hehe
hello, prob the wrong forum,but best value for money, gts or indy??
i'd say they're probably about equal, i have no experience with the gts kit, so i can't tell you how well made it is.
however, the mk kit is bloody good, i've had no real problems with anything, tolerences all seem fine, all round i'm very impressed
do a scratch build - pay about 60 for materials and have hours of fun hehe
quote:
Originally posted by Graceland
do a scratch build - pay about 60 for materials and have hours of fun
good point
but still - hours of fun
hi, i went for a look round the GTS factory, and the guys there were very helpful!
dont know a lot about mk, but i am definitley going to be orering a GTS kit in april
i've had excellant service from gts myself - just waiting to place my order for the de-dion back beam
Cant comment about GTS but MK will take some beating, genuine people, everybody is helpfull and profesional, they come fully recomended
Gordon
Not crazy about the kink right in the middle of the GTS de dion tube, I suspect they could have designed it a bit better and reduced it a little bit by grinding the unused lug off the back of back the Siera diif.
Dont forget about Luego.
I know that doesnt help but i know of no one whos had anything bad to say about Luego whereas some peeps have had arguements with MK. Read through
past threads.
Do not take this as a dig against mk, they are great and there really is nothing in between them, its all down to the look and feel you prefer.
[Edited on 15/3/04 by Findlay234]
MK, nuff said.
The design allows for an easy build hence the shape of the axle. No modifications are then needed to fit a standard Ford component.
Regards
Mark
(still think shorter is better!!)
I suggest that, as you are planning to spend a heap of money, that you should visit all of the parties concerned and make your mind up based on
quality of workmanship, helpfulness of the people, and price. Yes, it'll take a day or three, but you'll be happier in the end.
Second choice is to go to a show, but you may not see people like GTS (but you can always ring and ask if they'll be at a particular show).
I don't think you'll find a lot of difference in build quality between Luego, MK, GTS and ST. You may well find the personalities friendly,
apart from ST maybe. You will notice differences in price, to a certain extent.
Finally, see if there are any builders nearby, and ask what they think of their car.
To summarise - shop around!
cheers,
David
Just to correct the misunderstanding about our presence at shows.
We are intending to do the majority of shows this year Detling being the first.
As for build quality/workmanship, i strongly believe that we are at worst equal to our competitors and our background and combined experience cannot
be equaled in the rest of the kit car industry. This is reflected in the ingenuity and quality of the components we manufacture. Also worth bearing in
mind that since we launched our kit in November we have developed several key ingeniuos components/systems for our car taking it past the competition
already. This is set to continue as its in our nature to constantly innovate and develop.
We are at a big disadvantage in comparison to MK etc, in that as we are so new there are less people building our kit and hence less people to give an
opinion on its ease of build and quality etc..
We are very accomodating, factory visits are welcomed at anytime you can call me any time including evenings and weekends. MK for one are not so
welcoming and i believe visits are restricted to saturday mornings only.
Basically if you put your trust in us we will work as hard as physically possible to ensure you are 100% satisfied with the end result. We are very
accomodating with respect to altering the design/specification to suit a customers needs. Just ask and we'll try and help.
Kind regards,
Darren (GTS)
Darren,
I wasn't trying to put you down, honest! Most people here seem to put you in the same league as MK and Luego for build and design, which
ain't bad at all.
I have some of the Triton GRP on my car, and I can recommend it to anyone.
best wishes,
David
whatever you do, don't grind the lug off the back of the sierra dif, i have done this and you end up with a hole as the casting goes up inside
that lug - it's hollow!!!
I think there's not much between the gts and mk, though I haven't seen the gts in the kit, but have bought bits/dealt with darren and it all
seems good stuff so far. my dedion tube is on its way and hopefully bodywork will be being sorted soon.
Ned.
"We are very accomodating, factory visits are welcomed at anytime you can call me any time including evenings and weekends. MK for one are not so
welcoming and i believe visits are restricted to saturday mornings only."
The above comments regards MK are simply not true, not sure this is the place for them either, from a private individual maybe but............
anyhow, thats IMHO only.
Apologies to Mk, if that not the case, but thats the feedback i've been getting recently regarding making contact with MK.
Several of my customers have told me that they have been told that they can only visit on Saturday morning until 1pm.
Kind regards,
Darren
It is indeed nice to be mentioned along with such firms as MK and Luego who do a fine job.
The only way to decide which kit suits you best is to visit all on your wish list and speak to those concerned.
You will find some nice touches with each kit concerned but perhaps not all on the same kit.....unless it's a GTS
as i understand it, the saturday thing is open house situation, if you call, you can arange another time to go over.
Nothing against MK...they seem a fabulous company....but Darren has a point.
It seems all the info. about MK is second-hand...via customers etc.....
It would be nice if someone from MK would do like Darren or the Leugo guys do and answer questions.
OK, I know it is entirely MK's business, certainly none of mine...but I'm sure it would help them to respond on here just now and then.
Of course absolutely just IMO...can't be anything else 4000 miles away...
That eleven body might just be up for grabs Mr Staple balls.
admin@tritonsportscars.com
there are some dodgey "firms" out there, they get sussed pretty quickly, i'm sure GTS aint one of them, i just felt it was a little off
for one company to comment on another on here, a little un-professional, like my speeling !!! anyhow Darrens later post put it right, end of story.
Alan, surley comments via MK's customers can only be the best sort of advertising ??
Personaly ive been at Mk's every day of the week, including Sundays and never been ignored or turned away.
Thats me done on the subject cos the last thing i want is a tit 4 tat posting war.
quote:
Originally posted by Jon Ison......Alan, surley comments via MK's customers can only be the best sort of advertising ??.......
martin has posted once or twice i think. But yeah, maybe hes too busy to get involved here. his spokesman is here enough for two anyway...
quote:
Originally posted by JoelP
martin has posted once or twice i think........
Alan, Martin has posted on here when he felt it apropriate. But as Jon says the best sales force are your customers. The man makes a quality product
and backs it up with professional personel sevice.
Gordon
Gordon,
I never disputed any of that in the slightest.....I'm certain everything good said about MK is 100% true.
For the record Martin has posted once (unless he has mulitple accounts) to basically say no comment about the prop shaft incident......
My point...which I will make one final time is.....that IMO, for the benefit of MK eng., it wouldn't hurt to pass the odd comment slightly more
often, rather than have speculative comments tossed around....I'm not sayng come online and brag, rather come online and correct ill informed
discussions....
I can't stress enough how much I believe that MK are an excellent company, and my comments are intended to only to be helpful...
However, Martin may be even smarter than I think by not stepping in and putting the record straight now and then.
As OW said "the only thing worse than being talked about...is not being talked about"...
Enough said
If i ran Mk and were as busy as they were, i would limit drop in visits to saturdays any way. The man has so much to do in the week and the customers
benefit by getting all the time thay need and full attention on saturday. I've been to MK on a saturday morn and its more like a very friendly
owners club meet! Potential customers are also almost certain to be able to talk to existing customers and more importanly look over their finished
cars.
Cant say for luego or GTS but i am very happy with the Mk service.
Doug.
and taken for a spin too, allthough one got more than he bargained for, did you know an Indy can climb out of a field up a 1:4 bank..........there is
a pic somewhere of the "grasscutting" incident........
A customer of mine said yesterday that i should be very pleased that the title of this thread is gts vs mk, and that Luego who have a massive ad on
every page of this site and Tiger aren't given a mention. He has a point! I'm pleased that people are prepared to discuss and compare our
product with something rated so highly as the MK, and that by inference Luego and Tiger are perhaps considered inferior in some way.
Closing arguments on why you should buy a GTS. Thought i'd just do a quick direct price comparison (all prices taken direct from MK website this
evening).
GTS rolling chassis kit includes:-
Chassis (powder coated and with floor, seatback etc....),
Front suspension - powder coated and with camber adjuster system.
DeDion rear suspension - powder coated.
Set of four shocks and springs.
Polybush kit.
Suspension bolt kit.
11 piece bodywork (back panel, side panels, scuttle, bonnet, nose cone and four wings and dash).
Engine mounts - powder coated.
Steering rack expentions,
Mushroom adaptors,
Front cycle wing supports,
Roll hoop,
Adjustable pedal set,
Exchange uprights
Exchange steering column down link.
£1950.
MK equivalent kit is £2295 and isn't powder coated, so with powder coating = £2470
Thats a whopping £520 saving with GTS. If you order before end of March (limited to five people only) then you receive a free aluminium fuel tank
worth £90.
Questions/comments should be sent offlist to darren@gtstuning.co.uk
Kind regards,
Darren
Oops sorry forgot to add that the GTS kit also comes with a 6 piece bal joint set and new steering rack rubber mounts.
Lead time is 2-3 weeks on a kit.
Kind regards,
Darren
could we try to aviod making this a mk Vs. GTS bitching ground?
when it comes down to it, they are 2 pretty different products, made by 2 different companies. now, they may be dead equal on quality and from what
i've seen/heard both companies are about the same service wise.
But
Mk have been going a lot longer, have a good reputation, not saying that GTS doesn't, but you are less well known in the greater scheme of
things.
and just to say, i've been very satisfied with all the products i've had from both companies, but gts does need to work on the customer
services and delivery times.
mk could do with online ordering of stuff, or at least someone to real the email.
Its no bitching ground. In fact i've been very impressed with the way that things have been kept super civilised in comparison with some threads
you get on here.
Your comments are dead correct. As i said in a previous posting, MK have a fantastic advantage in that they are so well known and have sold so many
kits that they have established their reputation and achieved a good one at that.
I'm in the position where i have to generate that interest and get kits moving so that people can see for themselves how easy they are to build,
how well made they are etc.. This is the one reason that i'm forced to work this group every evening and MK don't have to. The same thing
applies with pricing. I have to offer a super attractive kit to get volume in the market place so that i can get positive feedback and spread the
word.
If you want a nicely detailed kit, loaded with features and a highly discounted price, designed and developed by a highly experience F1 designer and
made by an equally experience race car fabricator then we would like to do business with you. If you want an MK because its a known product, highly
rated by those who build and work with them, then your choice will be MK and there is nothing i can do about that.
Don't accuse me of slagging MK off though cos i haven't a bad word to say about them.
Kind regards,
Darren
quote:
Originally posted by dozracing
Don't accuse me of slagging MK off though cos i haven't a bad word to say about them.
Darren. Are you that desperate for business. I have never seen such blatant advertising on a thread. May be we do need moderators after all.
Hi,
Not desperate. Keen to establish a presence.
I think most people understand that my general rule is to keep all mention of prices out of posts on this website, as i have realised that this can
cause offence to some.
I thought i would lay it out once and only once on here and let that be that. Especially as the thread itself calls for a comparison between the two i
think its justified in this instance.
Point duely noted though. Also noted is that you are using a Ninja engine, which is interesting as we have recently done two Ninja engined cars one
fully assembled and one in kit form which is now in rolling chassis stage (see Chris B's post and pics). I'm very interested to see how the
performance works out with these bike engines as these are our first use of them.
Kind regards,
Darren
Hi all,
I met Martin when we did Stoneliegh in 2002, well actually he came to find if i actually decided to go but that's another story and best
forgotten....Really nice bloke and wished us well.
So what i am saying is we do not have any bad feelings, more like admiration for what MK has done for the kit industry.......
Regards
Mark
When i was looking for a kit last year, i looked at all the kits, i went back and forward and couldnt decide what to have. I was going for a tiger,
then heard bad things about them, eventually i went for an MK because i had only heard good things about them.
They were really friendly and helpful on the phone, and when we went to pick up the kit, they were even more friendly even though they were busy. I
popped along to the stand at donnington to pick someparts up and had a quick chat then. They always give the advice to the best of their knowledge.
Everyone i have spoke to with an MK has been very impressed and had no gripes.
The only thing i can say they could improve is have someone to answer the phones and emails. I was waiting for some parts for a couple of weeks once,
but as soon as i phoned they arrived within two days. Its been said before that MK is a great engineering but he might need to work on his business
skills 
.
Also the amount of kits they make and to the quality they make them its amazing they have time to eat sleep and breathe.
Just cant wait to get it on the road and pop up there and see them.
p.s. Naming any names on this F1 designer darren?
Well,
I'm going to the GTS formula 1 design office tomorrow lunch to pick up my dedion axle. I had a nice chat with Darren yesterday about his work and
I'm looking forward to taking a look round tomorrow and see what he's working on. No promises that I'll be able to disclose any of the
info though, f1 is top secret stuff! try asking james about his mclaren gearboxes!!
Ned.
Surely the two cant be comparable as one is dedion setup one Independent, surely indy more expensive due to uprights, more wishbones, ball joints etc
??????. Surely The mk would be better compared to a Luego as same chassis type. Does anybody else do a dedion setup ???????, Do like the look of it i
must admit, what is the advantage and thinking behind the dedion axle as opposed to the independant type, and a live axle
cheers
http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/viewthread.php?tid=8090
irs hard to set up, dedion simple. Dedion has better camber control in acceleration, irs is better in roll.
anything to add to that?
It comes down to a personal choice......people rave about the new Mini.......personaly i think it's pig ugly and just not a Mini....but then that's my opinion.
I've bought stuff from MK, Darren & Mark. Spoken to them all on more than one occasion. They are all good folk, trying to make a crust. I
personally found Mark and Darren a little more personal, and if I were to start all over again, my instinct would be to buy from them. For the 7th Day
MKists amongst you, I'm not anti MK . just a subtle difference between the two outfits.
quote:
Originally posted by Ian Pearson
For the 7th Day MKists amongst you
Ever noticed that blue smarties taste different?..............
...and we have no particular preference other than it being around the corner from us... We have little gripes about our MK, but to be honest who
doesn't? Surely it depends on your level of skill and inginuity and more importantly your expectations of your own build.
Personally I believe that publically critisising your competition generally does nothing for your own credibility. IMHO it tends to lower the opinion
of potential buyers towards you due to the defensive and biased view you are portraying - so it actively acts against you.
We don't really need to hear the manufacturers openly slag each other off in public do we?
Just my ten-penneth... afterall we all have our faults!
Hi Hellfire,
Do you think that we've been openly slagging each other then? Strange because in fact when you read the posts its been more of a mutual
admiration theme if you ask me.
The thread has called for a comparison between the two. Comparisons have been posted, nothing has been said to slag off Mk from my side, and no post i
have read has slagged off my products so where do you get the impression that its some sort of slagging match?
I can only assume that you aren't reading the posts and only picking up on snippits. Go back through each post and tell me where i've
slagged off MK because you'll find throughout that i have not a bad word to say about them.
Talk about trying to inflame an otherwise friendly discussion! I'm sure some people on here are in some sort of competition to post more than
anyone else and will just express an opinion for the sake of getting a higher ranking in the posting statistics.
That's what i mean about the blue smarties...they are different.
Just expressing a GENERAL opinion. Didn't mention any names did we........?
Just goes to show how inference can be made to innocent comments 
" MK for one are not so welcoming "
?
Thats not slagging, thats a comparison to the amount of effort we make to accomodate visitors which is second to none because we'll make
ourselves available 24-7 if need be.
Slagging would be making comments regarding the quality of the components or about the general design like the bent tubes etc..
Look, buy a GTS and you will be well chuffed, you will have a nice car, well produced, plenty of support and a product to be proud off.
Excactly the same can be said of an MK.
I have to agree with Mr Hellfire though, reading some of the postings would certainly put me off, and i am like many others on here a potentional
customer to all kit car suppliers be it kits, parts ect.... it may not have intended to come over as (blowing your own trumpet) but that was the
opinion i got, we are all entitled to an opinion after all, we dont have to have the same one mind you can we just let it rest, id'e hate to be
accused of trying to get further up the posting rankings by continuing a pointless disscussion.
There both bloody good kits, take a look and make your own mind up, its your money after all.
you're right doz...
<madpost>
quote:</madpost>
just express an opinion for the sake of getting a higher ranking in the posting statistics.
!!! ROFLMAO blimey, I wasnt expecting such a huge tide of replies.... cheers for eveyones views. Darren, I am miles away from faversham, bit of a long shot but do you by any chance post kits?!?!
Think Guff just hit the nail on the head - it's good to have another manufacturer in the SE - if everything else was nearly equal I'd always
rather buy from somebody local.
And I have Marks GRP and it's excellent quality.
I think the local postmistress would do her nut if i turned up with it all nicely wrapped in brown paper!
I'm sure we could find away of uniting proud owners with their new purchase.
I've been having meetings recently regarding the future of the customer with a few big wigs and we also feel that the South is a little short on
seven manufacturers in comparison with the north. Caterham being the exception obviously. So we feel this might be in our favour.
We have bloke that can....as regards door to door deliveries...but be warned he is as madasafish!
Well just thought id mention, ive never even heard of GTS until tonight whilst looking through the postings, so i took a look at the website and
couldnt believe that finally there was a manufacturer in the south east, within a few miles from me. So on the off chance i thought id call the
number, and guess what.
At 7:30pm on a saturday night someone answered, i then spent the next 20mins chattting about the GTS kit.
Now how many companies do you know that would do that.
Top bloke as well by the sounds of it. Im looking for a kit ,and im pretty sure i know where ill be spending my money now, and not just because their
in the south.
Although i really didnt fancy the trip to Nottingham i must say.
Cheers GTS. See you at Detling.
[Edited on 20/3/04 by ChrisS]
[Edited on 20/3/04 by ChrisS]
Well,
Just to add to the comparison, I am now in possesion of my dedion axle. Darren let me meet him at work in his lunch hour. He showed me round various
demo pieces they had produced, including many carbon and titanium gp and f1 pieces that Darren asked me not to give too much detail about..
Darren didn't want me to go into specifics, but needless to say I was very impressed with all the design and manufacturing work I saw.
Darren also had time to show me his cad models of the gts chassis, some designs he had on rollbars and inboard suspension. He even recmmended a good
pub where I took my good lady who waited in the car for an hour whilst I collected my axle and chatted with Darren!
Darren couldn't have been more accomodating if he had tried and the quality of the welding and finish of the axle and associated parts is
excellent. The penetration and consistency of the welding is top notch.
I have seen MK Indy's many times and have now bought fabricated parts from both MK and GTS. Its all down to personal preference. For me Darren is
nearer, but if i want something from MK, I'll get it posted or collect at a show.
I'd thoroughly reccomend either manufacturer to anyone.
Ned.
So Chris,
Where are you based? Sounds like you're a likely candidate to join the South East monthly meet. 1st Sunday of the month at Newlands Corner- (near
Guildford).
Although this month it's at Detling!
Seeya there,
James
quote:
Originally posted by James
So Chris,
Where are you based? Sounds like you're a likely candidate to join the South East monthly meet. 1st Sunday of the month at Newlands Corner- (near Guildford).
Although this month it's at Detling!
Seeya there,
James
if your in canterbury watch out for that ben copeland character
not heard that name. is he a kit driver, if he is i might know, but there arent many kitcars in the area, apart from a caterham and 1 dax rush.
Don't worry, Ben's out near Margate, and he hasn't quite finished his car yet..
Ned.
When i took a stand at Exeter some listers suggested we had a book (sort of school register) to sign in. So each list member could register that they
were there etc..
Maybe i'll sort something out on my stand at Detling. Maybe i'll even do biccies or something for listers only!
quote:
Originally posted by ChrisS
Im down in canterbury, but i havent actually got a kit at the mo, the xtreme on my avatar was the last one i built. Im waiting on the sale of a golf cabrio so i can get going on GTS kit.
Fingers crossed for a bit of sun to bring out those buyers.
quote:
Originally posted by ned
Don't worry, Ben's out near Margate, and he hasn't quite finished his car yet..
Ned.
fig rolls and plain choc diggies(straight from the fridge)please
quote:
Originally posted by James
quote:
Originally posted by ChrisS
Im down in canterbury, but i havent actually got a kit at the mo, the xtreme on my avatar was the last one i built. Im waiting on the sale of a golf cabrio so i can get going on GTS kit.
Fingers crossed for a bit of sun to bring out those buyers.
That's fine- there's a couple of weirdos who turn up to the meet without finished cars and they're usually tolerated!
Isn't Detling just off the M20? It can only be 20/30 miles from you- the rest of us have gotta go much further!
As regards Newlands Corner you can do that in an hour.... if you try bloody hard!
I live just near Newlands and to UKC it was 81miles door to door- did it in 55 minutes once!
... clearly not in my elderly Golf!
quote:
Originally posted by ned
Don't worry, Ben's out near Margate, and he hasn't quite finished his car yet..
Ned.
I'd worry if I was you... he might finish it soon...
Darren,
Nice idea. Conrod's going though so I'm a little concerned... I don't quite know how he'd react to the offer of free biscuits!
Cheers,
James
Of the many manufacturers in the Sevenish/Locost market I can only think of 2 I wouldn't buy parts from on quality grounds easy to guess which. Another I wouldn't buy from in case they go belly up before delivery BUT a few are above the rest for all the right reasons leaving out Birkin and Caterham on grounds of cost MK stood out on weld quality and good well though no-nonsense design detail (sadly no longer at bargain basement prices), DAX stood out for sheer hi-tec cleverness. Now we have GTS, clearly both a vfm and quality product. I still have my doubt about one tiny detail of the de Diondesign but its a lot of bang per buck.