11/13 at 10:25 PM

Fozzie beat me to it^

craig1410 - 27/11/13 at 10:27 PM

I guy I work with sold 2000 BTC's a couple of years ago for £50 and then paypal seized the funds for some reason so he effectively lost them! Today those would be worth $2m

He still has some other coins though and is currently trying to sell some of them. Before he did though, he was trying to figure out how he stands with regard to capital gains tax because he is having to sell them to dollars (in Japan) before converting to GBP via EUR or something convoluted like that. Anyone know about the CGT position on this stuff?

C.

ChrisW - 27/11/13 at 10:44 PM

Think of it as selling the answers to your maths homework.

You 'mine' a coin by working out a very difficult sum, so difficult in fact that it takes the world's combined solving power 10 minutes on average to work out the answer. We are talking billions and billions of sums, and there is a mechanism in the sum that means more computing power doesn't mean the answers come any quicker. For this reason the 'answers' are in limited supply and require effort to obtain them, just like a real valuable item eg gold.

There is a mechanism in place to prevent more than one person knowing the answer to the sum at any one time. Also to stop them selling the answer to more than one person. Of course anyone can sell on their answers at any time, but only once per answer.

Because of this scarcity, and the mechanisms to stop the 'answer' being copied and sold, they can be used as a virtual currency, except that there is no central bank, the 'answers' you own are just stored on your hard drive. No central bank means transactions are very difficult to trace and, more importantly, nobody can tie up who owns how many 'answers'. It's as good as cash, but can be sent electronically.

Like any currency, the value changes. When Bitcoin was started the coins were worth pennies. Over time, as people have adopted them as currency, the value has gone up.

So, the way to make money is to either predict when the price is about to rise, buy as many 'answers' as you can, and then sell once the price has risen. Or, build stupidly powerful computers to work out the answers yourself.

Chris

sdh2903 - 27/11/13 at 10:47 PM

Ok so why do these 'sums' need answering and who needs the 'answers'?

craig1410 - 27/11/13 at 10:58 PM

quote:
Originally posted by sdh2903
Ok so why do these 'sums' need answering and who needs the 'answers'?


You could ask the same question about Gold or Diamonds or any other rare resource. The value is in the rarity and the fact the resources are finite.

Here's an FAQ that answers most questions. Don't worry if you don't understand 100% of this by the way. Some of the details require knowledge of cryptography and computer science/maths etc.

http://bitcoin.org/en/faq

[Edited on 27/11/2013 by craig1410]

Fozzie - 27/11/13 at 11:01 PM

Hmmmm so if it is all 'virtual' (verbal?)... how do you know who (genuinely) has what (for sale) and what exactly you have purchased (proof)?

ChrisW - 27/11/13 at 11:02 PM

Exactly. Who 'needs' gold. Nobody really.

If something is scarce enough that you can't just get hold of it for no effort, and everyone agrees a value, then it can become a currency. It's just the same principal applied to 'maths homework'.

Chris

craig1410 - 27/11/13 at 11:03 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Fozzie
Hmmmm so if it is all 'virtual' (verbal?)... how do you know who (genuinely) has what (for sale) and what exactly you have purchased (proof)?


The transaction history is stored in what is called the 'block chain'. Think of it as a giant ledger containing the address of every wallet that has ever made a transaction and the amounts etc. Everyone has a copy of this block chain so you can independently verify the integrity of all transactions. This uses complex techniques to ensure the integrity.

Note that I said it tracks wallets. Who owns those virtual wallets isn't really tracked so you need to ensure you don't lose your wallet or have the contents removed.

[Edited on 27/11/2013 by craig1410]

ChrisW - 27/11/13 at 11:06 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Fozzie
Hmmmm so if it is all 'virtual' (verbal?)... how do you know who (genuinely) has what (for sale) and what exactly you have purchased (proof)?


This is where my analogy falls down a little, but bear with me.

It's difficult to find the answer, but once you have it it's easy to prove that it's correct.

Think of the sum like a jigsaw puzzle. Once someone makes the effort to put it together is it's dead simple for a third party to verify that it's correct - all the pieces in the right place, no gaps, etc.

Chris

sdh2903 - 27/11/13 at 11:07 PM

Yes but rare resources such as gold are a physical element, which is quantified by its weight. I just can't get my head round how bit coins can be classed in a similar way? They are virtual so how do they have a monetary value??

If I buy one of these 'sums' what can I do with it?? is basically what I'm struggling with

craig1410 - 27/11/13 at 11:10 PM

quote:
Originally posted by sdh2903
Yes but rare resources such as gold are a physical element, which is quantified by its weight. I just can't get my head round how bit coins can be classed in a similar way? They are virtual so how do they have a monetary value??

If I buy one of these 'sums' what can I do with it?? is basically what I'm struggling with


When you make a donation to locostbuilders using your credit card, does that involve the transfer of anything physical? No, it's just a bunch of numbers which results in your bank balance reducing and LB forum's increasing. You might think that small pieces of Gold are being moved behind the scenes but Gold is a separate currency so really all you are doing every day when buying and selling stuff is moving digital currency around. No different to bit coins at that level.

Fozzie - 28/11/13 at 12:18 AM

Ahhhh yes I am beginning to 'get' it thanks

Chris...you say you have to watch that your wallet contents don't get lost or removed...
How, or, who could do that if it is in the virtual bank? ...

craig1410 - 28/11/13 at 12:26 AM

I think it might have been me who said that.

Essentially, your wallet is just a file on your hard drive and so if someone hacked into your computer then they could in theory delete your wallet (in which case the money is removed from circulation permanently which will cause the value of the remaining bitcoins increase). They might also be able to steal your money although I'm less sure about how this would work and what measures are in place to prevent it. I do know that you can elect to print your wallet out where you literally print out some very large numbers, often with a QR type barcode for easy re-entry. Then you can delete the electronic files from your computer and store the paper copies in a bank safety deposit box if you want to.

There are more details here about security: http://bitcoin.org/en/secure-your-wallet

I hope this helps.
Craig.

Fozzie - 28/11/13 at 12:51 AM

Perfect...thank you Craig

jeffw - 28/11/13 at 06:53 AM

From PC Pro

The value of Bitcoin has surpassed $1,000 for the first time, as the virtual currency's bubble shows no sign of bursting.

The milestone has been reached on the Mt.Gox exchange, although other exchanges have the price pinned closer to $900.

The value of Bitcoin has surged by more than 60% in the past week; at the beginning of the month it was worth only a quarter of today's price.

The volatile Bitcoin almost dipped close to the $100 mark in October when the notorious Silk Road website was shut down after an FBI raid. The hard-to-trace Bitcoins were used to purchase drugs and other illegal goods on the site.

News of the surging price will be particularly galling for IT worker, James Howells, who told The Guardian that he mindlessly disposed of a hard disk containing 7,500 Bitcoins in a clearout this summer.

The hard disk is now believed to be buried at least 4ft down in a football-pitch sized landfill site near Newport, Wales. Fetch a shovel.