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Haynes or Ron Champion Chassis
Sam - 16/7/09 at 05:57 PM

Apologies if this topic has been covered but Ive searched and cant find it !

Which is the better chassis the Haynes Roadster or Ron Champions or are they the same.

I have only purchased Chriss, Haynes Roadster book. I dont know if theres a difference. Do I need Rons book ???

I am querying this having read 'cymtriks' 'Analysis of a Car Chassis' and the modifications he suggests may improve stiffness etc. Only he references to Rons book and the part nos dont tally !!

Are his mods relevant to the Haynes Roadster or is the Roadster an evolution of Rons with issues ironed out and stiffness improved.
Can the double Y bracing still be implemented in the same way to increase engine space ??

UncleFista - 16/7/09 at 06:03 PM

Totally different designs.

Ron's is based on a MK2 Escort, using Cortina front uprights and a live rear axle.

Chris' is based on the Sierra as a donor, is slightly bigger and uses independant rear. It's also been designed using computer software and is a stiffer, stronger chassis.

If I was building again, it'd be a Mr Gibbs design I'd be building

I take it you've found the Haynes Roadster Forum ?

[Edited on 16/7/09 by UncleFista]

Mark Allanson - 16/7/09 at 06:09 PM

I have built a book car and am very pleased with it, but if starting now I would build a Haynes, you don't have to raid Beaulieu to get your donor parts, and Triton makes a very good and reasonable body panel kit.

Chis is very approachable if you want to make modifications on here and http://www.haynes.co.uk/forums/index.php

Go for it, you won't regret it

craig1410 - 16/7/09 at 07:19 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Sam
Apologies if this topic has been covered but Ive searched and cant find it !

Which is the better chassis the Haynes Roadster or Ron Champions or are they the same.

I have only purchased Chriss, Haynes Roadster book. I dont know if theres a difference. Do I need Rons book ???

I am querying this having read 'cymtriks' 'Analysis of a Car Chassis' and the modifications he suggests may improve stiffness etc. Only he references to Rons book and the part nos dont tally !!

Are his mods relevant to the Haynes Roadster or is the Roadster an evolution of Rons with issues ironed out and stiffness improved.
Can the double Y bracing still be implemented in the same way to increase engine space ??


I mean no disrespect to cymtriks when I say that many of the improvements are common sense if you have even a small amount of mechanical design knowledge.

Structural design can be as complicated as you want it to be with diminishing returns as more refinements are made. However, if you are looking for a decently strong amateur chassis and aren't too concerned about the ultimate in lightness or using exotic materials then you can go a long way by just making sure you turn all your rectangular openings into triangular openings.

Obviously you also need to be sure of the strength of your welding so practice lots and ideally get tuition. Also try sawing through some of your test welds to see if you are getting good penetration. In addition, cut your tubes as accurately as possible to ensure a tight fit between tubes although you will perhaps want a 0.6mm (welding wire) gap between tubes when welding to aid penetration.

My chassis was based on the McSorley 7+4 design but I modified it heavily to support the extra weight and torque of my V8 engine. I could have taken these mods a lot further but the chassis is already plenty stiff as evidenced by the fact I can rarely get it to sit on all four axle stands at the same time. There is so little flex in the chassis that with the rear of the car on two axle stands I can jack up the front and place an axle stand on either side. Due to garage floor tolerances one of the stands will touch the chassis first as the jack is lowered and if that happens then I can release the jack completely and the other side will maintain the same gap to the other axle stand give or take a millimeter at most. This is with the car fully assembled and weighing around 850Kg.

I'll post a pic showing my chassis mods later if I can find one.

Cheers,
Craig.

Have a look here and here for some pics of my chassis.

[Edited on 16/7/2009 by craig1410]

handyandy - 16/7/09 at 07:40 PM

i must admit that i haven,t read the Ron Champion book but i,m approx 50% through building a Haynes Roadster, what appealed to me with the Roadster is that it is a more up to date design, as already mentioned, designed with computer drawings for strength, using independant rear suspension etc, there are quite a few "builds in progress" at the moment & various engines are being used , 1.8cvh,zetecs & V6,s, all of which are fitting into the chassis,s without major problems, also as the Haynes Roadster uses sierra running gear some of the donor parts are easier to get hold of.
i might add that i,ve never built a car before & have found Chris,s book very easy to follow.
good luck with your choice.

cheers
andy

snapper - 16/7/09 at 08:32 PM

With Rons book, now, you only have the book.
With Chris Gibbs/Haynes you have the book and the website, infact you need the website as it goes hand in hand with the book and the info is concise and spot on.

speedyxjs - 17/7/09 at 06:16 AM

Another vote for haynes

iank - 17/7/09 at 07:38 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Ninehigh
I thought they were both the same, the latter being modified for lack of mk2 escorts and giving up one the £250 price tag..

Is there really that much difference?


Yes, completely different design.

Ninehigh - 17/7/09 at 08:30 PM

Doh, deleting one of a double post deletes both of them!

Looks like there's so much difference in them all calling it a Seven is getting like calling any van a Transit...

Staple balls - 18/7/09 at 02:49 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Ninehigh
Doh, deleting one of a double post deletes both of them!


That happens when the forum software decides to show one post twice, rather than an actual double post.

Best to refresh a few times to be sure before deleting.