Steve Hignett
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| posted on 17/8/10 at 09:53 PM |
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Advice wanted:- Has anyone done / used one of the D.I.Y air-con refill kits
Hi all,
As above, I know it's not a huge amount of money to get it refilled at Halfords etc, but it'smoney I can't justify at the moment to
be honest!
So, has anyone used the refill kits
(For e.g. on ebay) and if
so did they work or was it a waste of money?
Cheers in advance,
Steve
Oh, it's for a 2001 BMW 320d SE
[Edited on 17/8/10 by Steve Hignett]
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mookaloid
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| posted on 17/8/10 at 09:59 PM |
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Tried it on 3 cars and I have now realised that usually the car has lost its gas for a reason.............. which isn't fixed by a tin of gas
from ebay 
So my advice - which I will be following myself in future - is to take it to someone who will identify the fault which has caused the gas to escape in
the first place and then get them to fill it once the fault is fixed.
"That thing you're thinking - it wont be that."
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jlparsons
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| posted on 17/8/10 at 10:01 PM |
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I was trying to buy one recently, I heard legislation has recently changed to make them effectively illegal to sell. I know that if you attach them
to the wrong side of the compressor (the high pressure side) they'll take your face off. I've also heard that getting the wrong mix of
refrigerant and oil can shorten the life of the system.
Having said that, a lot of folk have also said it's easy to do with half a brain and fine for a top up!
Any resemblance to real persons, living or dead is purely coincidental. Some assembly required. Batteries not included. Contents may settle during
shipment. Use only as directed. No other warranty expressed or implied. Do not use while operating a motor vehicle or heavy equipment. Subject to
approval, terms and conditions apply. Apply only to affected area. For recreational use only. All models over 18 years of age. No user-serviceable
parts inside. Subject to change. As seen on TV. One size fits all. May contain nuts. Slippery when wet. For office use only. Edited for television.
Keep cool; process promptly.
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iceman26
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| posted on 17/8/10 at 10:02 PM |
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do you have a licence to use or handle that bottle of gas
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stevebubs
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| posted on 17/8/10 at 10:05 PM |
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find a decent specialist....
Dad had his 323 regassed a few years ago. Before the specialist would give him a full top up, they insisted on just adding a little, testing it and
then waiting a week or 2 to see if the effectiveness decreased over time...it didn't, so they gave him a full top up and took off the cost of
the partial one...
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austin man
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| posted on 17/8/10 at 10:07 PM |
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I used one of the Halford one with a sealant in it filled it last year and its still spot on. Previously I had it filled by a Halfords staff member
and it lasted 6 months
Life is like a bowl of fruit, funny how all the weird looking ones are left alone
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UncleFista
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| posted on 17/8/10 at 10:07 PM |
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They're illegal to sell in the UK since April 1st.
Give Halfords a ring and tell 'em you've seen the recharge offered at half price (usually £50) if it's a bit slow they'll do
it for £25.
At least they did for me and a couple of friends...
Tony Bond / UncleFista
Love is like a snowmobile, speeding across the frozen tundra.
Which suddenly flips, pinning you underneath.
At night the ice-weasels come...
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RazMan
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| posted on 17/8/10 at 10:20 PM |
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Kwik Fit [shudder] did my Soarer for £50 last year and that included a thorough test of the whole system - gotta be better than a tin of gas and a
gamble 
Cheers,
Raz
When thinking outside the box doesn't work any more, it's time to build a new box
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Benzine
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| posted on 17/8/10 at 10:23 PM |
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Have you tried 4 x 60 air con? V locost ^_^
[Edited on 17/8/10 by Benzine]
The mental gymnastics a landlord will employ to justify immoral actions is clinically fascinating. Just because something is legal doesn't make
it moral.
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splitrivet
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| posted on 17/8/10 at 11:41 PM |
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If the systems full of air it'll want vacuum pump on it otherwise your wasting your money and you'd be better off getting a pro do it (not
that sort of pro) properly.
Best bet is take the cap off of the suction side inlet valve (thicker pipe) open the valve and see whether there is positive pressure if so your in
luck and a DIY can of gas might work providing everything else is working OK. If not take it to a specialist.
No it wont take your face off.
Best bet is run the AC for 5mins a week this keeps the compressor shaft seal lubed (the main cause of leaks)
If your passing thru Stoke Steve give me a u2u Ive a bottle of gas and gauges which I lent out to a guy few months back and I'll try and get
them back.
Cheers,
Bob
[Edited on 17/8/10 by splitrivet]
[Edited on 17/8/10 by splitrivet]
I used to be a Werewolf but I'm alright nowwoooooooooooooo
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adithorp
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| posted on 18/8/10 at 08:33 AM |
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If there is some presure left in the system (therefore not a big leak) then you might be OK to use one. The problem (apart from the legalities) is
that they also contain oil and if there's already enough oil in the system adding more won't do it any good.
Beware of any "I got it done for £XX" quotes as the gas has tripled in price in the last couple of months plus everyone who works on
aircon has had to be certified and go on an expensive course to meet the new regs.
adrian
ps u2u sent steve.
"A witty saying proves nothing" Voltaire
http://jpsc.org.uk/forum/
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Stott
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| posted on 18/8/10 at 10:41 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by UncleFista
They're illegal to sell in the UK since April 1st.
Give Halfords a ring and tell 'em you've seen the recharge offered at half price (usually £50) if it's a bit slow they'll do
it for £25.
At least they did for me and a couple of friends...
They're not illegal, it was just a myth I think that it was going to go that way. In the end they put a surcharge on the bottles to make sure
you return them to the shop for proper disposal after use, as this was the main focus of the legislation as far as I'm aware.
The problem is the surcharge is about £10 and some bottles hold enough for 2 charges, so what do you do, keep half the gas for next year, or give it
back with some left and get your tenner back?
Link to Halfords still selling them
Personally I had mine gassed and dyed up the road for £40 which seems about the going rate around here, still doesn't feckin work
though.............
EDIT: mine was £40, which is the same as shed loads of garages advertise it for around here, and that was less than a fortnight ago. There are still
people around who do it for £30 cash if you know anyone in the trade
[Edited on 18/8/10 by Stott]
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Irony
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| posted on 18/8/10 at 10:47 AM |
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Erm this is locost builders, surely opening a window is the best option!
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Mr Whippy
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| posted on 18/8/10 at 11:16 AM |
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Interesting thread
my Zafira with its huge windows is like a green house in the sun and the aircon is hardly cooling at all.
Noticed that some of the cans at halfords also have a die in them to identify leaks so may be worth a go. Depends on whats actually wrong, its easy to
blame the gas but there's quite a bit to the systems and its worth checking out it all before adding gas
Fame is when your old car is plastered all over the internet
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Stott
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| posted on 18/8/10 at 12:01 PM |
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Yeah they can be tricky, but often the gas can be the cheapest item before replacing the pressure sensor, temp sensors or compressor, or god forbid,
the a/c ecu or fan control module, gulp...............
that was a lot of "or"s 
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adithorp
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| posted on 18/8/10 at 12:36 PM |
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It's now (since July 1st) illegal to sell the (bulk) gas bottles to anyone who is not certifed to use it. It's also illegal for anyone who
isn't certified, to work on aircon systems.
I'm not 100% on this bit but... Some of the small airosol bottles fell foul of the regs as they didn't self seal once open but vented the
gas to atmosphere. How they get around the certification issue, I don't know.
There's a big difference between what you get from an "Air-con regas". Some will just top up the remaining gas and take your cash,
where others will test for leaks, drain, flush and refill and recheck for leaks.
"...Personally I had mine gassed and dyed up the road for £40 which seems about the going rate around here, still doesn't feckin work
though............. "
Which do you suppose you got?
adrian
"A witty saying proves nothing" Voltaire
http://jpsc.org.uk/forum/
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Stott
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| posted on 19/8/10 at 07:58 AM |
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It got evacuated, 120g was pulled out so it was low, went on a vac for 8 mins, no leaks detected, then had the 550g put in along with dye, so it was a
proper job, from a proper a/c place, on a proper a/c machine.
atb
Stott
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adithorp
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| posted on 19/8/10 at 08:14 AM |
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OK, sorry about that. It is a problem we come across a lot though with differing interpretations of an air-con service/re-gas, so worth bearing in
mind for others.
Have you found the problem? Is the "not working" the pump not running or pump running but not getting cold or did it work and then fail
again.
adrian
"A witty saying proves nothing" Voltaire
http://jpsc.org.uk/forum/
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Peteff
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| posted on 19/8/10 at 09:19 AM |
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It costs £40 to have mine done and it usually lasts around 18 months. He puts it on the machine which then goes through a program emptying, filtering
and refilling. I can tell when it starts to lose gas as the compressor will not kick in, which is to save the seals from running unlubricated and
wearing out.
yours, Pete
I went into the RSPCA office the other day. It was so small you could hardly swing a cat in there.
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Stott
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| posted on 19/8/10 at 09:54 AM |
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Ok, if you know about a/c then I'd be glad of some help.
It's a fabia vrs 04, a/c stopped working, can't remember when but a few months back and was a sudden loss rather than inefficiency
followed by failure.
The refrigerant level is ok and there are no leaks apparent, I've changed the hi/lo switch as this is apparently a common one, along with the
evap temp sensor as I got this cheap on trade (£10 ish).
None of this has got it working though I'm afraid. The car has a variable displacement pump so apparently doesn't have a clutch. The
centre of the pulley remains stationary (but is not siezed). There is one 2 wire plug to the compressor, I can measure a voltage of 11.9+/- 0.2 on the
loom side of this with the a/c on and the engine running, measuring the compressor gives 11.9ohms from memory (that was last week, it might have been
16 or 19 ohms actually, but either way it's not short or o/c)
Supplying the compressor with the 12v externally produces an audible click from the compressor which I'm told in the N280 variable displacement
valve moving, although people tell me they still click when faulty.
The car doesn't cool when the compressor is powered externally either.
All the while, the centre of the comp pulley is stationary. I read somewhere that it should be linked by a cush drive of sorts to the outer, which
fails if the compressor siezes to prevent the belt being thrown off. I don't know if this is true.
One more thing, the rad fans don't kick in when the a/c is selected, but I don't ever remember them doing so despite the a/c working for
the past 2 years.
Any help appreciated, ta
Stott
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adithorp
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| posted on 19/8/10 at 01:15 PM |
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I'm no expert and although I've worked on more than a few I'm not familar with the Variable Displacement pumps. However from your
description I'd be looking at the pulley/spindle.
"A witty saying proves nothing" Voltaire
http://jpsc.org.uk/forum/
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Stott
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| posted on 19/8/10 at 03:50 PM |
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Yeah it looks a bit like the coupling bit may have let go, I'm still trying to find whether this is replaceable, if it is I might source a comp
off a scrap car and swap it over to save the cost of regassing mine yet again
Cheers anyway
Stott
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splitrivet
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| posted on 19/8/10 at 06:23 PM |
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Has it been on a set of gauges whats the high/low pressure.
Although Its was a few years ago when I was doing fridge/Air con it sounds like if the compressor is turning the valve reeds are shot.
Simple test run the A/C for a few minutes if the discharge pipe is warm not hot and gas charge is right its not pumping and the reeds are nacked.
Cheers,
Bob
[Edited on 19/8/10 by splitrivet]
I used to be a Werewolf but I'm alright nowwoooooooooooooo
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Stott
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| posted on 20/8/10 at 08:57 AM |
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I don't think it's quite so simple with this type of compressor, it's a swash plate variable displacement type, reading into this,
the ecu puts square wave dc down to the compressor at varying frequency which controls the amount of gas that is pumped. So at the moment it could be
not asking for any to be pumped i.e on full bypass due to perhaps the fan module not starting the fans, or for some other reason.
But it would appear that the problem lies with the compressor as like I said the centre of the pulley (which I believe is bolted straight to the
compressor shaft) is stationary, and being a clutchless type, it can only mean the little rubber bits connecting the inner and outer pulleys have gone
walkies.
The pulley looks exactly like this one:
LINK
but that whole middle but stays still, which can't be right surely?
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