samwilliams
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| posted on 5/2/06 at 12:37 PM |
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Starter motor and electric problems
We've been trying to install a new valencia distributor and coil, and have connected up everything to where we think it should go. A couple of
problems/queries have arisen though.
1. We replaced the previous coil with the new 12v one. The old one was also 12v, but only receiving 9v anyway. There seems to be a connection from the
coil to a little black box (see picture). This black box has 4 connections. One to the starter motor, one to the coil (we think), one to the battery
(presumably) and one empty. Disconnecting the one that goes to the coil, we can now get 12v through it. Additionally, if you connect an earth lead
from the coil to the distributor (in addition to the one on the multi-plug), it reduces the voltage to 9v. Is there any problems from not having this
additional earth connection, and not having it plugged into the little black box.
2. The starter motor is now not getting any power, and won't turn over. From the aforementioned black box, there is 12v going in on the battery
lead when the key is in position 1 or start. The lead that would go to the coil has 12v going through only when starting (nothing at other times). The
one to the starter motor has nothing at all. What does this box do, and how do we fix it?!
I'd really appreciate any answers. I've made the mistake of trying to do stuff to my car at someone else's house, and need to get
home at some point!
Thank you very much. Please help!
Sam
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hector
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| posted on 5/2/06 at 01:22 PM |
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think the box your on about is the ballast resistor it helps in that it gives you a good spark on reduced voltage (9v) as the starter motor take a lot
of power from the battery.
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hector
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| posted on 5/2/06 at 01:27 PM |
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hi again
just read the bit in burton power mag and its says
using a non ballasted coil would mean that you are running a 12v coil on a 9v feed resulting in a weak spark BUt you can use this coil if u remove the
ballast resistor
hope this helps
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samwilliams
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| posted on 5/2/06 at 01:38 PM |
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Now changed my mind about that black box. Now think it's the starter solenoid. Does that sound right? If it never gives any power to the starter
motor, does that mean its broken and I need a new one? Anything I'd need to look for with the new one?
As for the 12v/9v coil feed. It's got a 12v feed at the moment. Is there any way there could be something wrong, or should I just accept that
it's working and move on?
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britishtrident
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| posted on 5/2/06 at 01:53 PM |
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The box is most likely a by-pass relay for the ballast ressitor that feeds the coil 12 volts when the starter is activated.
Fords had ballasted coils because they had major cold start problems.
From the car you got the distributer from you should also have got the coil and section of wiring loom from the coil to the distributer. The coil from
a points ignition car is not suitable for use with the valencia distributer the magnetic reluctance is different.
The coil from a Metro with the old A Plus engine is also suitable.
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samwilliams
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| posted on 5/2/06 at 02:12 PM |
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With the black box, we've since worked out that the wire I originally thought went to the coil, doesn't. It gives a current when the key
is turned to start, so I presume it's from the starting switch?
If that box is not working (i.e. there's nothing going to the starter motor, whatever is turned on), does it need replacing? What is the correct
replacement?
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flyingkiwi
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| posted on 5/2/06 at 03:07 PM |
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By the sounds of it mate, your about the same stage as me, I'm just about to plump in the dizzy (if I can work out these wires) and sort out the
starter motor wiring.
First question - Are you running a full sierra loom and fuse box? For my starter circuit theres a red/black wire that goes from the ignition switch
down to the solinoid on the starter. There's a big red cable from the starter to the battery and a black earth from the starter to the battery.
There's no input from the ignition side of things and the car did run quite nicely on this setup (with points dizzy).
With the ignition circuit, I've got a black wire that runs from a soldered joint (Think it comes from fuse 22) down to the coil and then on to
the dizzy (not sure how yet)
dunno if this helps at all,
chris
It Runs!!!!! Bring on the SVA!
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flyingkiwi
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| posted on 5/2/06 at 03:13 PM |
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Just thought of another thing, to test if your starter is working grab a nice long bit of spare wire, stick one end on the battery, and looking at the
starter motor you should see a (what looks like a camera film pot stuck on the side of the starter motor) solinoid. at the front of the solinoid will
be a black/red wire (thats the wire from the ign switch) touch the wire agains the terminal very quickly and you should hear the solinoid engage the
starter. hold it a bit longer and the starter should spin the engine.
It Runs!!!!! Bring on the SVA!
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rusty nuts
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| posted on 5/2/06 at 03:38 PM |
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Chris, that would only work if Sam has a pre engaged starter. I may? have a spare connector for a Valencia distributor in the garage , will try to
find it when I get the chance if you want it.
Sam, Ford used a resisted wire with their ballast resistor systems on the Cortina but I'm not sure about the Escort . Look for a grey wire in
the feed to the coil, If you have one replace with normal wire this would give you 12v at the coil pos terminal . Can't get the picture to show
, is the little black box you have a relay about 1 in sq with 4 terminals? if so as B.T. says it's likely to be a bi-pass relay to give 12v at
the coil when cranking. What type of starter motor do you have? If it's an inertia type the solonoid is seperate and connected to the starter
with a heavy cable the same as between the solonoid and the battery. try checking for power to the solonoid avtivating terminal with the key turned to
start position , if you have a feed use an old screwdriver to bridge the large terminals on the solonoid . If starter operates then solonoid is
probably faulty , if not suspect starter. This all assumes battery is good. One other thing put into top gear , take handbrake off and push car
backwards , old Fords used to jam starters .
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nitram38
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| posted on 5/2/06 at 06:21 PM |
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It sounds as though you have used a 12V coil instead of a 9V one.
The idea is that on starting, you temporarily put 12V across the 9V coil which makes it produce a better spark. Once the car has started (when you
take your hand off the start position on your key) the 12V is then fed through the ballast resistor so that the coil only recieves 9V.
If you remove the ballast, you can use a 12V coil permanently. One of the most common breakdowns on this type of ignition is the ballast resister
failing. You can tell this by the way it trys to start, but instantly dies when you release the ignition key.
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David Jenkins
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| posted on 5/2/06 at 08:01 PM |
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No - with the Bosch dizzy you will need a 12v coil, with the bypass resistor removed and replaced with plain wire.
David
[Edited on 5/2/06 by David Jenkins]
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