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what did you use to clean chassis tubing?
tigris - 6/10/04 at 10:12 PM

I used a type of brake degreaser, just wanted to ask around to see what's best to clean of the oil that comes on tubing from the factory?

JoelP - 6/10/04 at 10:21 PM

cellulose thinners works well, one cloth to put it on and a clean one to wipe it off. plus some elbow grease!

Chris_R - 6/10/04 at 10:30 PM

white spirit should also work, but won't evaporate as quickly as cellulose thinners.

blueshift - 6/10/04 at 10:48 PM

spirit wipe works nicely as a degreaser in my experience. it's kind of what it's for. got some when I was spraying things, from a paint factor. dunno if it's any better than white spirit though

Hellfire - 6/10/04 at 11:51 PM

We used cellulose thinners too - eventually came down from the 'high'. Use in a very well ventilated area!!!

MikeRJ - 6/10/04 at 11:56 PM

I've always found white spirit leaves a slightly greasy residue. Cellulose thinners is my solvent of choice for cleaning most things (except plastics!).

JB - 7/10/04 at 06:41 AM

Celly thinners here too.

Do not forget to clean the inside, also, before welding.

JB

DaveFJ - 7/10/04 at 08:02 AM

said it before..... MEK

nasty stuff - use in a VERY well ventilated area but you wont find anything better
This stuff could de-grease Tony Blair


Here

[Edited on 7/10/04 by protofj]

type r1 - 7/10/04 at 08:40 AM

guys,

cellulose thinners is carbon tetrachloride (CCl4), i think.

very good solvent, but a hydrocarbon, just the same. (for hydrocarbon read: carcinogen).

as hellfire says, use in a well ventilated room and try not to get the stuff on your hands.

regards,

dom.

James - 7/10/04 at 09:11 AM

I used cellulose thinners. Worked a treat.

£5 for 500ml at Halfords. £9 for 5lt at motor factors!

James

mangogrooveworkshop - 7/10/04 at 09:38 AM

Make sure that you keep it well away from any sparks and welding by storing it outside or in a shed away from the garage!!!!

Terrapin_racing - 7/10/04 at 10:14 AM

Most cellulose thinners are petrochemical based - Toluene/Xylene etc and it effectively dilutes any grease / oil and allows you to wipe it away. This is 90% effective, but if you are a real perfectionist I would then recommend a good wash down with a true degreaser such as decorators sugar soap detergent. Then completely wash the chassis down with water. If degreasing is effective the surface rust will start to form quite quickly (several hours). This is when I then wash the chassis down with metal ready

http://www.frost.co.uk/item_Detail.asp?productID=8229

Allow to dry and then prime / topcoat

paulbeyer - 7/10/04 at 10:42 AM

Someone told me that cellulose thinners makes a good octane booster . I don't think I'd try it myself but is it true?

timf - 7/10/04 at 11:05 AM

it does make a good octane booster but one problem is if mixed in to larger quantites it reacts with the benze in the petrol to produce trinitrotoluene which has an interesting effect when ignited

Terrapin_racing - 7/10/04 at 11:09 AM

I would NOT suggest that a person use the following fuel mixtures without considering the detrimental effects on your engine, vital engine components (O2 sensor, etc), and other potential damage. That said, .

Formula #1 - Toluene
R+M/2.........114
Cost...........$2.50/gal
Mixtures with 92 Octane Premium
10%...........94.2 Octane
20%...........96.4 Octane
30%...........98.6 Octane
Notes: Common ingredient in Octane Boosters in a can. 12-16 ounces will only raise octane 2-3 *points*, i.e. from 92 to 92.3. Often costs $3-5 for 12-16 ounces, when it can be purchased for less than $3/gal at chemical supply houses or paint stores.

Formula #2 - Xylene
R+M/2.........117
Cost...........$2.75/gal
Mixtures with 92 Octane Premium
10%...........94.5 Octane
20%...........97.0 Octane
30%...........99.5 Octane
Notes: Similar to Toluene. 12-16 ounces will only raise octane 2-3 *points*, i.e. from 92 to 92.3. Usually mixed with Toluene and advertised as *race formula*.

Formula #3 - Methyl-tertiary-butyl-ether (MTBE)
R+M/2.........118
Cost...........$3.50/gal
Mixtures with 92 Octane Premium
10%...........94.6 Octane
20%...........97.2 Octane
30%...........99.8 Octane
Notes: Oxygenate. Very common in octane booster products. Has lower BTU content than toluene or xylene, but oxygenate effect makes the gasoline burn better and produce more energy.

Formula #4 - Methanol or Ethanol
R+M/2.........101
Cost...........$0.60 - $1.75/gal
Mixtures with 92 Octane Premium
10%...........94.3 Octane (Methanol)
10%...........94.7 Octane (Ethanol)
20%...........Not Recommended
Notes: Methanol is wood alcohol. Ethanol is grain alcohol and found in Gasohol in 10% ratios. Both alcohols are mildly corrosive and will eat gas tank linings, rubber and aluminum if used in excessive ratios. Main ingredient in "Gas Dryers", combine with water.

Formula #5 - Isopropyl Alcohol and Tertiary Butyl Alcohol
R+M/2.........101
Cost...........$0.60-$1.50/gal
Mixtures with 92 Octane Premium
10%...........94.5 Octane
20%...........Not Recommended
30%...........Not Recommended

Notes: Similar to Methanol/Ethanol. Isopropyl Alcohol is simply rubbing alcohol.

Sample Mixture
To make your own octane booster, it is easiest to make up a large batch, and then bottle it up in "dosage-size" uses.
Below is the basic formula of one of the popular octane booster products. To make eight 16 ounce bottles (128 oz = 1 gal):

100 oz of toluene for octane boost
25 oz of mineral spirits (cleaning agent)
3 oz of transmission fluid (lubricating agent)
This product is advertised as "octane booster with cleaning agent *and* lubricating agent!". Diesel fuel or kerosene can be substituted for mineral spirits and light turbine oil can be substituted for transmission fluid. Color can be added with petroleum dyes.

Rob


TNT - how come our Aromatics unit is still here then??
It blends Toluene, Xylene, Benzene and many other wonderful hydrocarbons?

It's not that simple to make TNT!

[Edited on 7/10/04 by Terrapin_racing]

timf - 7/10/04 at 11:38 AM

i should have been more specific

the tnt is formed when the toulune and benzene are combined with nitrogen oxides produced in the combustion process. and with elevated temps.

type r1 - 7/10/04 at 03:00 PM

rob,

thanks for that.

interesting reading.

you say most cellulose thinners are based on toluene/xylene. do i stand corrected with regards to the CCl4, or are some thinners still based on it?

oops, just realised. CCl4 doesn't have any hydrogen in it, so it can't be a hydrocarbon. doh!

regards,

dom.

[Edited on 7/10/04 by type r1]

wilkingj - 9/10/04 at 09:02 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Terrapin_racing
Most cellulose thinners are petrochemical based - Toluene/Xylene etc and it effectively dilutes any grease / oil and allows you to wipe it away.

http://www.frost.co.uk/item_Detail.asp?productID=8229


Please Please, PLEASE take note.

Toluene and Xylene which are the common ingredients of Thinners, are NASTY. They will be absorbed by the Skin and can attack the nervous system (locally) amongst other parts.

9 years ago I got Guillain Barre Syndrome (GBS). I was attacked by Toxic Green Algae, in my case from my Patio / Drive by using my new pressure washer. Now when ever I use thinners (or any solvent based liquids), even in low quantities and fairly well ventilated areas, I can feel the effects. ie I am very very sensitive to this. If I overdo it, I start to stumble and cant walk properly, and cannot concentrate. Its not very nice for me. So even in small quantities, I can vouch for the effect it can have on the nervous system. You FIT guys, probably wont notice it, but I do!.

All I am trying to say is, please be careful, and use carefully in VERY well ventilated areas.

Have a read of this website page, how GBS affects people, then you will know what I have to put up with.

GBS Website

You probably wont get this, but Toluene and Xylene, can attack the bodily systems / tissues, and the results are not always nice. Just test this by looking what it does to a Laytex Gove. (go on Test it! - What you dont even wear Gloves against grease contamination!)

Building and playing with cars is fun, but the tools and the chemicals we use need to be treated with great respect.

Sorry to sound a dismal pain in the Ass... but you dont want to end up the way I am. Thats:-
Permanantly tired,
Permanant numbness in my left hand.
Generally weak muscles
NO stamina - 10 minutes of physical work require 15 mins of sitting down to recover.

In the Great Card Game of Life, I dealt myself a Bum Hand, by not taking notice of safety rules (shudda worn a 10 pence paper mask to stop breathing in the Algae).

The view of most of us is:-
It cant happen to me.
Well... believe me.... it CAN.

Sorry to sound sombre but I dont want anyone to go through what I have over the last 9 years. Let alone the spell in the hospital with several Lumbar Punctures, and not even being able to stand up to take a P*ss in the loo, or hold the teaspoon to stir my tea. I am much better now, but not totally recovered. I dont expect I ever will recover 100%.

Best Regards and stay safe.

Geoffw.

madforfishing - 10/10/04 at 07:01 AM

Jeeez Geoff, that's a real eye-opener.
I remember years ago when I first join the RAF health and safety was an option, rather than the norm. They had 'Crown Immunity' to protect them from the backlash that H & S implementation created. Nowadays it's very different.
Back then we'd use Trichoflouroethene (Trike) to clean everything from circuit boards to the rear wheel of my GSXR1100. Boy does it shift grease too!
If I knew then what I know now about that stuff I'd have thought twice.
On the same note, I still can't believe how many people I see tack welding without a welding mask and grinding without a dustmask or goggles, mad .
So what was the non-toxic substance of choice for cleaning steel in the end?

wilkingj - 10/10/04 at 09:27 PM

Yes, Its not nice.
We all do these things, but until something nasty happens to you, you dont think about it.

I still use thinners, and Brake cleaner, damn good chemicals. However, I am a lot more cautious, its Laytex gloves (and Nitrile ones) when handling lots of thinners or chemicals or grease.
You just cant bee too safe these days.

Once the problem occurs there is usually no way back. ie Whats done, is done, and you have to live with it from then on.

My purpose and thoughts are not to let it happen to others, by making people aware of the dangers.

Best Regards

Geoffw

Mark Allanson - 10/10/04 at 09:44 PM

I have no real heath issues with thinners except that I am now sensitised to it. A strange condition, I have no normal symptoms, except that I cannot get close to any areas where thinners are being used.

If I go into the paint mixing room for more than about 45 seconds, I get dizzy, then nausious, I cannot breathe, and, on one occasion only - I feint.

This is after years of painting, its a real shame as I was really good at it, I also used all the correct HSWA gear, but its not nice stuff

Always use the best safety gear you can get,. and don't take any chances

Peteff - 10/10/04 at 11:57 PM

I have the same problem with rubberised floor paint. We used to paint the factory floor with it using rollers when I worked. I woke up in the night gasping for breath, like drowning. I didn't associate it with the paint till next time we used it when it laid me up for 3 days. Having had TB I am careful with dust and stuff and use a mask for grinding but I don't have a problem with celly.

Mark Allanson - 11/10/04 at 08:12 PM

My car is almost ready to be painted. I dare not paint it myself, but I have welded up enough apprentices cars to draw in some favours! Their end of year reports are still to be written!!!

drmike54 - 11/10/04 at 08:18 PM

Ouch. This really makes you think doesn't it. I rememmber when I worked in a lab with Vanadium, Mercury Etc. You learn to really respect these things.

Terrapin_racing - 12/10/04 at 08:43 AM

I think you need to be pragmatic here - did you know that petrol has toluene, benzene and xylene in it?

Household bleach can kill
Garden pesticides can too

Be sensible, take precautions - gloves, masks etc. read the COSSH documents on the products you are dealing with.

treat the products with respect etc.....

Accidents usually happen when we take short cuts.

I now regularly use surgeons gloves when dealing with lubricants etc. At £3 for a hundred pair box (local paint supplier) it's well worth it. Don't have to scrub your nails for hours either!

Breathing gear can be hired for two pack paint spraying - or pay a professional and save your lungs ....

you know it makes sense