It looked dreadfull,i think we dubbed it the cheese grater.LOL
There isnt a weld anywhere as its completely held together with rivets,the finished car had been pinned together with self tappers.
Has anyone seen the chassis design from Robin Hood....
http://www.robinhoodengineering.co.uk/whats%20new.htm
Now I just wanted peoples opinions on this, it doesn't mean I am gonna buy one!!
cheers
Mal...
no, but i have now, mmmmmmmmmmm they are just down road from me, think i will go n take a spy.
I saw this chassis at exeter last year,i actually thought it was a very early or even a very late april fools gag
It looked dreadfull,i think we dubbed it the cheese grater.LOL
There isnt a weld anywhere as its completely held together with rivets,the finished car had been pinned together with self tappers.
The only seven Stevie Wonder can read.
Hideous
Cheers
Chris
it looks like a tank.
strange business model. Stop selling everything for a year so you can make summat new, then delete the car you launched 'in a blaze of
glory' (!) - the subK - just a year before.
Fantastic names. 2b and SubK
wonder what he called his kids?
f^ck and s^ag perhaps?
atb
steve
Perhaps someone repossessed his CNC pipe bending machine, but left the rivet gun?
It would make sense
that's just how F1 tubbs used to be made years ago..
Following on from Viper...
Yeah my first thought was...."ah, OK a rivetted ally monocoque...seems OK..."
What am I missing?....is it not what it seems when you see it in person?
Not defending RH here, just trying to be neutral...
lets say imho of course,i have seen their efforts in the past and rather you than me
so the general opinion is that you lot don't like it...!!! just thought I would ask..
i would, myself, have to know the weight, rigidity and fatigue resistance of the chassis to form an opinion. if it is primarily safe, then strong and
light , then i would be impressed. It might look like a cheese grater and come from a company with a not perfect reputaton, but it might be the new
sliced bread...
I like the idea, but as JoelP says, it all comes down to the figures and whther its up to the job!
Speaking as ,I think, the only person in the UK (or anywhere else) who ever purcased their 'Lolocost' I.R.S Chassis back in 2002 ( my God I
was so innocent then !!) I would advise extreme caution to anyone who considers this as an option.
My beast is now sorted, but the chassis took a LOT of fettling. The alignment of almost everything was wrong. As they actually state in their blurb,
this new design DEPENDS upon accurate machining and I'm afraid, in my experience their record aint good.
Go for an MK or Luego..I wish I had
[Edited on 1/2/04 by jonti]
Even the name BOLTEON...whats that all about.
The words Bolt and On with an E in the middle.
why not RIVETEON? or ALUMINIUMEON
Highly imaginative and creative
On the robin hood 2b list I once described the 2b as being like a lego kit compared to a locost - just scre it together.
I was lucky to get out alive.
basically, the 2b appears to be a collection of bits which, if enuf time is spent, can ACTUALLY be assembled, in some form or another, to resemble a
car. Again, only with copious fettling
atb
steve
Going slightly off topic...
Has anyone fitted a RH bonnet to their car. I would like to replace my fibreglass one with a ali one with cooling louvres, RH one looked good on the
stand.
Bob and I took a good look at this chassis at the Exeter show and it was really nasty. I ran my hand along the inner passenger compartment side rail
and nearly sliced my finger off on the jagged edges.
I'm of the same opinion as others in that this could be a good idea for a new chassis design if the figures work out well, but as a product from
Robin Hood it was a nasty piece of work. The finished edges were razor sharp and the whole structural strength was reliant on rivets and hundreds of
self tapper screws.
I wouldn't want one.
They were really using self tappers in a stuctural application..??????
Wow....I hate them even for minor uses...
Alan
Self tappers were holding all the bodywork on,and not even nice looing tappers either.
The whole chassis is folded from sheet ali with tabs cut and bent back to rivet to the next piece,looked very much like certain areas would tear under
strain.
It all looked a bit random where the rivets were placed and generaly very untidy,i think it might have even helped more if RH had made more effort in
presentation as it was the bad finishing that drew our attention to it.
I saw the beast at the Exeter show as well. I may(?) be a good design, but the execution was child like. you could see the penny stamps where a hammer had been used to persuade unwilling ally to form the shape. Very C&N!
quote:
Originally posted by stephen_gusterson
Basically, the 2b appears to be a collection of bits which, if enuf time is spent, can ACTUALLY be assembled, in some form or another, to resemble a car. Again, only with copious fettling
____________________________-
The 2b chassis actually seems to have a lot of space in between the steel and very little triangulation. The gaps between the rails look enormous.
That's why, cos I'd never heard of MK or Luego, I opted for the Lolocost IRS Chassis option. To be fair, it is at least made out of decent sized tube, the joints are sleeved (I checked) and does have plenty of triangulation in it.
It looked great when I picked it up but when I started work on it and tried to do simple tasks, like make the wheels all point in the correct direction, sort out castor angles etc, I relaised I'd bought a pile of Sh*te.
RHE attitude was "well you bought a chassis not a kit, you're on your own",...Nice !.... I had to cut the fekin front sus mounts off and re-weld em they were so far out !
Lots of work later I have a reasonable motor but for the same price and with lots less work I could have had a better one from somewhere else. Indeed the time I took sorting this one I could have made me own.
Nah...RHE ???? Be very careful !!!!!
I know, I was that soldier !
greggors84 - 1/2/04 at 09:35 PMI was considering a 2B, but after speaking to someone who told me how he had to re jig his chassis, i looked else where....
dblissett - 2/2/04 at 09:08 PMit looks like some thing wallace and gromit might of made
i for one will stick to rons chassis
cheers dave
pauldm - 27/3/04 at 08:57 PMIs the 'google' search engine trying to tell us something re locost chasis ?
Ian Pearson - 27/3/04 at 09:42 PMI've not seen their new chassis, so I can't comment. I've bought several bits from Robin Hood via Lolocst. Always been pleased with the result, but then I've always inspected the stuff first. I bought an Autosparks loom off them, and when I realised that the steering sub loom was missing, I rang to enquire if it was possible to buy one. Needless to say, I experienced their legendary after sales service, which left me raging for a day or two. I vowed I would never buy anything from them again.......................However, I bought a book chassis that was made by them as a one off. Just after I bought the chassis, a few people slated it on the original list, and never having seen another chassis, I thought I'd bought a pile of pigeon poo. Having since seen several chassis from various manufacturers, my chassis is no better, but every bit as good as those mentioned on this list on a daily basis.
dozracing - 27/3/04 at 10:01 PMWith such a bad reputation how do they manage to top the list of number of kits sold per year?
I have a couple of customers who bought shocks from me for their Tigar Avon build who had a RH kit before the Avon. Basically they started working on it and got to a certain stage and realised it wasn't going to give them what they wanted and they skipped the chassis and used the donor parts on the Tiger. No experience of them myself but these guys were adamant that even the local scrap metal dealer didn't want the chassis. Even all the stainless parts rusted!!
Darren
guff - 27/3/04 at 11:01 PM.....and i was thinking about a 2b at one point.... not no more. I'm glad I started the thread "gts or mk?" and not "gts or rh?"! I think i may have been shot
britishtrident - 28/3/04 at 07:25 AMLink a lot of thing RH do the chassis is interesting but -----
The thing that amazes me is that completed Robin Hoods have a resale value, they actualy fetch silly money, Its the stainless steel that does it. Frrom the very first Triumph 1500 based car it was obvious that RH have no idea about suspension engineering, since then they have adopted several different suspension designs all radically different each one seemingly worse than the last.
They have however driven prices down --- and quality down even further. They also aren't scared of trying something different it is just what ever they do it seems only a quarter way thought through.
DaveFJ - 29/3/04 at 12:53 PMThe IDEA of the chassis, I find very interesting. With my aircraft engineering background, there is something very appealing about a really lightweight aluminium alloy monocoque - maybe coupled with a a decent bike engine... could be fantastic!
However - I have to agree that the chassis would have to be well made and designed - and no I don't trust RHE either!
On the other hand - to be fair! the chassis presented at the Exeter show was only a prototype and they still haven't gone into production so it would have probably been hand made - not machine folded etc........and a prototype is always just that....
Or maybe they are just crap - alegedly ?
theconrodkid - 29/3/04 at 12:59 PMif you talk to any car owner at a show they all get excited and say how wonderfull they are,try asking a throbin hood owner the same question and they string themselvs up
Markp - 29/3/04 at 08:10 PMOk,
It's not very often I come on here and give my personal opinion,
I know various people with robin hoods and fair enough some of the build quality isn't the best, But the robin hood is the kit they choose, for what ever reason. They might have bitched during the build but when it's complete they (like everyone on here will) stand back and say I built that, and going with the problems mentioned I will be the first to say welldone.
The new chassis could do with a few improvements and time will tell if they make them. There are alot of good things about Robin Hood (if it's the kit you want).
I.ve never had a problem with the bits and I won't be in the line to slag them off.
As I said at the begining, just my opinion.
Mark
[Edited on 29/3/04 by Markp]
britishtrident - 29/3/04 at 08:17 PMThe real problem for me is the lack of understanding of engineering -- less said about some of the suspension designs they have used the better..
mlgates - 29/3/04 at 08:19 PMquote:
Originally posted by dblissett
it looks like some thing wallace and gromit might of made
i for one will stick to rons chassis
cheers dave
Hey now!
stephen_gusterson - 29/3/04 at 09:11 PMIm not a fan either way of RHE but...
seems to me that as Cateringvan owners think locosters are a lesser life form, to us, its RH owners.
atb
steve
Markp - 29/3/04 at 10:47 PMShould it really matter what car you are building????
At the end of the day everyone has there own taste and the more kits that are being sold then the stonger the kit car industry will become. It doesn't pay for everyone to be the same.
Mark
NS Dev - 29/3/04 at 11:00 PMA fair point, some of the RHE engineering is extremely poor but having said that it is pretty cheap and if you want a single donor you have to put up with compromise! (just look at all the cars with Sierra front uprights, hmmmm)
britishtrident - 30/3/04 at 12:44 PMquote:
Originally posted by NS Dev
A fair point, some of the RHE engineering is extremely poor but having said that it is pretty cheap and if you want a single donor you have to put up with compromise! (just look at all the cars with Sierra front uprights, hmmmm)
I reckon the Sierra upright has advantages over the Cortina one. Everytime I look at the Cortina upright it annoys me even more so when it has the muckle great no good M16 caliper on it. If it wasn't for the simplicity of keeping reasonably close to the book I would use MG or Triumph front end parts.
DaveFJ - 30/3/04 at 01:53 PMquote:
Everytime I look at the Cortina upright it annoys me even more so when it has the muckle great no good M16 caliper on it.
Once more in English ??
[Edited on 30/3/04 by protofj]
200mph - 30/3/04 at 02:07 PMwhat? I understood him... your not scottish are you britishtrident?
muckle meaning big,
Anyone seen the big piece on RH in this months Kitcar? Wonder how much they paid the magazine for that feature..
Mark
NS Dev - 30/3/04 at 05:15 PMfair point but it's dead easy to fit other calipers!! (and vented discs) These uprights have been the basis of some of the best handling kits around. (my mate runs Ultima and their early cars used Cortina uprights, including the MK2 racers, before they got the ally ones sorted)
Brakes etc are dead easy to sort, the fundamental geometry is pretty much fixed, and the sierra is designed for a mcpherson strut with the top pivot well inboard of the pivot point used when "top hat" adaptor inserts are used! I did alter the cortina uprights on my 'grasser by shortening the steering arms to get better ackerman angle for the very short wheelbase (I redrilled the arms 20mm up the arm from the original tapered hole, then welded a spacer boss on top and a threaded boss underneath, a caphead bolt then pulls a spherical rodend (used as the trackrod end) onto the stepped spacer on top and the height of this spacer reduces the bump steer. This setup together with a 1-turn lock to lock rack gives me about 140 deg lock to lock, accessed by 1 a turn of the wheel, powerslides are not difficult to control now!! (not good for the road though and anyway I have gone off on a complete tangent as usual!!)
Ian Pearson - 1/4/04 at 05:10 PMquote:
seems to me that as Cateringvan owners think locosters are a lesser life form, to us, its RH owners.
Speak for yourself.
britishtrident - 1/4/04 at 06:01 PMquote:
Originally posted by Ian Pearson
quote:
seems to me that as Cateringvan owners think locosters are a lesser life form, to us, its RH owners.
Speak for yourself.
Lots of others we can look down on --- right at the very bottom Dutton and Locust, even RH is above them
Funny things is Catervan owners don't realise they should look up to Birkin.
Phil Allonby - 22/4/04 at 10:33 AMit just saddens me that we get into this type of stuff in the first place. i know its only personal opinion, to which we're all entitled and i know that some of the messages may be tongue in cheek, but theres a very real chance that people may be offended and upset, and that cant be the reason for us all being here. to be honest i cant see why anyone should look down on anyone else. i agree that the catering (etc) and westy boys probably do look down on others because their cars probably cost more than my house, but this stupid, spitefull attitiude shouldnt be shared by others in the kit car world. if you really want to look down on anyone, how about the guys who think that all cars should have a roof, should be economical and sensible. thats the real enemy!
phil
DaveFJ - 22/4/04 at 10:38 AMquote:
Originally posted by Phil Allonby
. if you really want to look down on anyone, how about the guys who think that all cars should have a roof, should be economical and sensible. thats the real enemy!
phil
How about the Chav's with there spoiler laden neon lit Massive alloyed Nova's ? Surely they are the enemy too ?
theconrodkid - 22/4/04 at 10:44 AMi agree with last bit there phill,the rest is that we have to convince ourselvs we made the right choice,not only in spending a sack full of cash on a car we only use a few weeks of the year but that we built the right car,i did a lot of research before i built mine and i think i made the right decission,its a tribal thing as well,my tribe/football club is better than yours.
i have found all the locost/mk/luego builders i have met very friendly and some things they have done for fellow builders really have been beyond the call of duty,read elsewhere as to how others have treated their own
JoelP - 22/4/04 at 01:00 PMthose miserable bar stewards...
Mark Allanson - 22/4/04 at 07:04 PMTo quote from this months Practical Classics
Robin Hood
"One rung above a Locost, the Robin Hoood is another budget seven that can be built from a dead Sierra on a shoestring.
While the engineering is sound enough, it is nothing to get excited about - but if you keep the build costs down you should be able to get your money back at resale time"
Poor sad, ill informed, cheeky bastards
I think we should all email the dull buggers and set them right
stephen_gusterson - 22/4/04 at 08:50 PMwhats their addy then?
atb
steve
JoelP - 22/4/04 at 09:11 PMsecond that, gimme an address and i'll give them an earfull. fools...
Mark Allanson - 22/4/04 at 09:16 PMfound it
practical.classics@emap.com
let the onslaught commence
stephen_gusterson - 22/4/04 at 09:25 PMdid my bit
used the bollox word too
atb
steve
Phil Allonby - 22/4/04 at 09:26 PMoh dear! i did see this months practical classics and saw that article too, in fact that was one of the reasons why i popped in here to see what you guys response to it was.
the perception that some people (certainly those that i've spoken to) is that locost suffers because of a perception that there is no one brand that people can associate with. especially with all the makers having a stab at the market to some extent. a friend told me that he thought locosts were just made up of bits from various cars. this could either be a very good thing: ie pick the best chassis from one place and the best body from elsewhere, but he got the impression that it was a bit of a cobble up on a shoestring. either that or some amateur welding lots of little bits of box section together (i hate it on other forums when people refer to it as "square tube!"needless to say i put him right, but i dont suppose he's on his own in the predjudice.
do you think that a lack of a single maker affects the image/desirability of the locost?
phil
Phil Allonby - 22/4/04 at 09:30 PMquote:
Originally posted by theconrodkid
i have found all the locost/mk/luego builders i have met very friendly and some things they have done for fellow builders really have been beyond the call of duty,read elsewhere as to how others have treated their own
where should i be searching for eveidence of bad treatment???? give me a clue i'm tired!
:-)
phil
stephen_gusterson - 22/4/04 at 09:37 PMno
however, there is a form of inverted snobbery, where we consider that cateringvan owners are wimps that just bought in to 'the scene' cos they dont have the talent to build from scratch.
atb
steve
Mark Allanson - 22/4/04 at 10:31 PM"One rung above a Locost, the Robin Hoood is another budget seven that can be built from a dead Sierra on a shoestring.
While the engineering is sound enough, it is nothing to get excited about - but if you keep the build costs down you should be able to get your money back at resale time"
I hope the YTS trainee who wrote this has been given a P45. It has clearly been written by someone totally unaware of the subject being dicussed, or the technical issues relating to Locosts and Robin Hoods.
Please research the facts relating to Locosts and Robin Hoods and write an accurate article showing the pro's and con's of the cars concerned. I feel you would be very suprised by the results of your research.
Such unintelligent spluttings cheapen your otherwise excellent magazine
My contribution to enlightening Practical Classics
Wankers
Alan B - 23/4/04 at 12:18 AMquote:
Originally posted by Phil Allonbyi hate it on other forums when people refer to it as "square tube!"l
Phil, why is that?
To me it is square tube, my steel receipts say ERW square tube.....
I associate the term box section with RHS and SHS which isn't what we use...RHS doesn't go down to the wall thicknesses we use, I believe 2mm is the thinnest....
Unless of course yours is made out of box section.
Still I guess it's only semantics...just wanted to voice my view on the terminology...
theconrodkid - 23/4/04 at 05:53 AMphil,look at misrable cateringvan owning bstards
theconrodkid - 23/4/04 at 06:08 AMcant find the article with this steam driven ex russian army compo,anyone want to paste it up or send it to me
stephen_gusterson - 23/4/04 at 08:40 AMDuh conrod!
Its right at the top of one of the new panels on the LHS of the front page as a popular topic.
It was right what you were told - it does make your eyesite bad.
now wheres that 'post reply button' on the fuzzy screen in front of me
atb
steve
JoelP - 23/4/04 at 12:38 PMi did an email too. i also pointed out that no seven replicas are either practical or classics...
Phil Allonby - 23/4/04 at 12:40 PMhi alan b
All i know about the box section/tube question is that as an engineering apprentice it was drummed into me that "tube" meant a "hollow cylindrical channel" and not a hollow rectangular channel - hence the tubular bit. as for manufacturers putting it on invoices nothing surprises me anymore!
like you say its just a little linguistic nonsense, but things like that have a habit ofd driving me crazy!
and no, my car isnt made from box, in fact its now sold, and i'm at a loose end. it was a robin hood but following nthe work i had done at a certain engineering firm its been sold now and theres a big seven shaped hole in the garage!!!!!
phil
JoelP - 23/4/04 at 02:32 PMquote:
Originally posted by Phil Allonby
...and theres a big seven shaped hole in the garage!!!!!
phil
get it filled quick then man!
undecided - 23/4/04 at 06:51 PMonly way to describe a robin hood? is proper b****** but then you get what you pay for i suppose these days
chrisg - 23/4/04 at 07:26 PMI suppose some Robin Hoods are better than some Locosts, all down to the builder really.
You can certainly make a very nice RH as you can a Locost but with a Locost you don't start by correcting other peoples mistakes, hats off to the RH lads it's reputed to be quite a difficult job.
Cheers
Chris
Phil Allonby - 25/4/04 at 07:17 AMI'd agree with that, some of the stuff that I've read about on their forum shows a pretty impressive level of ingenuity. The best thing about their forum however is the sense you get of helping out their fellow drivers (i've now read the miserable Ba***rds thread) With the possible exception of a few ar***oles i think most kitcar drivers would be shocked by the cateringvans lack of support! their hoods regional secretaries organise regular trips to current builders who are experiencing any difficulties, so one sunday 20 hoods will roll up outside your house with advice and help. must be a great boost to the morale too. I cant imagine that anywhere near as many hoods would get finished without the support of the club. Much as on here i suspect.
phil
Guinness - 27/4/04 at 07:06 PMJust been on totalkitcar.com news page and noticed RH are up for sale??
Markp - 27/4/04 at 09:49 PMPhil Allonby
After reading your post, I have to agree with you. I'm in the robinhood club and I have never met so many people who will help out at the drop of the hat. The meetings are great, the events which are organised are fantastic and I wouldn't have it any other way. They show no prejudice about what car you have or drive and the web site never slags other s off.
As for the robinhood ranking side of things, I honestly built my car form scratch because I couldn't afford to buy a kit, I belive that (and again it's my own opinion) that I am at the lowest scale of the kit car trade because I didn't build a kit car, I built a car. This was the easiest way without investing alot of money at one time.
Mark.
[Edited on 28/4/04 by Markp]
James - 28/4/04 at 08:19 AM
MarkP,
Caught you... I spotted what you've now edited out of your post written last night!
I actually replied to it too- then thought better of it!
All the best,
James
[Edited on 28/4/04 by James]
Markp - 28/4/04 at 05:23 PMJames.
Guilty
I wrote it last night after a few beers and saw sense this mornig to edit it.
The whole topic winds me up, why does one have to be better than the other? As everyone is in to the same thing can't that be classed as equal?
I know you get the Caterham owners looking down on people but why should we stoop to their level.
Mark
Phil Allonby - 10/5/04 at 10:20 AMhello all,
i know this topic s abit old by now, but i just spotted a post on the RhOCAR site that reminded me of it, and all the nasty things we said about cateringvans not helping folk out.
a guys bought an old car thats been bodged quite seriously! all the mounts for the front end have been cut off!!!! One of the guys on the board has offered to strip down his front end for the guy and give him a set of measurements so he can rebuild the front end. and the cost for dismantling his priode and joy? A couple of pints at newark.
Nothing i wouldnt expect on here though, but good to share, since it confirms that we're all in the same boat, and very nearly all of us just want to help out.
Phil
