following on from my thread where i found out my 3.0 V6 won't fit in my chassis 
whats my options, and whats involved in fitting either
2.0 zetec
or
2.0 xe
or
2,0 ecotec
i'm what prices am i looking at, how easy to get either, and tuning possiblities.
i'm drawn to the XE, but i know neither will be cheap to modify to fit 
shoot!
[Edited on 3/11/07 by blakep82]
XE more power to start with. !150 ish for a bellhousing.
is there a bell housing for a ecotec with type 9 box?
ecotecs seem cheaper, and easier to get hold of. looks like they stopped making the XE about 14 years ago
don't think the racing trucks are using XE engines either, since they're so old now
Same bolt pattern, so will bolt right up.
Depends what your budget is? A scabby Omega 2.0 comes with a free RWD box, or failing that, you can have the lot including box from a breakers for 200
sheets.
XE is nice, and there are plenty of bits, but they're nowhere near as cheap as the Zetec and Ecotec.
Oh, and Ecotec and XE are just as capable performance wise, but the Ecotec really needs some head porting to unleash good power.
ecotec it is then. I know there's a 2.0 calibra turbo being broken in my town at the moment, but any xe engine's will have been abused by
now.
seen an ecotec on ebay, 4 hours left, no bids. no starting bid, but a reserve. seems they're quite easy to get.
Race "Pick-Up Trucks", like the National Hot Rods use the XE. What's the fact they haven't made them for 14 years got to do with
anything? (other than price). How long since Ford made a BDA/BDG or a Twincam? Absolutely everything is available for them.
The Ecotec is a bag o' shite in comparison. If you can't afford an XE use an old 8 valve GM from a Carlton.
Anyway how can you profess to be building a race type "pick up truck" if you haven't even done the slightest bit of research about
them, which clearly you haven't?
When getting rid of the old Taunus engine bear in mind that scrap's making £150 a tonne now - it'll be the best offer you get.
lol, calm down! didn't think there was any call for that!
[Edited on 3/11/07 by blakep82]
quote:
Originally posted by blakep82
is there a bell housing for a ecotec with type 9 box?
ecotecs seem cheaper, and easier to get hold of. looks like they stopped making the XE about 14 years ago
Depends on the budget. Duratecs are still expensive, and still need a bellhousing (or an MX5 box).
Ecotec is a fine motor for a budget. ZX9 carbs and a megajolt get 170bhp from one I built for a mates Indy.
Unfortunately, Mr Walker above has had a gob on him for the five years I've been a member here
QED claim 195bhp from the ecotec with their cams and throttle body kit with no port work, not too bad?
I think its a little blinkered when people say the red top has more power than and ecotec in standard form so it must be better. The ecotec has more
low down torque and is built for emisions and fuel economy, but once you junk the manifolds and ecu there is little difference between them, the inlet
valves are 1mm smaller on the ecotecs, the ports look smaller, but size isnt everything.
Paul
quote:
Originally posted by Cousin Cleotis
QED claim 195bhp from the ecotec with their cams and throttle body kit with no port work, not too bad?
Ha, Ha Fatboy Dave - spot on, lol.
Doesn't mean that what I say isn't right does it? The truth sometimes hurts, you shelf stackers, students, pretend mechanics etc out there
want to stop dreaming up bhp numbers and get a reality check. The Ecotec is a family saloon motor and a good one at that, the Cossie designed XE
isn't eco friendly and was dumped for that reason along with the high costs of manufacture associated with it. However it will remain the choice
of racers until Duratec parts start coming in a little cheaper.
By the way QED sell bits, they do nothing else except sell bits OK. Their engineering staff, most of whom I know well, walked away some time ago and
today concentrate on Twincams, XE's and K Series within their own businesses. None of them though do Ecotecs.
Oh and gob or not, I build engines that win races and lots of them. I speak my mind and for that reason I spend a lot of time on the phone helping
Locosters who ring me with their problems - without complaint. I never seem to sell them anything 'cos by definition being a Locoster means being
a tight sod, but good luck to them. What I will not do is what a a good many people on here do and that is regurgitate tosh they have heard "on
the net" and pass it off as expert opinion.
Finally, and I will shut up then (for a short while), I have told you armchair se7eners before - a 160bhp, at the wheels se7en is as quick as you
could want one.
Bye for now
Interesting thread this, speaking as a bike engined sevener.
I was out blatting yesterday with about a dozen cars. Almost every engine was represented there, along with almost every budget / spend.
2 x RS500's with very heavily modified 1.8K Series engines. (1 starter motor packed in, 1 spat it's coolant out).
3 x Zetec 1800's
1 x Fireblade
1 x ZX9R
1 x ZZR1100
1 x R1
A few crossflows and I'm afraid to say I don't know what the other lads were driving.
However the RS500, the XE powered car, and 1 of the Zetecs were VERY quick. They are all packing around 200bhp and those guys have been driving
7's for years. This ties in with Dave's suggested figure of 160 bhp at the wheels.
The next group were the BEC's with around 150bhp. There was nothing to choose between the BEC's, but we were slightly off the pace of the
front three.
The only catastrophic failure we had was a XE, running GSXR throttle bodies, megasquirt. Combined with an LSD and sticky rear tyres this one let go
at max revs, slightly sideways! Admittedly it's had a hard life, but it was running ARP bolts, pocketed pistons etc.
In conclusion, IMHO, the Zetec is the best engine. The ability to drop it in straight from the donor, fit throttle bodies and megasquirt and get the
performance to keep up with cars that had mega money spent on there engines makes it a winner any day.
Anyway, I'll be sticking to my £250 disposable engine.
Mike
quote:
Originally posted by chriscook
quote:
Originally posted by Cousin Cleotis
QED claim 195bhp from the ecotec with their cams and throttle body kit with no port work, not too bad?
But you can get that using standard cams in an XE. My first XE engine I paid £125 for and I won one off ebay yesterday at £87. The new one is getting a full strip down and rebuild so if its not in great condition it doesn't really matter too much.
quote:
Originally posted by Guinness
The only catastrophic failure we had was a XE, running GSXR throttle bodies, megasquirt. Combined with an LSD and sticky rear tyres this one let go at max revs, slightly sideways! Admittedly it's had a hard life, but it was running ARP bolts, pocketed pistons etc.
quote:
Originally posted by stevebubs
Was this Mike / OiOi, by any chance? If so, I've seen the pics of the block. Not good.
quote:
Originally posted by david walker
Ha, Ha Fatboy Dave - spot on, lol.
quote:
Originally posted by Fatboy Dave I s'pose you could always throw back that the X20XEV head was designed by Lotus for a balance of performance, economy and emissions.
Problem is, when did you last see an XE for £100 that was worth having? That doesn't even get you a decent head these days.
Some people refuse to let go that although a good engine, the XE is going the way of the twincam; soon you won't be able to get hold of a decent
motor for love nor money (mind, there'll always be shitloads of 8v blocks, and it just takes a decent head).
havent read all the thread as I can't be bothered and don't have time, but Dave Walker is right so listen to what he says, he does it for a
living and wins a lot of races.
re. the XE vs Ecotec, FORGET THE FLIPPING POWER ARGUMENT!!
The XE as stock WILL make better power, by about 20-25hp if fitted with the right inlet and exhaust systems (i.e. throttle bodies or carbs plus 4-2-1
exhaust)...............
but that's not the issue, if you are tuning it, the XE has 8 bolt crank, the ecotec only 6 bolt (same as old 8 valve engine), the XE crank is
also stronger. It also has totally differently located valves. The ecotec valve locations are as per the zetec, in the corners of the chambers, thus
limiting size, causing shrouding and not helping chamber shape.
Regarding "installation bits" like bellhousing and clutch etc, both units need the same so no issue there.
Basically, for a budget job, see some posts in the past on here that I did for various others, but in summary, buy a 1991-92 low mileage
cavalier/calibra/astra16v in driveable condition, drive it home, strip it, sell the bits you don't want, and the base engine will then be a known
entity and will cost you around £100-£200 after you've sold the excess bits (bear in mind the shell will weigh in for about £80 now)
then start buying the expensive bits, and no, you won't get a bellhousing for less than £140, but then thats what you'll probably pay for an
alloy ford one anyway.
quote:
Originally posted by Fatboy Dave
Problem is, when did you last see an XE for £100 that was worth having? That doesn't even get you a decent head these days.
Some people refuse to let go that although a good engine, the XE is going the way of the twincam; soon you won't be able to get hold of a decent motor for love nor money (mind, there'll always be shitloads of 8v blocks, and it just takes a decent head).
quote:
The world has become too obsessed with pikEy-bay and forgotten that the local papers yield some lovely cheap nice cars from those in the non computer world.
there's usually a couple under £400 and you could probably talk them down
If you can show me an Astra GTE, or a Cavvy GSI available for 400 in a loved state (not 'loved' as in 'f**ked'
, then I'll
buy all I can - I never keep one on the books for more than a couple of days before it's gone. I actually have two people waiting for engines now
if you can show me one going for this price?
Even Sierras round here now are £500, and this isn't exactly an affluent neighbourhood.
It doesn't change the fact that they've gone the way of the mk2 and the Cortina, and they're going to get harder and harder to find,
and people are going to have to accept that the Ecotec for want of its failings, is a perfectly useable motor.
quote:
Originally posted by Peteff
there's usually a couple under £400 and you could probably talk them down
what's likely to be in a K/L plate calibra (turbo)?
mines came from a K plate sri 16v (there's the clue) the engine was fitted to quite a few of the late sri's.
In a K or L plate calibra it could be redtop LET (turbo'ed XE).
Look for a spark plug cover with a leg on it as opposed to straight (if you know what I mean).
^ yeah, i know the ones. look like one of these things-> ¬ instead of -
i'll check it out! theres one being broken near me.
this may be a stupid question, how easy is it to remove the turbo? I'm just thinking if it either 1) doesn't come with everything it needs
and i can't afford to buy the missing bits, 2) i'm struggling for space (which shouldn't be a problem) or 3) i could sell it to make
some money back, and replace it later when i've got more money
Usually the turbo'ed models will have a lower C/Ratio so unless you want a turbo then go for the right thing from the start.
turbo has wrong pistons and quite possibly wrong clutch, but is worth much more and is much more saleable
quote:
Originally posted by Fatboy Dave
If you can show me an Astra GTE, or a Cavvy GSI available for 400 in a loved state (not 'loved' as in 'f**ked'
Even Sierras round here now are £500, and this isn't exactly an affluent neighbourhood.
It doesn't change the fact that they've gone the way of the mk2 and the Cortina, and they're going to get harder and harder to find, and people are going to have to accept that the Ecotec for want of its failings, is a perfectly useable motor.
i hate engines... the scrap yeard round here are full of shite. metros, polos etc, and all very rusty. I live right next to the river Clyde, so the
air's very salty all year round. anythings decent has been abused by chavs, and usually rolled
there's really not much round here
quote:
Originally posted by Fatboy Dave
Problem is, when did you last see an XE for £100 that was worth having? That doesn't even get you a decent head these days.
quote:
Originally posted by NS Dev
quote:
Originally posted by Fatboy Dave
If you can show me an Astra GTE, or a Cavvy GSI available for 400 in a loved state (not 'loved' as in 'f**ked'
Even Sierras round here now are £500, and this isn't exactly an affluent neighbourhood.
It doesn't change the fact that they've gone the way of the mk2 and the Cortina, and they're going to get harder and harder to find, and people are going to have to accept that the Ecotec for want of its failings, is a perfectly useable motor.
Blimey I must really live in a dump then! The chap across the road that i am mates with has just bought a very tidy GTE 16v with perfect engine (replaced and the replacement has done under 50,000miles) 6 speed gearbox, bilstein suspension (not chav rubbish, the rally strut casings etc) and a whole pile of decent bits, for £300. he was going to break it but now having driven it he's using it for winter then breaking it.
6 months ago I bought an MOT'd 1994 cavalier SRI with an XE in it (on the changeover year, some had ecotecs, some XE's, you have to look! ) that had 98,000 on the clock, recent (non-dealer) service history, and best of all, it had had a porous head and as a result had a fully (and nicely) recon Coscast head on it. Even the bodywork was tidy.
I paid £200 cash, pulled the engine, box, electric aerial, lights and radiator(it had a new one) out, sold all bar the engine on ebay, which netted around £125 iirc, then weighed the shell in which made about £75 iirc, so the engine was free.
The head or headgasket then started leaking on my locost, so rather than fanny about the head from that cavvy engine went straight on and the one that came off is in my pile of Coscast heads awaiting checking over!
lol true!
Certainly won't argue that ecotecs are common, and yep, one with gearbox plucked from an omega makes for a cheap donor that is on equal par or
maybe slightly better than a zetec.
Plenty of Cavalier SRi's up here for around £350 with 6mo MOT.
http://www.adtrader.co.uk/classhome.php?class_id=110&trader_id=8864&search_words=cavalier
Stick the lights, wheels, interior and bumpers on ebay and weigh in the shell, should get back £100-200 depending on how mad the ebayers and Chinese
steel buyers are feeling that week.
that turbo'd xe has already gone.
I'm not really up for buying a whole car and breaking it. too much effort, i'd rather just buy an engine.
I guess its an xe from ebay then...
be very careful, the hassle of breaking a car is nothing compared to the hassle of installing your ebay engine to find it needs a new head cos its
gone porous.
You need to see it running before you buy
true... what yould be the symptoms of a porous cylinder head? smoke? water/steam?
I've not got the space to break a car (already got too many cars...) or the time to strip it, time for ebaying the parts etc.
I know a decent head for them are more expensive (usually) than a complete engine, but it there anyway to repair a porous head?
I was speaking to a guy the other day, who might have a mate with a XE for sale, I'll have a word. I'm planning on getting it stripped down
anyway.
these things are a minefield... I might be luck (unlikely...), maybe a coscast head, but how do you tell the difference?
quote:
Originally posted by blakep82
these things are a minefield... I might be luck (unlikely...), maybe a coscast head, but how do you tell the difference?
aye its a minefield, but not as bad as some would suggest as long as you can see it running.
Check for oil in the water and pushing the water up in the header tank with the cap off, usual headgasket signs really.
Coscast head also isn't a total guarantee of ok-ness, as my locost engine was a coscast and started getting oil in the water. Pretty sure it was
the gasket from when the engine had stood as it was fine when it was in the donor calibra (it was my mates road car!), but I had a spare recon coscast
head so just swapped that when I did the gasket to make sure, seeing as it was just before SVA!
If you do struggle, drop me a u2u, I do have various heads in various states of repair. Unfortunately I have no blocks spare at the mo though.
PS yep the porous head is usually completely repairable, basically sleeving a head bolt hole where the drilling gets very close to the waterways.
[Edited on 6/11/07 by NS Dev]
^ i'm sure you will have the odd u2u about this! like i said before, the calibra engine from the one being broken has already gone, but when i
dropped my axle off for welding one of the guys there mentioned a vauxhall engine a mate of his had spare. I'll ask him tomorrow. I'm
planning on getting any engine stripped and rebuilt, so hopefully won't be a problem, and i'm happier that the heads can be repaired if a
problem hopefully it'll be fine, its just something i didn't think i'd have to think about, and it'll cost more than i thought
it would