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Looking at building
Pezza - 4/3/06 at 12:18 PM

Hi there folks

I'm looking at buying a chassis for a build as I can't weld (never tried)
But not to sure what route to go down.
Light weight bike engine or car engine? are bike engine builds considerably more expensive? Is the bike ecu utilised? or will I need an after market jobby such as emerald?
Preferably IRS and able to be a comfy fit for 6'2"
I like the look of the MK Indy, lines are nice and clean, but i've not been able to find much info on them.

Sorry for all the questions, just trying to get some ideas.

Cheers
Ben

[Edited on 4/3/06 by Pezza]

donut - 4/3/06 at 12:27 PM

Not trying to persuade you but good choice of chassis. Best thing for you to do is pop up to MK and have a talk to them. They build more bike engined cars than car engined cars ( i think ) and if you do like the Indy then it would be a very good chassis to use. While you're up there try and get a trip out in one of the cars....but take some spare undies!!

If you can make it to Newlands corner (near guildford) in the summer then one of our chaps ( desyboy ) is building a very nice R1 Indy and i'm sure he will take you out for a spin.

Good luck on whatever chassis you buy, they're all good fun!

MK WEBSITE

[Edited on 4/3/06 by donut]

procomp - 4/3/06 at 03:25 PM

Hi despite what is wrote above after having a brief look around a mnr bec car the other day they seem to be the only people that have half a clue as to what they are doing whith the chassis side of things.

matt ( not connected in any way)

JoelP - 4/3/06 at 03:38 PM

with bike engines you just use the bikes own ecu.

Matt, any details of where MK went wrong to help us scratch builders?!

mookaloid - 4/3/06 at 04:32 PM

quote:
Originally posted by JoelP


Matt, any details of where MK went wrong to help us scratch builders?!


I don't think MK have gone wrong at all, it's just that MNR have developed their chassis somewhat over the last couple of years. I think it is probably the best one out there just now.

Cheers

Mark

Wadders - 4/3/06 at 04:48 PM

Hi Matt
I have a feeling this will be a busy thread
like Joel i'm genuinely interested in the differences between your chassis and the rest, and in particular why you claim it's superior. having studied the pictures posted in the for sale section, although i can see differences, they seem fairly minor compared
with most chassis, although of course i'm unable to see section size/gauge of tube used in construction. are you talking about dimensional changes which improve suspension geometry etc?

ATB
Alan.














Originally posted by procomp
Hi despite what is wrote above after having a brief look around a mnr bec car the other day they seem to be the only people that have half a clue as to what they are doing whith the chassis side of things.

matt ( not connected in any way)

JoelP - 4/3/06 at 05:18 PM

mark, i wouldnt be suprised if the MNR chassis was better (certainly the round t45 shmia sounds nice) but to say mk dont have half a clue implies its actually a bad chassis

Ben, to choose bike or car engine you need to try both, or read up a lot. What do you intend to use the car for? BECs can apparently get tiresome on the roads with long journeys etc, much better on track. Im primarily interested in trackdays, and im currently swapping my xflow for a bike engine.

And if this thread runs off topic as we discuss the merits of one chassis over another, dont worry!

[Edited on 4/3/06 by JoelP]

Pezza - 4/3/06 at 05:46 PM

Thanks for the replies!

I had a westfield a couple of years ago.1760 xflow and have driven both bike and car engined westies, my experiance with other sevens is limited.

I just wasn't sure if bikes engines are a bigger outly on the build as i'm noot lloking to spend more than 6 or 7k all told.
Interested in bike engine route for the attractive power to weight ratio mainly, and as a change from the 4pot car lump I had in me last westy.

Are there many chassis that accept a v8?

Ben

JoelP - 4/3/06 at 05:54 PM

the bigger luego (viento?) does i think, and so will a home made +4 locost chassis.

You can get a zx9 or blade engine from £300.

Mad Dave - 4/3/06 at 05:58 PM

I think that some people lose perspective of what we are talking about here. Its a basic sports car that is not designed to the n'th degree. I don't many manufactures could show you their suspension geometry or chassis calculations. I personally don't think that changing square tube to round tube is development but thats only my opinion.

All the manufacturers produce good cars, my advice is to visit a show talk to them and make your 'own' mind up

[Edited on 4/3/06 by Mad Dave]

Mad Dave - 4/3/06 at 06:12 PM

I've got a large workshop

Jon Ison - 4/3/06 at 06:15 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Mad Dave
I think that some people lose perspective of what we are talking about here. Its a basic sports car that is not designed to the n'th degree. I don't many manufactures could show you their suspension geometry or chassis calculations. I personally don't think that changing square tube to round tube is development but thats only my opinion.

All the manufacturers produce good cars, my advice is to visit a show talk to them and make your 'own' mind up

[Edited on 4/3/06 by Mad Dave]



Here here, lets not get into a "mines better than yours" and "no one else as a clue" The truth is you could if you wanted knit pick faults on ALL of them.

If you choose any of the kits that are regularly talked about on here you wont be disappointed, and on the budget you suggest you will have a very decent car.

shortie - 4/3/06 at 06:17 PM

Just wondering why the MNR is the best chassis at the moment, I know it's definitely a stiffer chassis and has some nice features, not at all saying it's not, quite the opposite as I believe you are probably right having seen a few at shows and spoken to a few people but I am certainly no engineer so any advice on where the differences are would be good in case I decide to build another!! :-)

As for whether to go bike engine or car engine then it really depends on what you are going to use the car for. I have a an Indy with a fireblade engine and if you drive it on the road alot then it is hard work due to the high revs and gearing, and obviously most don't have reverse although I have never found this a problem. I tend to not do more than about 45mins at a time in mine.

If however you are looking for something primarily for the track than a BEC can be really great on track and is great fun and very quick.

To be honest you can get awesome power from a car engine and have it very driveable, something such as a Zetec or XE or a nice 4AGE, or you can go the bike route and just fit and forget and get great power to weight ratio and a very fast car.

BTW, I am in Horsham so very near to you, there are also a couple more people with R1 and Fireblade cars in our area if you want a ride.

HTH,
Rich.

[Edited on 4/3/06 by shortie]

Mad Dave - 4/3/06 at 06:26 PM

quote:

Here here, lets not get into a "mines better than yours" and "no one else as a clue" The truth is you could if you wanted knit pick faults on ALL of them.


In a round about sort of way, I meant something like that

Avoneer - 4/3/06 at 07:15 PM

Dave - what is that in your Avatar ???

Not seen one like that before.

Pat...

Hellfire - 4/3/06 at 07:20 PM

Looks like a chassis to me Pat. Are you not familiar with them?

Phil

marc n - 4/3/06 at 07:58 PM

quote:

I don't many manufactures could show you their suspension geometry or chassis calculations. I personally don't think that changing square tube to round tube is development but thats only my opinion.


i would think most can but wont as people would just copy it,

proper auto deisgn suspension programs are only a couple of grand a year to buy, so would be suprised if most didnt use them ( or at least the string computer route ) just as good but takes a lot longer

i understand your thought re round over box, but the reasons we did it are

1. lighter overall weight even when adding more triangulation over a book type variant
2. nice joins when butted together with a notcher
3. when notched correctly tube joins centre to centre rather than on the side
4. in my opinion it looks nicer

on the jigging front we use a carbench jig ( as used in automotive repair ) that can allow accuracy of 1mm from centre line of the car for all important areas

for those that dont have a jig like that it would be very easy to laser cut jig fixtures to acheive a similar accuracy

please dont take this as an agressive post ( as its not ) hopefully it is informative as that was its purpose

added the last bit due to the recent unpleasantness on recent threads as i am not having a go at any one or anything

best regards

marc

[Edited on 4/3/06 by marc n]

marc n - 4/3/06 at 08:06 PM

in answer to the posters question, take time to visit the manufacturers to see the cars and to compare
sit and do a realistic budget, and pick the one that ticks the most boxes for you
and dont forget to enjoy the build as well as owning the car

marc

Avoneer - 4/3/06 at 11:50 PM

And picking the closest to you on your short list is also sometimes a bonus.

Pat...

Gav - 5/3/06 at 08:55 AM

no no no, all profesionally built chassis suck, home built locosts are better than them all!!....


ahem ill get me coat

Pezza - 6/3/06 at 10:35 PM

The Indy is currently the top runner, i've heard nothing but good things about them so far.
Bike engine also I think, as i've done the car engine bit in the past.
It's going to be predominatly a weekend toy and track car as I have to keep the sensible daily driver for work etc.

I'll have to admit i'm a bit of tart over how a car looks, and the Indy is the only within my price range that fits the bill (shame Dax's are so pricey, they just look mean)

So it's off to build a workshop/garage to build it in as the current garage is so full of work materials and garden bits and bobs it's untrue lol

Been browsing the forums for a couple of years now, and look forward to joing the friendly community of you lot

Ben

[Edited on 6/3/06 by Pezza]

Hellfire - 7/3/06 at 12:53 PM

Good choice and good luck with the build. You won't regret it.

Phil

chockymonster - 8/3/06 at 12:26 AM

I've been going through exactly the same process you are.

I'm down near thruxton so not fortunate enough to be close to any of the manufacturers that interested me.

I spoke to those I was weighing up and decided on MNR and I'm off up to them on saturday to talk about what I want so I know exactly how much I need to find.

Unfortunately my wife is an accountant and wants budgets and all sorts of nasty things that I have to stick to. (Just in case Marc thinks he has my money in the bank )

Pezza - 8/3/06 at 11:58 AM

cheers guys, and Hellfire, your build site was a good chunk of inspiration lol

[Edited on 8/3/06 by Pezza]