Hi all, I'm a new member so sorry if this is in the wrong place or has already been covered, please dont go mental like the lunatics/wierdos on Pistonheads and other forums.

Anyway I've decided to build a bike engine '7' and I'm leaning towards an Aries Motorsport LocoBlade and have just a couple of inital questions.

Does anybody know if the Aries Motorsports cars use the standard 'Locost' suspension geometry at the front?

Obviously the rear being double wishbone is not 'locost' but does anyone know what the geometry is based on? or am I wrong on this?

Secondly does anyone know of/run/have a link to an archive of drawings or CAD models of things like wishbones/uprights/roll hoops etc?

I would like to be able to look at drawing and CAD so I can fabricate my own parts and do some development myself.

Cheers

Welcome to the madhouse
Plenty of lunatics and weirdos here too but in a good way.

Not sure how much help i'll be but someone will be along to help soon.

Looking at the pictures on their site it would appear the car has mk3 tina front uprights and sierra rear hubs in a fabricated upright + sierra diff.

The front suspension looks 'locostish', Chris Gibbs haynes roadster book has all the plans to build your own irs and front suspension if your interested, all based on a single sierra donor

I am not sure if there is a central bank of CAD files though it has been talked about many times. There are bit and pieces floating around everywhere.

That Aries car looks very familiar, did it used to be called something else? Shawspeed ????



[Edited on 7/8/10 by liam.mccaffrey]

Aries ne Stuart Taylor

IIRC you can have it in live axle ot IRS form (may be wrong though).

Have you slso looked at Procomp's LA Locost? worth investigating if you haven't.

I've had a quick look at the LA Locost, seems good but quite pricey.

I like the idea of an Aries for a number of reasons, it's competetively priced, allows room for some development and Steve was really genuine and helpful.

If anyone has any links to any useful drawings or CAD files then it would be much appreciated, particularly suspension and and drivetrain mountings.

Hi

"I've had a quick look at the LA Locost, seems good but quite pricey."

Yep but then it doesn't need the chassis cutting and re straightening. Or the rest of it sorting. It is good to go and win races straight out the box. But there's the problem. I only sell them to those that are serious about building them to go race or road and trackday seriously also.

Cheers Matt

Alright mate, dont get your knickers in a twist. Calm down have a cup of tea and stop acting like and internet loon.

I have actually been trying to decide between price vs quality and whether to go the other way and save longer and spend a little more... now the decision seems a whole lot easier as I wouldn't want to by from someone who rants at people on the internet making simple observations.

Nice work

Hi

Didn't see any ranting mate. Just agreeing with you on the fact that the LA Locost is more expensive and giving you the reason why. If you want simple observations take a tape rule with you and go measuring wheelbase dims on either side of demo cars of various manufacturers when you have a look.

The only other issue is that i only sell the LA Locost to competitors in the Locost Championship. For anything else i sell the LA Gold. Mind that costs a bit more than the LA locost but again there's a very good reason why.

Cheers Matt

PS. Just in case people think i am having a go at Aries. It is the only Locost / cheaper end of the market Seven that i actually recommend.

[Edited on 9/8/10 by procomp]

quote:

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Originally posted by procomp


PS. Just in case people think i am having a go at Aries. It is the only Locost / cheaper end of the market Seven that i actually recommend.

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Going back to your original post:
I don't think that the Aries front end is quite "book" as I compared the measurements to the RC book when I was going to get some new wishbones fabricated. I guess, unless someone has drawn their own up, the only drawings are probably the property of Aries and I doubt that they would be available for general distribution.
As for the back end on the Locoblade (IRS), well it consists of fabricated upper and lower arms with a fabricated upright with a Sierra bearing carrier bolted on. I would doubt that it is based on anything other than some drawings.
With respect to Procomp's comment regarding their cars being straight and others needing remedial work but recommending the Aries as a low-end chassis... It doesn't mean that it is perfect.

Hi

Why did i say the Aries chassis needs straightening. Well that's because it has jigging problems from left to right.

I cant be bothered. well if you where to calm down i might be bothered but you clearly have an issue with a direct reply to you statement above. And now this thread is going no where so ill leave it at that.

Bad impression. Well i guess a no BS direct to the point attitude does upset some. But it does ensure that the product sold and service is also no BS.

Best of luck with your project.

Cheers Matt

Yawn, I only say it like I see it. You certainly know how to put people off.

Hi everyone,

First post just here but there is a reason, I'm also thinking of buying a Aries and was very surprised with the comments.

I am still making my initial research but I had a drive in STM locoblade and really liked it.

Anyway 3 things:

-thank you for the help in future posts
-pardon my english but i'm from Portugal
-procomp - any real knowledge to make those statements(examples). And any opinions on other builders for the same money.

Regards

J.M.A.

Hi

The chassis jigs are not accurate. The chassis will have either 10-15 mm difference from one side to the other depending on witch jig the chassis came from.
However as i have said of the Book chassis on sale in the general market the Aries is the better one available. And is the one i recommend on the budget level compared to the others available on general sale. It has better suspension geometry and all small problems can be overcome.

Other than that just buy a Westfield.

Cheers Matt

10-15mm! thats not a jig its a barn floor, 1.0 - 1.5mm might be acceptable at a push but not half an inch

Hi

Yep that's right. But believe it or not that's better than the majority of kit manufacturers. And people wonder why i go on about chassis accuracies and wheelbase differences and ask people to get a tape rule out and have a measure of there cars and also manufacturers demo cars.

Cheers Matt

Matt,

I am staggered, I have been welding things in jigs for years and the widest limits I have ever known is 40 thou" - I checked my own chassis with trammels at every welding stage and kept the tolerances at less than 1mm.

Even production car repair tolerances are less than 4mm in non critical areas and 2mm in suspension pickups.

Hi

Like i say people wonder why i keep going on about it. It's also why even when some of these manufacturers use jigs for front suspension they cant get castor to be within 3 degrees on either side. !!! And that's visible by eye no tape rule needed.

Cheers Matt

It does not take a lot of inaccuracy at a suspension mounting point to generate 15mm of error at the outer edge of a wheel rim!

Could even be a bit of one side error forward and the other is error rear! Then there's the wishbones of course...................!

quote:

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Originally posted by Strontium Dog
It does not take a lot of inaccuracy at a suspension mounting point to generate 15mm of error at the outer edge of a wheel rim!

Could even be a bit of one side error forward and the other is error rear! Then there's the wishbones of course...................!

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I think we're getting a bit pernickerty here.

I dont want to put words in Matts mouth but my interpretation of what he wrote (and what he said to me when I was at his workshop) was that with an Aries chassis one or two have been know to be 'bent' whereas Matt won't let one out of his sight unless he knows its spot on. Whether or not this is true I have no evidence of, all I can say is that my Aries chassis has caused no issues and Matt was able to do a full alignment with no major issues.

Having had a good look at one of Matts cars I can say that it is noticeably of a higher standard than the Aries one, but Matt will take the best part of £2k off you for a fully caged chassis where Steve will have £800.

I am happy that I got what I paid for with my Aries chassis and I'm sure Matt's customers are happy with theirs.

I'll have a measure for you on the wishbone front over the weekend if you'd like?

Adam posting after 10pm - must be school holidays!

quote:

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Originally posted by Mark Allanson
Adam posting after 10pm - must be school holidays!

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quote:

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Originally posted by phelpsa
Matt will take the best part of £2k off you for a fully caged chassis

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Hi

2k for a chassis. That is definitely putting words in my mouth. 2K it what it would have cost me per chassis to have them made by one of the UK's leading chassis manufacturers. Lol

Think you may find by running through our price list that our race Locost kit package is Less than £600 dearer like for like.

Cheers Matt

Looking back at all the problems I have had getting the wishbones to fit, never mind getting them to point in the right direction, I think some manufactures have got the words symmetrical and asymmetrical the wrong way round.
10-15mm? I wish

Sorry Matt, must have misunderstood what you told me (i did have a look at your site and though £2k for a chassis with your FIA cage was in the ball park according to your prices on there). I think the Aries one comes in at a bit under £800 too. Adjust the figures slightly but the point still stands.

From what i recall that point was: you gets what you pay for.

[Edited on 20-8-10 by phelpsa]

Back to the original topic and not petty mud slinging....

...does anybody have any relevant CAD files for Locost/Aries cars?

I'm starting to work on my designs now that my CAD box is up and running again.

I don't think that there are many (if any at all) about in the public domain. There are some drawings about (Locost, not Aries) but they are generally available as pdfs.
Good luck with your project.

Hi

There are no real Cad drawings for an Aries chassis. And a book locost chassis is not the same as the Aries as the chassis uprights where moved to gain better geometry and chassis bracket positioning.

Cheers Matt

Ooooh, i'm curious where they were moved too now (And if i can have another excuse for slowing down my build by having to move mine!)

Hi

Lol i wouldn't wory too much Mike I just moved the top front frame back and the uprights around to enable the brackets to sit better on the prototype chassis. Gave the required castor and more room for the mounting of an anti roll bar behind the rad.

Cheers Matt

Bloody Hell!....as somebody who was considering a aries build....where the hell do i go from here? If its true these chassis are not straight.............are they all crap?.wesfield,gbs zero,mk, etc.

I work in engineering and use micrometers,verniers, an tape measure,doesnt anybody else??? oh and a spirit level,god help us!

No they are not crap. It's all a matter of degree.

If you are really concerned about getting the last mm of accuracy then you need to build your own.

Oh its degrees as well as millimeters is it?......My only welding skills are using a arc welder and i dont think that qualifys. so its okay to have atwisted chassis then? I always thought if you built a jig and cut everything correctly,and Tack welded initially,allowing for distortion etc you wouldnt be far out......or am i being nieve......1015mm seems a bit much.

I'm curious how far out my home build chassis is - perhaps in a year or two when i get on the road i'll find out (once i've been to procomp).

Will give me a nice winter upgrade (Which will take 2 or 3 years). For road cars don't stress too much - as matt says, its the kit he prefers out of the others.

(had a drink or three - just pointing out in case i've miss quote matt)

No im only playing to the gallery, im only looking for a fast road tourer+ occasional blat on some airstrip,but it did come as a bit of a surprise to how much some chassis were out

I thought one of the advantages of use brazing rather than MIG welding is it can be easier to produce a dimensionally accurate tube chassis, as less heat distortion, ease of tacking and making complex joints, as well as the ability to repair. Also a brazed chassis should have less welding stress built in (and in theory such welded, not brazed, structures need heat treating to remove it). Do need accurate close gaps in joints for brazing though.

Apart from ease of using MIG, the cost of kit and what Champion's book suggests, I've wondered why all Locost chassis are all welded not brazed? This is unlike all Lotus and Caterham 7s made by Arch Motors (until recent metric chassis made by Caged on a computerised welding jig) as well as Mallocks and other steel tubed racing cars, including homebuilt 750 Formula cars. Maybe cheaper for Locost chassis manfucturers to use MIG?

Is the art of brazing is lost, and no-one wants a live flame or exciting gases in their garage?

Cheers
Mike

[Edited on 28/2/11 by Mike Wood]