muzchap
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| posted on 31/1/08 at 08:27 PM |
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Haha - still quoting power figures from Internet Tuners - cool 
Ok - here's the ACID test - ring them and ask them if they **GUARANTEE** that power - oh guess what, it's dependent upon specific engines,
situations yada yada.
The ELISE boys have been through all of this already - the figures quoted on the Duratecs are *WILDLY* inaccurate.
But hey - you pays your money, you takes your chances. Good luck
The 'Shawspeed' kit seems the most reliable in terms of alleged power gains - but at £3500 is not exactly a cheap option...
*AND* they all need CAMS - even to get it to 185BHP using the standard plenum - so good luck there with your £895 220hp Engine - the WEB-CON name ring
any bells 
But hey - that's my opinion - I researched this quite a bit when considering whether to stick a Duratec in my Elise. The 2.3 Turbo'd
seemed the best option - but the 2.0l in some cases struggled to produce useful power above 185ish HP - plenty of rolling roads to choose from for
proof.
For £3.5k for 230hp - you could get a Honda engine for £1k which does that out of the box standard... (Civic engine)
So good luck - 185hp ish is quick in a 7 anyway so nobody will be dissapointed - but don't believe the Internet hype! None of these *rogues*
will *guarantee* the power figures - they're like cheap speaker salesmen 100000000watts! but actually, only capabable of 20watts RMS for
consistent delivery...
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If you believe you're not crazy, whilst everybody is telling you, you are - then they are definitely wrong!
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muzchap
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| posted on 31/1/08 at 08:38 PM |
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Actually - thanks for posting this link:
http://www.webcon.co.uk/alpha/Duratec%20JR%20Flyer%20Ver1.pdf
If you look at it closely - none of them actually produce ANYWHERE near the claimed output figures. These are allegedly 'at the wheel'
figures - are they saying that :
K3190JR (standard) = 150ish (not as incorrectly labelled 194) - which given around 25hp loss through transmission = roughly 175hp
K3210JR (Fast Road) = 170ish (+25hp lost through transmission) = 195ish - this is with cams etc etc
K3220JR (Ultimate) = 180ish (+25hp lost through transmission) = 205hp - this is with cams, springs etc etc.
And this is the *BEST EVER CASE* scenario - as it's their promotional literature.
*saddended* by the crookery of these companies
Misrepresentation - wholly!
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If you believe you're not crazy, whilst everybody is telling you, you are - then they are definitely wrong!
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flak monkey
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| posted on 31/1/08 at 08:47 PM |
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That 'internet tuning company' happens to be the UK branch of Weber carbs who tend to know what they are taking about when it comes to
engine tuning etc.
I think someone got out of bed on the wrong side this morning!
You can buy a 300bhp cossie duratec for £12k if you like?
Sera
http://www.motosera.com
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muzchap
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| posted on 31/1/08 at 09:51 PM |
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Nope def right side of bed
Just get annoyed with the 'generous' figures quoted. I nearly spent £5k on a Duratec conversion on the Elise that wouldn't have got
me as much power as turboing my original engine for around £2k!
I could have been £3k down - just trying to help others avoid the same mistake
All companies are 'sellers' it's their raison d'etre to 'oversell' - we as the 'enlightened' consumers
need to understand this 
I wasn't personally attacking you Mr Flak Monkey - apologies if it came across that way
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If you believe you're not crazy, whilst everybody is telling you, you are - then they are definitely wrong!
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muzchap
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| posted on 31/1/08 at 09:51 PM |
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Nope def right side of bed
Just get annoyed with the 'generous' figures quoted. I nearly spent £5k on a Duratec conversion on the Elise that wouldn't have got
me as much power as turboing my original engine for around £2k!
I could have been £3k down - just trying to help others avoid the same mistake
All companies are 'sellers' it's their raison d'etre to 'oversell' - we as the 'enlightened' consumers
need to understand this
I wasn't personally attacking you Mr Flak Monkey - apologies if it came across that way
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If you believe you're not crazy, whilst everybody is telling you, you are - then they are definitely wrong!
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NS Dev
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| posted on 31/1/08 at 10:08 PM |
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Darren, you know what I am going to say....................
sorry if its a cracked record but quickly skirting round all the argument and crap above, have you properly considered the vauxhall route.
Its heavier than the duratec, but not much, has slightly better power potential than the duratec IN STD FORM WITH BOLT ON INDUCTION AND EXHAUST
(before I get shot down in flames) and absolutely wastes the zetec in that respect (min 25hp advantage over 2lt zetec)
Compared to the money talked on duratecs, I'd consider it if I were you!!
I know decent XE's are hard to get now but they are still out there if you are willing to buy a complete car then sell on the salvage less
engine.
I'd love a duratec in my locost, but the few kg weight advantage isn't worth the 2 grand extra cost over my XE!!!!!
......just another view from me, and I know I am stuck with an engine which is rapidly coming of age, but other than an alloy block, there is nowt
better owt there to my knowledge.................
PS, just to make sure some newbies on here don't get the wrong idea, I have run two different std vauxhall XE engines on two different rolling
roads (each engine) and recorded over 200hp at the flywheel on each occasion. In each case the engine was fitted with either 45mm parallel or 48mm
parallel throttle bodies, an ecu controlling ign and injection (mbe 956 not that it matters) and a decent 4-2-1 exhaust system. The norm was 204hp at
flywheel, 176@ wheels, 168lb ft torque.
figures recorded not quoted from a magazine.
Darren, if you are ever in Leics area, you are welcome to try out my vauxhall locost and see what you think
[Edited on 31/1/08 by NS Dev]
Retro RWD is the way forward...........automotive fabrication, car restoration, sheetmetal work, engine conversion
retro car restoration and tuning
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DarrenW
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| posted on 31/1/08 at 10:33 PM |
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Hi Nat, this thread is genuinely not for my benefit. A mate of mine is speccing up an MNR and trying to decide what to go for. Duratec route is almost
a done deal but nothing wrong with canvassing ideas and collecting some data on them.
Thanks for the offer of a run out in yours - one day id love to take you up on that.
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NS Dev
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| posted on 1/2/08 at 08:05 AM |
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ahhhh, sorry didn't read the thread properly!
In that case, if the finances are less of an issue, go for the duratec, its best in the longer run as a lot more can be done with it in the future,
the zetec is very limited by its valve position and size
Retro RWD is the way forward...........automotive fabrication, car restoration, sheetmetal work, engine conversion
retro car restoration and tuning
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DarrenW
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| posted on 1/2/08 at 10:02 AM |
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Ive just been looking at http://www.westfield-world.com/enginespecs_car.html.
Some intersting facts. Stick to the ford stable for simplicity;
Assuming 600Kg car with pinto (135kg engine) p:w is 175bhp/ton at std 105bhp. Upping this to 140 (as ive done on decent budget, at flywheel) gives
230/ton.
Fit 1600 Zetec SE, 100bhp std. Engine is only 81Kg (car now 545Kg). 180/ton std or 260/ton with bike carbs, mjlj, good exhaust etc. Power hike is
similar to pinto but weight difference makes it worth more.
Fit 2000 Zetec, 135bhp std. Engine is 115Kg. Car now 580Kg. 230/ton. Basic tune package as above gives 260/ton.
Fit 2000 Dratec, 145bhp std. Engine is 97Kg, car now 560Kg. 260/ton. Tune as above (165BHP??) gives 295/ton.
(iam aware of the plethora of other tuning ideas and specs - above is to keep it simple).
Looking at this theres not much between a zetec se and 2000 zetec. Maybe lacking a bit of torque but weight reduction could make the car a bit more
nimbler.
Overall though, cost aside, the duratec looks king and with injection (200bhp???) the ratio could be over 350bhp/ton.
Outside ford and you have some good competion from the Toyota engines and the ubiquitous XE16V.
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Jasper
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| posted on 1/2/08 at 12:23 PM |
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Or, for £1k ish get an Sr20DET Nissan engine that will come with it's own gearbox and loom, is 200bhp as standard, all ali block, can be tuned
to 280bhp for another £500 tops and be completely reliable ........ choice is yours
If you're not living life on the edge you're taking up too much room.
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NS Dev
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| posted on 2/2/08 at 01:45 PM |
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I think we were avoiding turbochargers, I dont like them and nor do a lot of others! (for a lot of reasons, not just "cos I don't"
Retro RWD is the way forward...........automotive fabrication, car restoration, sheetmetal work, engine conversion
retro car restoration and tuning
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