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Type 9 - Lost all gears except 5th!
dhutch - 28/7/14 at 09:59 PM

As per the title, all of a sudden, went to move of and I have a box of neutrals!
- Felt odd, stiff, couldnt get any drive anywhere.
- Stopped, jacked car up, prop and diff where fine.
- Shift started feeling normal again, but only engages 5th.

I am told 'there is a roll pin in the top that sometimes goes' and its most likely that. Sadly I think the box (and hence engine?) will have to come out, but once out, what sort of a size of job are we talking, top of, half and hour, done. Or get a new box and sort it over the winter.

Thoughts, suggestions, photos of the offending item?


Daniel

coozer - 28/7/14 at 10:42 PM

Take the gear stick out and see if the saddle is OK. That's the weak link in the system.

JAMSTER - 29/7/14 at 08:33 AM

could be this HEAVY DUTY RACING SPEC&apos' GEARLEVER SADDLE CLIP FOR FORD TYPE 9 &' ROCKET 4GEARBOX

as coozer said worth a look

dhutch - 29/7/14 at 12:00 PM

The sticks on a remote shifter, looks like the one in the link below, and all of that does totally hunky dorry. I have one of the red saddles with me, and will try it with the gear stick direct into the box (extension removed) but I really don't think its the issue given how it felt when it failed.

WESTFIELD CATERHAM 7 DAX LOCOST SIERRA 5 SPEED TYPE 9 GEARLEVER EXTENSION MLR.NC


Daniel

baz-R - 29/7/14 at 12:57 PM

all gears exept 5th uses the main box slector (5th is in the tail housing)

take the box out and remove the lid and look down at the selector and move it into 1-4th

there is a roll pin that holds the the bit that moves the selector forks onto the selector shaft but you will have to see if its possibe without stripping the gearbox. the little finger bit also has been known brake off

dhutch - 15/9/14 at 11:46 AM

quote:
Originally posted by baz-R
there is a roll pin that holds the the bit that moves the selector forks onto the selector shaft but you will have to see if its possibe without stripping the gearbox. the little finger bit also has been known brake off

Gearbox and engine out, top off, it is indeed the roll pin.

Half of it is/was still in the shaft, the two ends the have failed are absent so presumably in the bottom of the box.

Going to have a fish with a magnet on a stick, and hope for the best!
If that does work I think I will suck out the rest of the oil, split the box from the engine, and try and shake them out.
Not sure what happens if that fails, as I dont want to strip the box, but also dont want to mash it.

Daniel

baz-R - 15/9/14 at 01:48 PM

IIRC there is a donut shape magnet at the bottom of the later type9's with any luck its stuck there

when looking at the underside you see a bit of casting that looks like there was a bit that could have had a drain plug if it was drilled and tapped by ford, its not its where the magnet lives.

it may be possibe to hook it out with the gears still in place if your lucky?

dhutch - 15/9/14 at 08:29 PM

quote:
Originally posted by baz-R
IIRC there is a donut shape magnet at the bottom of the later type9's with any luck its stuck there

when looking at the underside you see a bit of casting that looks like there was a bit that could have had a drain plug if it was drilled and tapped by ford, its not its where the magnet lives.

it may be possibe to hook it out with the gears still in place if your lucky?


Oooo, I did notice that bit and wonder what it was, that would be awesome.

Obviously I have driven the car with no issues (all be it, only in 5th) for around an hour to get home, so if there is a magnet it would expect its highly likely it there!



Daniel

dhutch - 16/9/14 at 10:14 PM

Stupid question, but where should I be going for a new roll pin.

I understand it is 5x20mm, but dont expect all roll pins are equal, and am obviously keen to prevent premature failure.

Will this do the job?

http://cbradleymotorsport.co.uk/transmission-drivetrain/gearboxes/quaife/gearbox-spares/type-9-dogbox-roll-pin-5x22.html



Daniel

rusty nuts - 17/9/14 at 05:57 PM

When you have the new roll pin in place use some decent lockwire to secure it in place

[Edited on 17/9/14 by rusty nuts]

dhutch - 17/9/14 at 06:35 PM

quote:
Originally posted by rusty nuts
When you have the new roll pin in place use some decent lockwire to secure it in place

How do you lock wire it, through the hole in the middle and around the lobe shaped piece?
- Presumably the interlock/collar piece doesn't slide over that part so you can get away with it?
- Obviously wouldn't have prevented this failure, there the pin has sheared off however.

baz-R - 17/9/14 at 06:47 PM

I would think a normal rollpin size was used by ford.

It could be metric or imperial and only need bevan long as the total hole length.

Lock wire can be passed down the hole when it's fitted and looped around the outside to stop the pin shaking out.

rusty nuts - 18/9/14 at 06:16 PM

I've had several roll pins come out over the years even when they have been new when fitted. Locking them with wire stops them moving. I wouldn't be surprised if the
OP roll pin broke due to partially coming out of the selector/shaft

dhutch - 18/9/14 at 07:56 PM

quote:
Originally posted by baz-R
I would think a normal rollpin size was used by ford.
I expect so too, I don't have the ability to accurately measure the hole, but with it in the hole I have measure I have measured the diameter of the half I have left to be 4x20mm which is at odds with the above link suggesting 5x20mm however from a post on WSCC I have also seen recommendation that BGH geartech can and will supply pins, including a second pin of the right size to go inside the first, so that is my plan, along with some lock wire!

quote:
Originally posted by rusty nuts
I've had several roll pins come out over the years even when they have been new when fitted. Locking them with wire stops them moving. I wouldn't be surprised if the OP roll pin broke due to partially coming out of the selector/shaft

I have hammered the box a bit, if only finishing an autotest with the clutch cable well and truly out of alignment, but you are right, that its possible the pin had come out half way before shearing once the load was doubled.


Daniel

rusty nuts - 18/9/14 at 08:05 PM

Hope it's sorted now

dhutch - 24/9/14 at 08:12 PM

quote:
Originally posted by rusty nuts
Hope it's sorted now

UPDATE!

Rang BGH and was asked to ring back Tuesday (yesterday) and ask for Chris.

Did just that ad a good chat with Chris, who was helpful has all the bits in, highlights from the call where.
- Place the split line either at the front or the back, as having at the sides causes the pin to crack.
- Then place the inner pin 180 deg from that, again not at the time. You do not need lockwire with a second pin in the middle.
- The broken bit will be on the magnet, shearing them in uncommon, compared to the splitting.
- Change the rear pin while you are at it, as its quick and easy and often fails at a similar time.
- Speedo seal is easy to change (my weeps) but you will need take out the gear and replace the cover.
- Remove cover by distorting it, like you would a coreplug, not be knocking out with the gear.
- Put a small lead in (mainly just removing the lip) on the casing when installing new seal.
- The box takes around 1.6l of oil, use Comma SX75w-90 GL4 , not EP ninty. Can be bought from Halfords.

Costs
- Set of three roll pints - 70p
- Speedo seal and closure about - £3ish
- Few speedo circlips (used) - FOC
- Top cover gasket (missing) - £4ish
- Oil 2x1l (same price as frauds) £20ish
- Postage (half of which is due to the oil) £10
- Total £45

Should arrive tomorrow.


Daniel