bigpig
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| posted on 3/2/11 at 06:52 PM |
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Help on used car sales problem
Oh look the words "used car" and "sales" in the same sentence :-(
I've been having a bit of a non fluffy time having bought a 2nd hand MG TF 160 (2003 with 71K miles). Its had persistent over heating problems
from new when in traffic or parked up. The dealer has put a new rad on (the old one was blocked) but its still heating up (done the head gasket check
and that is fine). I've had to car for now about 3 weeks of which I've only had it in my possession for about 4 of them.
After speaking with consumer advice, they said I need professional advice (not a psychiatrist for buying a british car) that would state, it would be
unreasonable to expect a 2003 MG with 71k miles to overheat in stationary traffic else I'm fubar'ed. Apparently owners club or enthusiasts
is not enough and I need a professional mechanic before I can ask for a refund.
As the font of all knowledge on things with wheels, anyone here care to give me advice.
I get the horrid feeling that this is going to go pear shaped and I'll end up with a forever pre IVA MK and a non running normal car.
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mackei23b
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| posted on 3/2/11 at 07:04 PM |
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Did you buy it from a trader or dealer?
Have a look through the sale of goods act.
I'm sure some of the motoring advisory bodies have some definitions of reasonable as well that you may want to search for.
Cheers
Ian
[Edited on 3/2/11 by mackei23b]
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rusty nuts
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| posted on 3/2/11 at 07:46 PM |
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Could be a stat problem or possibly got an air lock ? There is a bleeder on the top of the rad, one behind the panel in the spare wheel well for the
heater and one on a metel pipe above the bell housing. Best of luck with the dealer
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GMPMotorsport
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| posted on 3/2/11 at 08:10 PM |
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Could get the RAC to do a mechanical inspection on it, not sure what it costs though.
www.gmpdevelopments.co.uk
www.gmpmotorsport.co.uk
ARDS Instructer.
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rallyingden
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| posted on 3/2/11 at 08:13 PM |
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If the rad was blocked then there will be other problems within the block Did they give it a good flushing out with cleaner prior to fitting second
rad.
RD
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bigpig
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| posted on 3/2/11 at 08:22 PM |
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HI, thanks for the help so far
Originally they found during the initial inspection that the temperature was a bit variable. They changed the thermostat to fix this. It was then more
stable they said. They flushed the coolant during the rad change to be on the safe side incase there were any lumps of crud around.
They said they did bleed the system, and the heater does get nice and hot which is what it should do when there are no airlocks. I suspect its a
combination of the rad and an intermittent fan (I'm not sure if it was spinning up when the engine was off).
Its from a trader. I read through the Sale of Goods act and our local authority web site, then contacted Consumer Advice. The Consumer Advice line was
a lot less helpful than the sale of goods act implies, for instance SoG says "a reasonable person", but assistant said the burden of proof
was on me to prove that it was unreasonable for a car to exhibit that sort of fault (in deed he said in his opinion it was unreasonable, but a
professional mechanic would need to back that up).
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sonic
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| posted on 3/2/11 at 08:43 PM |
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I am in the motor trade and if it was me i would take the car back and say it is not fit for purpose,a good trader would either offer a refund but
should be given the oppertunity to put the car right first.
If you have done the above and the guy isnt playing ball then you only have one coarse of action and that it to take him to a small claims court etc
which i am afraid to say will take forever and cost you money.this trader will know that and bargain on the fact you won't and just fix it
yourself,trading standards are a waste of space unless alot of people have complained already.
As for the car problem those engines suffer fron the same problem as the old Rover V8 etc they overheat and everybody thinks the head gasket is the
problem and just replace it with an uprated one,the real reason is the liners in the block move and wear through the head gasket,who checked if the
head gasket is ok? if it was the dealer he has probably realised it is the liners and washed his hands of it as it will require the liners pinning or
a new engine £££'s
If you take the radiator filler cap of and run the engine is the water in the header tank bubbling and rising when you rev it up?
Sorry to spread doom and gloom but it is the fact's
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RAYLEE29
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| posted on 3/2/11 at 08:54 PM |
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How has the head gasket been tested?
It either needs to be pressure tested/leak down test or at least the cooling system needs to be checked for combustion gases.
Is the trader willing to continue till the car is fixed or have they given up on it?
what do you want to happen next
get the car fixed or have your money back?
have you spoken to the trader and told him what you want?
it should be obvious to anyone that the overheating is not acceptable.
if you dont get anywhere with the trader get a solicitor on board.
good luck hope you get it sorted
Ray
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Daddylonglegs
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| posted on 3/2/11 at 09:11 PM |
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Not sure about the legalities etc. but as far as the overheating goes, is it losing water at all? If not, then I would try running it from cold with
the filler cap off and add water if needed to keep it at the level. That should definitely get rid of any air locks. Other than that I am not much
help I'm afraid
BTW, you said "I've had to car for now about 3 weeks of which I've only had it in my possession for about 4 of them" how did
you manage to have the car in your possession longer than you had it for?  
It looks like the Midget is winning at the moment......
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bigpig
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| posted on 3/2/11 at 09:18 PM |
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Hi,
Its not loosing water in any way. A sniffer test reveals the gasket is good, the usual head gasket symptoms of creeping up temperature are not
occuring. Its running fine out at motorway speeds and the temperature is good, its just after driving and then trying to reverse up my drive that its
being a so and so, stuck in traffic or when parked up. As soon as you are up to a reasonable bit of speed (since the rad was changed, about 20 mph)
the temperature drops down again. Before the rad was changed it needed to get up to at least 30mph to start cooling again.
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bigpig
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| posted on 3/2/11 at 09:20 PM |
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Hi,
Just to add, he said he wished it was the head gasket as he could easily rectify that. This one seems to have got him baffled.
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Davegtst
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| posted on 3/2/11 at 09:55 PM |
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Has anyone checked the rad fan? If it's boiling up in trafic this may be the cause.
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mangogrooveworkshop
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| posted on 3/2/11 at 10:36 PM |
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There is a clue in what they call the type of engine.......K series........ its the first letter in the word kettel.
Should have got an MX5.........at least when it dies you can build a 7 out of it
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mrwibble
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| posted on 3/2/11 at 10:45 PM |
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aside from the technical problems, i bought a rover which had problems with the coil pack. I had it for 4 weeks 3 of which it spent in the local rover
garage (bought second hand from ford) due to the parts having to come from india. ford wanted me to pay for the repair, but after getting very shirty
in the ford dealership, causing a bit of a scene in front of other customers they paid for the repair. I cited the sale of goods act 1979
"Implied terms about quality or fitness.E+W+S+N.I..(1)Except as provided by this section and section 15 below and subject to any other
enactment, there is no implied [F10term] about the quality or fitness for any particular purpose of goods supplied under a contract of sale..
[F11(2)Where the seller sells goods in the course of a business, there is an implied term that the goods supplied under the contract are of
satisfactory quality..
(2A)For the purposes of this Act, goods are of satisfactory quality if they meet the standard that a reasonable person would regard as satisfactory,
taking account of any description of the goods, the price (if relevant) and all the other relevant circumstances..
(2B)For the purposes of this Act, the quality of goods includes their state and condition and the following (among others) are in appropriate cases
aspects of the quality of goods—.
(a)fitness for all the purposes for which goods of the kind in question are commonly supplied,.
(b)appearance and finish,.
(c)freedom from minor defects,.
(d)safety, and.
"
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1979/54
as not of satisfactory quality, or durability.
to my mind unless they told you the car had this problem before you purchased it is their problem to sort, or the contract is void, whether they see
it like that is irellevent as long as you dont mind being a bit of a c*nt to get ur own way.
[Edited on 3/2/11 by mrwibble]
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Ninehigh
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| posted on 4/2/11 at 09:25 PM |
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Proof? Take any other car at that mileage. I've got 2 now and neither of them overheat for no reason. NO car should be expected to do this at
71k miles...
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gazza285
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| posted on 5/2/11 at 07:20 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Davegtst
Has anyone checked the rad fan? If it's boiling up in trafic this may be the cause.
Nail head. It only does it when stood because there's no air going through the rad. Fix it before it does drop the liners though, else it will
be a basket case.
DO NOT PUT ON KNOB OR BOLLOCKS!
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sonic
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| posted on 5/2/11 at 08:28 PM |
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Just a thought and you may not be able to tell without removing it but has the water pump been changed recently?
I have just had problems with a 3 series BMW in that the majority of water pumps have plastic impellers fitted and on the bm one they snap off the
shaft and are Sh-t,the pulley on the outside is fine and you cannot tell without removing it.
The one on the BMW lasted 2 weeks and the only one i could find which was all steel is from BMW themselves.
If it has gone it won't be circulating water.
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