My previous track/road car was a Saxo VTR, and I currently own a '02 Impreza STI @ 340bhp and a.. err.. Smart Cabriolet (74bhp! whoop!)

As I'm struggling to think of where to go from the Impreza - I guessed a kitcar is the way to go for my performance requirements!

While I've looked around the wider kit car world a little and have identified a few kits I like - obviously it would be nice to get a new toy a little cheaper so am investigating the Locost world.

Because this would be nothing more than a toy - no creature comforts are needed or wanted, I include little things like heaters and windscreens in that!. I plan to be car engined - possibly Zetec or similar...

With that in mind, would someone kindly suggest a few chassis that are suitable for the kind of thing I have in mind to get me started?

Thanks for any help.

[Edited on 17/1/10 by Prasius]

Do you want it road legal?

The 4 id go for would be in no particular order. Although if i built another id do an mnr because i love the look of them..

MNR vortex
MK indy
Mac#1
Westfield

If you want true locost then get the haynes roadster book and build the lot yourself. Or there are people on ebay selling haynes roadster chassis for not too much money.

[Edited on 17/1/10 by Danozeman]

biased opinion i know cause i've got one,but dont forget Raw Striker!they cleared up in quite afew race series last year!

The great thing about locosts is that you can make it the way you want it. I'd say the most important choice is your donor as most chassis' have very similar steering/strength characteristics and pretty much every kit has been used for track bashing.

You'll find that due to the light weight of a seven type car you'll be out accelerating your impreza with a lot less horse power.

Depends what kind of track you want to do, if you just want to do RWYB days and similar then you can go wild, alternatively if you wanted to get into racing you could build/buy a 750 car and get into some real racing!

Don't want to spoil your asperations too much, but a zetec powered kitcar will be slower than your 340bhp sti.

If your new to kitcars then you'll probably be unaware of what a stock zetec 600kg car can do.

Your looking at:

0-60 ~ 6 seconds, your sti will under 5
0-100 ~ 16 seconds, your sti will be around 12
1/4 mile ~ 15's mid 14's at best, your sti 13's maybe even a high 12 with a good launch

So with the power your used too, on the road the zetec will be a bit of a let down, on track it could be different, but that will depend on driver ability.

It may be better through the twisties, but it's not often you can go balls out on the road.

Best bet would be rip the engine out of the smart and fit a busa engine, that way you'll have the best of both worlds

[Edited on 17/1/10 by chris mason]

If you're serious about the track then I'd be more careful about the care taken in getting the geometry spot on and having an MSA legal full cage than saving a few kilos (the chassis is only about 10% of the weight of a racer and less for a road car).

I'd go and talk to procomp personally with your brief.
http://www.procomp.co.uk or u2u procomp.

[Edited on 17/1/10 by iank]

to be fair tho mine's only 240bhp at the wheels and just leaves my mates fq360 behind up untill it starts getting scary in 3 figures,and cost less than half.but then you can only use a 7 style car less than a quarter of the time you can an evo or scoob in our climate.be aware,realistically you'll get very little enjoyable use from one no matter how hardcore you think you are!

Yes, I'd want it road legal, I'm not fussed at all about road comfort though, just the absolute minimum to get it through SVA.

I have no faith in my fabrication skills to assemble the actual chassis myself! I think I can weld a spanner well enough to put one together without too much help though.

Thanks for your very honest opinions about things though. I do want something quite a bit rawer than the Impreza now, and for my "sensible" car replacement to be a bit more sensible than the Smart. Part of the attraction is that I have the impression that these things are pretty easy to upgrade if I feel the need - and something like the Zetec appeared to have quite a lot of tuning options available. I will hold my hands up and admit that my knowledge is mainly based in Japanese car engines; the only obvious contender I can think of from there would be the SR20DET from the 200SX; but Jap engines don't seem to be that popular on first glance?

Ref the 'busa engine in the Smart - if I was going to do anything to the Smart it would have to be a 13b rotary which from rough guestimentation should actually fit pretty well - but that would be nothing more than a novelty car because it would be terrifying to drive!

[Edited on 17/1/10 by Prasius]

quote:

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Originally posted by chris mason
Don't want to spoil your asperations too much, but a zetec powered kitcar will be slower than your 340bhp sti.

If your new to kitcars then you'll probably be unaware of what a stock zetec 600kg car can do.

Your looking at:

0-60 ~ 6 seconds, your sti will under 5
0-100 ~ 16 seconds, your sti will be around 12
1/4 mile ~ 15's mid 14's at best, your sti 13's maybe even a high 12 with a good launch

So with the power your used too, on the road the zetec will be a bit of a let down, on track it could be different, but that will depend on driver ability.

It may be better through the twisties, but it's not often you can go balls out on the road.

Best bet would be rip the engine out of the smart and fit a busa engine, that way you'll have the best of both worlds

[Edited on 17/1/10 by chris mason]

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Have you thought about the mid engined bec's that are about now, the MK Midi maybe?

Linky

quote:

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Originally posted by contaminated

quote:

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Originally posted by chris mason
Don't want to spoil your asperations too much, but a zetec powered kitcar will be slower than your 340bhp sti.

If your new to kitcars then you'll probably be unaware of what a stock zetec 600kg car can do.

Your looking at:

0-60 ~ 6 seconds, your sti will under 5
0-100 ~ 16 seconds, your sti will be around 12
1/4 mile ~ 15's mid 14's at best, your sti 13's maybe even a high 12 with a good launch

So with the power your used too, on the road the zetec will be a bit of a let down, on track it could be different, but that will depend on driver ability.

It may be better through the twisties, but it's not often you can go balls out on the road.

Best bet would be rip the engine out of the smart and fit a busa engine, that way you'll have the best of both worlds

[Edited on 17/1/10 by chris mason]

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I don't agree. I think the average zetec 7 will be quicker than that. None are truly standard by nature of the exhaust, and most have at least a decent set of carbs and an aftermarket ECU.

Additionally I don't think it's just about the speed - it's a totally different ride from an STI. I don't see how you can compare the two really - you pay your money and take your choice. I'd love a scooby, but I wouldn't have one to drive as an event at the weekend like I do the Tiger.

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if i were you i'd get out to afew shows this year and talk to the manufacturers,make up your own mind,ask them realistically how much work,skills are required.there aren't any cheap kits you can just bolt together out there!depending on what your confident to take on maybe a good 2nd hand car with a naff engine and engine swap,add your own style to it might be a cheaper,easier or quicker route.all depends how much you want to stand back and say 'proudly i built that' i guess

Well I was looking at SDR Motorsports V-Storm WR3 yesterday at Autosport which started off as a BEC, and would potentially allow me to use the engine out of my Impreza as it is. However, there is quite a big (comparatively) price premium there.

I'd like something a bit more torque-y than I'd imagine a BEC to be. I have the impression they might be like an S2000 which is a driving experience I'm not particularly fond of!

While it's a way off, Newark is only just down the road so I think I'll pop along later in the year.

[Edited on 17/1/10 by Prasius]

I think a mid engine kit may be the way forward quite a few coming onto the market these days.

not sure on chris's estimate on performance of a zetec as most would have throttle bodies or twin webers.
i remember running my tin top at santapod (e30 bmw) which was 170bhp and weighed around 1000kg (was stripped out) and the best run i done was mid 14's i would expect a 600kg kit with similar power to be in the 13's poss high 12's with right tyres.
i remember a guy running a robin hood with a tuned pinto and he run 13's all day

[Edited on 17/1/10 by dlatch]

I was having this conversation with Ivan from Pro comp the other day, we think a 2nd hand Westfield is the best way to go, you can set them up to go really well AND it will be worth something if you decide to sell. I think the Puma 1.7 zetec is a good cheap well-supported engine (although mine is a 919 blade)

quote:

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Originally posted by hicost blade
I was having this conversation with Ivan from Pro comp the other day, we think a 2nd hand Westfield is the best way to go, you can set them up to go really well AND it will be worth something if you decide to sell. I think the Puma 1.7 zetec is a good cheap well-supported engine (although mine is a 919 blade)

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you say newark is just down the road? Where abouts are you from?

I agree with that as a tentative way in. You won't lose money on a westy. Funny really, the first 7 I ever went in was my sister's westy. It had a 1600 cvh lump and to me it felt like the fastest car in the world. That's my point really - I think if you jump out of almost any tin top it'll feel like that.

quote:

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Originally posted by hicost blade
I was having this conversation with Ivan from Pro comp the other day, we think a 2nd hand Westfield is the best way to go, you can set them up to go really well AND it will be worth something if you decide to sell. I think the Puma 1.7 zetec is a good cheap well-supported engine (although mine is a 919 blade)

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Just to add in to the zetec conversation... I have a puma and the engine is excellent. 100% recommendation and even though it might not be as interchangeable as the standard zetec's. I've gone down standard 1.8 zetec route but if i could change i probably would....

Hi check out the new one from Road Runner Racing its the dogs bol--------s

I don't think an sti would do a 12 sec 1/4mile either, mid to high 13's.

There's plenty of choice around, i've just been through the same process and decided on a GKD Legend 6, the chassis won which kit car of the year/best handling etc when fitted to the evolution and this is a further improved example.

I'm using a m3 engine and bmw running gear, another reason I went for the GKD as ford stuff is getting thin on the ground and you can't beat 15 years of development can you?

if your building from a kit I think customer support is worth its weight in gold, so look/ask around and you'll get a realistic feel for how companies look after you after you've gave them your cash.

quote:

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Originally posted by franky
the chassis won which kit car of the year/best handling etc when fitted to the evolution and this is a further improved example.

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I think I'd go for the 2l Zetec simply because it gives me more room for tuning/modification in the future.

I'm near Lincoln.

I won't go into what the STI can and can't do - it's a great car; but I feel a need to somehow progress. As I really should get a sensibly sized car for my normal needs, that means that my toy car is going to have to become the small one.

[Edited on 17/1/10 by Prasius]

http://media.turbosport.co.uk/2007/9/2007091420346156617199.gif

1700cc of pure aluminium vvt power, this is the way i should have gone.

A narrow se westie can be had for £4500 and you could sell the inevitable crossflow to buy the bellhousing to convert the type 9 to fit the zetec se.

I don't wish to start an argument AT ALL, but what was it up against in the best handling tests, and how was it judged?

If people don't believe my figures, then get yourself along to Santa Pod on the 7th of March with your Zetec Powered cars. link here

I wasn't making the figures up, they're available somewhere on this forum, from a Drag Day i Organised in 2006, iirc the best time for a zetec was mid 14's and that one was running aftermarket management and few other goodies.

I've had the following powered cars and have based my opinions based on what performance each could offer.

893 blade
tuned 2003 R1
2003 R1
S2000
2006 R1

They were all in kitcars, as i stated above the capabilities under braking and cornering were probably better, but straight line performance thrills, nearly all were lacking.

With your Ar5e 4" from the ground and the wind in your face they feel a lot quicker than they really are.

Back to the Op's thread, make of the other post's what you wish, but don't expect too much performance wise from any car engined 7 unless it's got well over 200bhp. (and Probably all zetecs haven't unless they've a turbo strapped to them )

Go for a 200sx powered one and you'll be fine.

[Edited on 17/1/10 by chris mason]

quote:

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Originally posted by franky
I don't think an sti would do a 12 sec 1/4mile either, mid to high 13's.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Steve Hignett

quote:

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Originally posted by franky
the chassis won which kit car of the year/best handling etc when fitted to the evolution and this is a further improved example.

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I don't wish to start an argument AT ALL, but what was it up against in the best handling tests, and how was it judged?

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Coolio - I'd love to see a photo/scan of the test if you can find it, as it's quite a statement (not that I don't believe it, it's just I am doubting it slightly).

I'd be chuffed for them, if they competed against Westfield, Caterham and even all the Locost marques with similar setups and drivers etc to come out best...

Steve

Which Kit Car? Car of the Year 2006 - 11 Page Feature

Performance - 1st Place GKD EVOLUTION"No surprises that the EVOLUTION has this category covered. Its 265bhp is delivered with a hammer blow efficiency". "The GKD takes your breath away".

Handling - 1st Place GKD EVOLUTION"The GKD has the composure to make the most of the power on tap". "A confidence inspiring car, you can't ask for more".
Driving Position - 1st Place GKD EVOLUTION"... you sit well down in the EVOLUTION, with the tops of the doors level with your shoulders. It gives you a cosy and secure feeling...". "Best driving position of the day by far".

Practicality - 1st Place GKD EVOLUTION"I could probably live with this one seven days a week...". "Little wonder that the EVOLUTION once again came out on top in this category".

Value For Money - 1st Place GKD EVOLUTION"... this high performance sports kit car looks good value".

Summary - 1st Place Overall GKD EVOLUTION"This is a thoroughly modern car which, currently has little else in the way of competition".

Which Kit Car Magazine - January 2007


These are the 5 out of 7 bits it won, the chassis has been improved since, however it wouldn't win any marks for Practicality marks in the legend guise as its still a 7 style car.

don't think mine will be ready for march 7th but i will certainly be taking it to the pod this year.

why on earth they got passengers now for 1/4 mile
don't see the point there at all unless its so they can run dragsters with two seats

quote:

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Originally posted by Prasius
I think I'd go for the 2l Zetec simply because it gives me more room for tuning/modification in the future.

I'm near Lincoln.

I won't go into what the STI can and can't do - it's a great car; but I feel a need to somehow progress. As I really should get a sensibly sized car for my normal needs, that means that my toy car is going to have to become the small one.

[Edited on 17/1/10 by Prasius]

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What about a Riot SE, uses the 1.7 zetec engine, mid-mounted, a bit of tuning and you should see 150hp-175hp of light weight performance. should be quick!!

If you like the look of the sylva riot (or spectre) then Jeremy Phillips is based in Horncastle, so if you wanted a trial I'm sure you could pop over quite easily. I visited him in his industrial unit in Horncastle and ended up drinking tea at his house and looking at the mock ups for the spectre.....
Regards
Hugh

Have you considered a BEC? I'd suggest getting a ride in one before ruling them out. Don't let the percieved lack of torque put you off because although bike engines don't make much torque at the crank, they have a torque multiplier in the form of a primary reduction gear. This makes it difficult to compare CEC torque with BEC torque.

With a BEC you get a powerful, lightweight package with a sequential gearshift as standard and 12,000+ rpm redline (depending on the engine). The high revving nature may not be to everyones taste but IMHO they give you the best performance/£ straight out of the box.

As Chris says though, with your ass four inches from the ground and the wind in your face, they feel a lot quicker than they actually are. Certainly fits your requirements for superlight track/fast road though............

Phil

u2u sent mate!