ashg
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| posted on 25/3/14 at 07:09 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by kingster996
Thanks Ali - only had a go in a Caterham (sigma engined) so far - loved it.
My aim is for a mix of Sunday blasts (with or without mates), sunny runs with the missus and the odd track day. Long trips not really planned, but
wouldn't be out of the question as I have a few mates who said "you must do Stelvio Pass with us when it's built!" - so you
never know - although no intention of fitting any wet gear.
if your only experience is a sigma powered caterham, i can whole heartedly say you will be very disappointed with the performance/weight/balance of a
bog standard pinto. the zetec will get you much much closer to the caterham experience.
if your using one donor plus the zetec you will easily get age related so your only other extra obstacle is to pass an emissions test that the zetec
should easily pass anyway! fit the zetec use the standard ford management get it through the iva (emissions are easy with a cat and for ecu) then
stick throttle bodies and an after market ecu on it later if you want it to go faster.
i built with a pinto then pulled it out a year later. At the time i thought it was the correct thing to do but in hindsight it was a waste of time.
i ended up fitting a saab engine into my car, its emissions are lower than the pinto as its a newer engine so it easily passes emissions even at the
stricter limit.
if your planning to do euro trips consider this. what's the chances of finding zetec related parts half way up a mountain? and what's
the chance of finding a crappy 100 year old pinto bit? my experience of european motoring is that motorfactors are useless and in most places near
non existent. in an emergancy situation dealers being the no1 option only carry most parts for current models and a couple previous not 1980's
sierras (excluding the uk who seem to carry parts for centuries)
Anything With Tits or Wheels Will cost you MONEY!!
Haynes Roadster (Finished)
Exocet (Finished & Sold)
New Project (Started)
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CosKev3
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| posted on 25/3/14 at 07:21 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by kingster996
Afaik pre aug 95 no cat. Post aug 95 cat.
Ah I can see the way round it now,its only non cat test between '92 and '95 if the tester can not identify the engine details.
http://www.motuk.co.uk/images/730_newp9.pdf
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kingster996
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| posted on 25/3/14 at 07:36 PM |
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quote:
if your planning to do euro trips consider this. what's the chances of finding zetec related parts half way up a mountain? and
what's the chance of finding a crappy 100 year old pinto bit? my experience of european motoring is that motorfactors are useless and in most
places near non existent. in an emergancy situation dealers being the no1 option only carry most parts for current models and a couple previous not
1980's sierras (excluding the uk who seem to carry parts for centuries)
European trips are bottom of the list to be honest, but point taken ref pinto.
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Not Anumber
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| posted on 25/3/14 at 07:58 PM |
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It's horses for courses.
My Indy came with a pinto which i then replaced- with a faster, rebuilt pinto; 205 block, injection head with 1mm skim + thinner head gasket, Fr32
cam, vernier pulley, .5 overbore & new pistons etc.
It was quicker than a standard one but cost a few quid to do and if I was building from scratch I would have just used an MX5 engine and box. Being
it a shorter engine it doesn't need a cut down sump and the injection/ ignition/ ecu setup from the donor can be used avoiding the need for
carbs, manifolds, aftermarket engine management, rolling road session etc. The 1.8 is 130 bhp out of the box and the door is always open for tuning
mods including turbo charging at a later stage if required.
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kingster996
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| posted on 25/3/14 at 08:15 PM |
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MX5 would be a consideration, but as it would probably not fit easily without chassis mods (gearbox width) and I have a type 9 box already, it
isn't on the shortlist for now. Unless anyone knows better 
- mind I do have a welder now hehe...
[Edited on 25/3/14 by kingster996]
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jimmyd
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| posted on 25/3/14 at 08:18 PM |
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Kingster
Can I jump on your thread and ask if you're the same kingster from the Yahoo UK VTR list. Only curious after seeing your avatar. I'm a
lurker there too.
On the engine front, I went through a similar delima and ended up using my donor CVH engine purely for IVA emissions. I most likely will upgrade to a
zest ex at some point, if I ever finish my build that is!!
J
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kingster996
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| posted on 25/3/14 at 08:20 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by jimmyd
Kingster
Can I jump on your thread and ask if you're the same kingster from the Yahoo UK VTR list. Only curious after seeing your avatar.
Yup
that's me!
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kingster996
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| posted on 25/3/14 at 08:23 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by jimmyd
I went through a similar delima and ended up using my donor CVH engine purely for IVA emissions.
I know - it is a hell of a dilemma - I keep
thinking "yeah, Pinto - makes sense!" then "Of course Zetec, only way to go" and then "Pinto for IVA, then BEC" -
they all seem like a plan at one time or other!
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ali f27
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| posted on 25/3/14 at 08:30 PM |
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Hi from what you said sounds like a nice st 170 zetec would do your job could run standard ecu for cost etc and still have chance to upgrade itbs etc
for bit more power later anyway got a couple of pinto engine mounts you can have if you go other way.
Cheers Ali
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ali f27
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| posted on 25/3/14 at 08:34 PM |
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Also dont worry about q reg makes mots really easy later on unless private no is most important thing on your list of performance upgrades.
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ali f27
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| posted on 25/3/14 at 08:38 PM |
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Just to bu77er you up have carb and manifold for few beer tokens for the pinto
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kingster996
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| posted on 25/3/14 at 08:49 PM |
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Hi Ali
Pinto bits seem to keep coming way - must be some sort of "message" - I'll have a ponder
Chris
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ragindave
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| posted on 25/3/14 at 09:05 PM |
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Pinto and Zetec Bling...
 
Pinto
 
zetec cooling
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sjmatthews
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| posted on 25/3/14 at 09:29 PM |
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Had the same dilemma myself with my pinto engined Fury. A zetec conversion c.£1000 or a Duratec = zetec x 3. In the end I've spend a few
hundred and stuck with the pinto and installed a Newman PH4 cam.
The engine makes a fabulous noise now, and the car really flies when compared to the stock engine. The pinto may be heavy and dated, but it's a
simple and bullet proof old lump, and parts are very cheap.
Depends on what you've got to spend and how fast you really want/need to go.
Steve 
I'll be in the garage dear!
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kingster996
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| posted on 25/3/14 at 10:17 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by ali f27
Also dont worry about q reg makes mots really easy later on unless private no is most important thing on your list of performance upgrades.
not worried if it is a q to be honest. Will go with whatever makes most sense or is easiest.
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kingster996
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| posted on 26/3/14 at 05:21 PM |
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The st170 could be a possible.
Assuming I get one with loom, injection, ecu, keys etc. does it need anything else to allow out to run correctly? Had a quick skim over
big_wasa's thread but wasn't that with a separate ecu and loom etc?
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alga
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| posted on 27/3/14 at 11:15 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by loggyboy
I think the key there is the TBs, they are designed for performance not economy. Stick a zetec on standard management in 7 and I would expect easy
40s at a sensible speed, possibly more.
You wish! I have a silvertop with the standard plastic intake and standard engine management, and I'm seeing 8.2-10 l/100km (~23-29 mpg), but
usually in the range 26-29 mpg during calm highway driving.
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austin man
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| posted on 27/3/14 at 11:26 PM |
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Im gettin 30 31 on a 1.8 silvertop on bike carbs and mega jolt
Life is like a bowl of fruit, funny how all the weird looking ones are left alone
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mcerd1
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| posted on 28/3/14 at 09:28 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by kingster996
ALthough I'd rather have a newer motor, there are a few things it seems the Pinto has going for it - in may case anyway - so please feel free to
shoot holes in the following:
- I already have the engine, which is from a car that did 65k miles.
- I already have a suitable exhaust system for it - albeit a bit untidy, it would probably do the job for IVA
- I already have a bonnet with a hole cut out for a Weber 32/36 carb - no carb tho as car was efi
- Assuming it is smoke-free - then IVA should be easier to pass and then good for future MOT's
I believe the engine will be OK, based on the fact that the previous owner bought a running Sierra and went to the trouble to strip it all down
for his kit (before he lost interest). However, I have not had it running, so could end up with a lemon that needs work/swapping anyway!
Decisions, decisions!
^^ that makes sense to me 
I'm going down the donor car's pinto route for IVA/MOT emissions and an age related plate and I quite like the pinto anyway
my donor came from my next door neighbour who had had it from nearly new till 151k - it then sat in a field for ~7 years slowly rotting until I got it
- gave it a battery and it started first turn of the key on the old petrol in the tank 
having said that the 1.8 blacktop zetec I had in the last tin-top was a lovely revvy engine - and focus spec 1.8 zetec's are still available as
crate or low mileage engines at good prices
also as long as you don't need a CAT for emissions then bike carbs are an option for both the zetec and pinto - much cheaper than webbers or
aftermarket EFI
-
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kingster996
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| posted on 28/3/14 at 10:44 AM |
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quote:
also as long as you don't need a CAT for emissions then bike carbs are an option for both the zetec and pinto - much cheaper than webbers
or aftermarket EFI
..and I do have a set of rather nice Mikuni RS38 Flatslides in the garage
I'll make my mind up when I sort out the engine mounts I guess!
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mcerd1
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| posted on 28/3/14 at 11:12 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by kingster996
quote:
also as long as you don't need a CAT for emissions then bike carbs are an option for both the zetec and pinto - much cheaper than webbers
or aftermarket EFI
..and I do have a set of rather nice Mikuni RS38 Flatslides in the garage
I'll make my mind up when I sort out the engine mounts I guess!
very shinny 
so all you need is a manifold (fastdan makes manifold and DIY manifold kits)
and megajolt (or similar) for the sparks as the pinto EFI dizzy is no use without the ford ECU
(but remember you need to keep the bottom half of the pinto dizzy to drive the oil pump!)
or you could get a standalone replacement dizzy (points or electronic) ideally with the vac advance removed to suit multiple carb's (this is
effectively a mechanical ignition 2D map)
but this will cost you at least the same as a 3D MegaJolt+TPS setup and MJ will also give you much better fuel economy as well as slightly better
throttle response.
also the same megajolt will run the sparks on the zetec if you swap later (you can't fit any dizzy to a zetec)
-
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kingster996
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| posted on 28/3/14 at 11:18 AM |
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If I end up going to the effort/expense of custom manifold/magajolt/dizzy etc - I think it will be for a newer engine than the pinto tbh.
But the information is very welcome - just the sort of useful nuggets I am 'compiling'
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Scuzzle
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| posted on 28/3/14 at 02:58 PM |
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I get 30-35 MPG on a 2.0 silvertop with Megajolt on bike carbs if I take it easy. Personally I think the modern multivalve engines are built to far
better tolerances than something like an old Pinto so makes more sense to fit a 2.0 blacktop to me.
Not sure about the emissions issue, because I have a 30 year old Fiesta it's not a problem however there has been talk for a while now of EU
legislation changing emission rules from the age of the car to the age of the engine, again with a 94 silvertop I should be OK but with a newer
blacktop it might be different.
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big_wasa
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| posted on 28/3/14 at 03:51 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by kingster996
The st170 could be a possible.
Assuming I get one with loom, injection, ecu, keys etc. does it need anything else to allow out to run correctly? Had a quick skim over
big_wasa's thread but wasn't that with a separate ecu and loom etc?
No oem ecu and it was £20 on ebay and the breaker often has them for this money.
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kingster996
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| posted on 28/3/14 at 04:14 PM |
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I might end up going OEM ECU route for IVA - will have a good read of your threads big_wasa...
But when I asked if it was 'separate' I meant that it was an 'unmatched' set up - ie you didn't get then all from the
same car.
I wondered if it was a problem if some ECU's need to be 'paired' with other components?
[Edited on 28/3/14 by kingster996]
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