tegwin
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| posted on 18/5/10 at 05:37 PM |
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OT, Moving a boiler
Anyone know the definitive ins and outs of this one...
Just bought a house.... the gas boiler is in the wrong place.. (the wall its on is being removed!)
Its about 7 years old, with direct hot water.
Now obviously I can not do the gas work myself, nor would I particularly wish to.
BUT...
Can I legally move it and redo the pipework to connect it back up again when its in its new location? Once the water is connected up I can get a gas
man in to do his magic....
I am a competant person and doing the work, to me, would be very simple..... But I am curious as to the rules etc?
Also, anyone know what the rules are re- boiler and height from floor/celing?
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sucksqueezebangblow
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| posted on 18/5/10 at 05:53 PM |
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You would have to get a qualified plumber to cut off the gas and to reconnect it and check and certify your installation.
Better to Burnout than to Fade Away JET METAL ~ AndySparrow © 
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tegwin
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| posted on 18/5/10 at 05:55 PM |
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No plumber is ever going to volunteraly certify someone elses work though are they.... they will want to do it themselves to make money...
What happens if you submit a notification of work to the council... do they come inspect it for you?
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BenB
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| posted on 18/5/10 at 05:55 PM |
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Yes you can. You're not doing it for money and it's your own property so you can do it. In fact you could do your own gas work but a gas
leak can be a "bit of a pain" so I wouldn't 
I just installed my own boiler from scratch. Just got the gas man to solder up the pipes I'd laid in place (kept the wife happy there
wouldn't be any leaks and cost me peanuts).
A gas safety certificate is a good idea in case of a house insurance claim....
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MakeEverything
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| posted on 18/5/10 at 05:55 PM |
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Im doing the same thing.
In an ideal world, you would need the boiler disconnected by a gas engineer, and capped off. If you have a valve to the boiler, then you could
probably open all the doors and windows and do it yourself. Personally, id do all the copper work first, then when you come to disconnect, move, and
reconnect the boiler, you can have the gas done in a couple of hours tops, leaving you to reconnect the water etc.
I would want the boiler serviced and recommissioned at the same time.
Kindest Regards,
Richard.
...You can make it foolProof, but youll never make it Idiot Proof!...
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bob tatt
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| posted on 18/5/10 at 05:58 PM |
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it is illegal for you as an unregistered person to touch the flu or break the combustion seal in anyway. I would defo not sign anyone elses work off
for two reasons by the time you have double checked everything you might as well have done the job myself, dont forget the resposobility for that gas
appliance then rests with who ever signs it off making them liable if something goes wrong.
Annd secondly why should joe bloggs be doing work like that then asking me to bob in and sign it off for not much money when it costs proper
registered gas fitters thousands to become and remain registered.
Its upto you but any gas fitter with half a brain willl not sign off anybody elses work as its shooting yourself in the foot big time.
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tegwin
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| posted on 18/5/10 at 06:04 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by bob tatt
it is illegal for you as an unregistered person to touch the flu or break the combustion seal in anyway. I would defo not sign anyone elses work off
for two reasons by the time you have double checked everything you might as well have done the job myself, dont forget the resposobility for that gas
appliance then rests with who ever signs it off making them liable if something goes wrong.
Annd secondly why should joe bloggs be doing work like that then asking me to bob in and sign it off for not much money when it costs proper
registered gas fitters thousands to become and remain registered.
Its upto you but any gas fitter with half a brain willl not sign off anybody elses work as its shooting yourself in the foot big time.
True.... But would they come in, disconnect the gas, move the boiler, re-connect the gas and sign it off if I did the wet side of things?
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bob tatt
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| posted on 18/5/10 at 06:09 PM |
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me personally no dont take this personally as im sure you are switched on enough to be able to solder some pipes together, it just in the past i have
experience this type of job and 9 times out of ten something gets done wrong and takes time for me to put right. Im sure someone local to you will do
it as there is always someone who will do such work. But if they are going to do all the other work ie move it and sort the gas side out they might as
well do the lot then they can commision it at the same time rather than waiting for the wet side to be connected then coming back to re commision.
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tegwin
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| posted on 18/5/10 at 06:25 PM |
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Its just so frustrating.... doesnt help that I have never ever employed a trades person that does a good job.... equally frustrating knowing you
are paying someone to do a job you could easily do yourself to better standards! Im sure there are good trades people out there, but I have not
seen one! Such is the world we live in eh...
[Edited on 18/5/10 by tegwin]
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jacko
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| posted on 18/5/10 at 06:50 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by tegwin
Its just so frustrating.... doesnt help that I have never ever employed a trades person that does a good job.... equally frustrating knowing you
are paying someone to do a job you could easily do yourself to better standards! Im sure there are good trades people out there, but I have not
seen one! Such is the world we live in eh...
[Edited on 18/5/10 by tegwin]
Here here
If you are doing it for your self you always do a better job 
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Ben_Copeland
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| posted on 18/5/10 at 06:53 PM |
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Interested in this, as i've got to move the boiler at some point...
Ben
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deanwelch
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| posted on 18/5/10 at 07:01 PM |
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if you are competant to do it all just do it.........boiler is 7 years old anyway so all paperwork is long gone and boiler is getting near the end of
its life anyway.......if you sell the solicitor won't need cert as we have only being doing them for new boilers for the last 3
years..........and advise wanted just ask..
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JoelP
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| posted on 18/5/10 at 07:04 PM |
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If you are sure you can do it yourself, just do it. You will never get caught out, as there arent really any proceedures in place anywhere to detect
illegal work unless the householder reports it, which obviously you wouldnt. However if something goes wrong, you're in the s***. So if you are
sure you know what you're doing, all good.
If its an unvented cylinder there's also that aspect of it thats illegal for you too touch.
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owelly
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| posted on 18/5/10 at 07:09 PM |
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I fitted a new gas fire with back boiler. I also plumbed-in a gas hob to replace the electric one. This was about ten years ago and since then,
I've serviced the fire and boiler a few times. Not a problem for me skills wise but when I came to sell the house (which completed last week.
HURRAH!) I was expecting a shed-load of aggro. But no. In the various forms to be completed, the questions were asked "Has the property had any
recent gas appliances fitted?", answered 'yes'. "Was the work carried out by a registered gas fitted?"
'No'.
But nothing more was mentioned.
Although the HIP pack asked "has there been any recent work been carried-out by a CORGI/Gas Safe engineer?". Well, no. There has been work
carried-out, but not by a proper gassy guy so the answer was 'No'!!
I've just had word that my offer has been accepted on a wreck of a house up the road. I can't see me rushing to pay a gas man to work
there either!
http://www.ppcmag.co.uk
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JoelP
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| posted on 18/5/10 at 07:12 PM |
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lol, you know no one ever reads those forms then
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BenB
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| posted on 18/5/10 at 07:15 PM |
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Well all I can say is I installed my own boiler and bunged the local gas man £200 to connect up the pipes and give us a gas safety cert and he was a
happy bunny and so was I. Works a treat....
So if you know how to do it then fine.
I can also concur with the "do it properly, do it yourself" approach. One gas engineer was trying to persuade me (until I let on I knew a
little bit about it) that it was a 50 metre run from the front of the house to the back. Now this is a 2 bed cottage. I did it in 14M of 28mm.....
When they can't estimate distance (or are just prepared to rip me off from the beginning) it doesn't give me much confidence that
they'll do a good job....
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bob tatt
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| posted on 18/5/10 at 07:16 PM |
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Its just so frustrating.... doesnt help that I have never ever employed a trades person that does a good job.... equally frustrating knowing you are
paying someone to do a job you could easily do yourself to better standards! Im sure there are good trades people out there, but I have not seen one!
Such is the world we live in eh
it depends how you go about finding a trades person, to many people go with the cheapest quote and you have to ask your self why is it cheaper because
the job will probably be rushed and not to a good standard.
go on recomendation and hey are usually very good, i have traded on my own for nearly ten years now never advertised all recocomendations and i have
very few problems with jobs usually a faulty part thats caused it. The reason this annoys me so much is it takes gas safety out of the hands of the
people that are trained in that area as well as removing work from them, look at it another way how would everyone like it if your boss turned round
and said right ive got some unpaid unskilled worker in to do 90% of your job all you have to do is sign it off as your own and your not getting full
pay this week.
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SteveWalker
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| posted on 18/5/10 at 08:39 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by bob tatt
it is illegal for you as an unregistered person to touch the flu or break the combustion seal in anyway.
Apparently it's not - it is only illegal to be doing it for gain without being registered, as the legislation only requires you to be competent.
Now of course when it all goes wrong, it's somewhat difficult to prove that it wasn't your fault and that you were competent 
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SteveWalker
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| posted on 18/5/10 at 09:04 PM |
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Just another thought, if you involve anyone in getting certification and doing it "properly," might there be a problem that once
you've removed the boiler, refitting it in a different location is suddenly classed as "installing" a boiler and you might get
caught out by the building regulations?
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iank
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| posted on 18/5/10 at 09:06 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by SteveWalker
quote:
Originally posted by bob tatt
it is illegal for you as an unregistered person to touch the flu or break the combustion seal in anyway.
Apparently it's not - it is only illegal to be doing it for gain without being registered, as the legislation only requires you to be
competent. Now of course when it all goes wrong, it's somewhat difficult to prove that it wasn't your fault and that you were
competent
The definition of "competent" hasn't been tested in court afaik. I suspect the judge's first question would be 'please
show me the certificates showing you've passed the relevant gas safety training courses' which seems the most obvious demonstration of
competence to me. A QC may disagree but I'm betting that's the line the insurance company who doesn't want to pay to rebuild the
house will take.
What it should mean is that someone who's been a trained gas fitter with all the relevant papers can change career but still legally do work for
mates/himself with no problems.
--
Never argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience.
Anonymous
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bob tatt
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| posted on 18/5/10 at 09:12 PM |
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building regs only covers installing a new appliance and not moving an existing one so no problem there.
steve you are correct that it is not illegal if you are not doing it for gain however if your house gets damaged because of a gas excape or even worse
some one is killed because you did nt want to pay somebody to do the work properly how would that make you feel, would you be able to sleep well at
night i doubt it.
i have a lot of respect for many people on this site however it infuartaes me when some times there is a very gunho attitude to some thing as critical
as gas safety can i ask anyone who is reading this how to test for gas tightness and what tools are reguired to do this . Also when recommjsioning the
aplliance how many of the diy fraternity have a flu gas analyzer and the skills to operate it and interprite the readings to be able to determine if
the appliance is safe to use.
At the end of the day its upto the individual to decide if they are happy to put the lives of there nearest and dearest in danger to save a few
pounds.
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tegwin
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| posted on 18/5/10 at 09:18 PM |
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Bob.... I am not proposing I touch the gas... its only the water side of things I will do.... leaking wet pipes I can deal with... leaking gas pipes I
cant!!
What are the regs then with regards to pressurized heating systems? Are pressure vessels another one of those "no go" areas unless you
have the magic certificate?
[Edited on 18/5/10 by tegwin]
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adam1985
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| posted on 18/5/10 at 09:52 PM |
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This one always makes me laugh if your asking how you do it you shouldn't be doing it. how can you call yourself competant?
It's not just about checking the pipework that you have moved how do you know that 7 year old boiler is still safe are the seals still intact is
the flue still performing do you have the correct pressures there are many checks you have to do to ensure it's safe it only takes one thing not
working and your in trouble this is why there are so many co poisioning and gas explosion incidents
[Edited on 18/5/10 by adam1985]
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tegwin
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| posted on 18/5/10 at 09:59 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by adam1985
This one always makes me laugh if your asking how you do it you shouldn't be doing it. how can you call yourself competant?
Im not asking advice on how to do the job though am I? Simply asking on the legalities of doing it... very big difference!
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adam1985
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| posted on 18/5/10 at 10:08 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by tegwin
quote:
Originally posted by adam1985
This one always makes me laugh if your asking how you do it you shouldn't be doing it. how can you call yourself competant?
Im not asking advice on how to do the job though am I? Simply asking on the legalities of doing it... very big difference!
sorry tegwin that wasn't aimed at you if you want to save money what you are tring to do is the best way to go about it my advice to you is try
to get a reccomended installer then make it clear when you ring up what your intensions are then they can let you know if there interested in doing it
before wasting there's and your time looking at the job
[Edited on 18/5/10 by adam1985]
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